Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

earning the right to walk by yourself

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Ft. Lauderdale:
And what I mean by adjustments = if something didn't work or was a little harsh it was stopped.
He obviously couldn't be everywhere and see everything.

Antigen:

--- Quote ---On 2005-01-30 12:11:00, Ft. Lauderdale wrote:

"Greg, Greg, Greg. JU went through the program just like everyone else.

--- End quote ---


But who, other than you, remembers him being in group?

Look, ya gotta understand that a LOT of what we were told was total bullshit.

You probably read that nice note from my brother. (and, btw, I'm not ignoring you, Thom, I'm just a little surprised to hear from you and trying to make a thoughtful response, privately, later)

I remember very well Art's frequent rants about government funding and shrinks that don't know anything. I even remember the grown ups debating the pros and cons of government funding in the parking lot while we were all waiting for either permission to enter the open meeting room or for Group to be dismissed afterward (sometimes, it was hours!) And I remember hearing and fully believing (why wouldn't we?) that Art never accepted any public funding.

But I've seen copies of the grant and reference to it in reports by various very credible newspapers.

Guess what, that whole song and dance was made up out of whole cloth, like much of the rest of the Barker legend.

So just that former Seedlings believe that JU did his time on front row doesn't even approach the level of credible gossip.

Our family was around just about from the beginning. I remember John as a most intimidating presence on staff. But I don't ever remember him on front row. Maybe somebody does. Till they come forward, it's just another unanswered question.


Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause.
--George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President
--- End quote ---

marshall:
Ft. Lauderdale: So you were at the seed before the grant? Wasn't that near the very beginning? If you are so sure about John going thru the program...does this mean you were witness to this? If so, just tell us. (I don't think there's any basis for concerns over breaking his anonymity since the seed is caput and everyone already knows who we are speaking of.)
Were you actively involved with the seed in the later years as well? (I know you moved to atlanta for awhile).

BTW, I think you should understand the basis for so many wild & varied theories about the connections to synanon and speculations associated with the inner workings of the seed. IMO, this stems from the secretive nature of the seed itself. What goes on here, stays here. No talking behind someone's back....and just the general lack of information given to the group as exemplified by that catch-all answer: "It's not important." Barring libby or art writing a tell-all book, there are many questions it seems we alumni will never know for sure. I doubt staff even knew all of this. Art probably figured it wasn't important for them to know.

I agree with you, antigen and others...art had good intentions and wanted to help kids. Of course, we have to remember what is said about the road to hell's source of pavement too. In some ways, art may have been a victim of his own creation. I'm not sure I could maintain a sense of perspective while being the object of veneration the way he was either. I imagine that it would be easy to finally accept that you really were special and have perfect awareness or whatever miraculous qualities people keep insisting upon. Lots of leaders, preachers and gurus fall prey to this sort of adoration.

GregFL:
see, here is the thing. Synanon style techniques existed from the beginning. The toilet seat around the neck, for example. Then along comes Dupon in early 73 with a million bucks..which was a lot of money back then. ALl of a sudden, the seed is a lockdown revolving door synanon. A short time later, the federal funds dry up, and the seed starts loosening up.

No one has explained this. In 73, the seed had a mean edge to it. You couldn't even let your back hit the seat or you got knuckles in the back and/or come down on. It was exhausting.

John may or may not be the key to this, but I sure would like to hear it from him. I have a vague memory of a rap where he said something to the affect that we didn't even know where all this came from and then he mentioned a name of another place and talked about how much harder and how the seed had so much love....it escapes me to this day.

Ft. Lauderdale:
It had to be a methadone clinic.  I lived with JU for about 1 & 1/2 years. No I was not around when he came in but I spoke to others that were definatly there and not staff. :exclaim:

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