the real seed

[Anonymous]

until eventually they were forced to change the name to strait, but notice that for years thye kept their mouth shut about seed. it was like once thye changed the name for them art and libbi never existed when it was obvious that at seed (unlike straight) love made the difference."

I want some of what he/she is smoking.   :rofl:  :rofl:

[90's Guy]

When the seed packed up and closed, ALL OF THEM went to Ft lauderdale. All the staff was hand picked by Art and everything done there was done at the direction of Art.


Greg, you are right, I have since learned that the Seed left St. Pete cause they did not agree with the way that parents wanted things dome their. If Art would have wanted to he would have catered to the stupid whims of rich parents, but he chose to take the hard road and not allow them to distort his programs, which they did distort in the form of Straight. But you know very well that Straight did not have the loyal staff that the Seed did and at the Seed you could not blow holes into the staff sitting onose stools because they lived up to what they talked about. Straight was a business, not a family "that was meant to be together." And you know this Greg!

[Antigen]

You're dead wrong, 90's guy. Seed staff never lived up to their dogma either. You couldn't blow holes in them because there were serious consequences for criticizing staff. Same w/ Straight.

You really think it was just coincidence that Art pulled up stakes right after he lost his NIDA expansion funding? And all that bad publicity in the papers had no effect either? How can you be so gullible?

The one grain of truth to the version you've been told is that the parents and staff who founded Straight did want a kinder, gentler program. So that's just what Mel and Betty told them they would do in order to get their money and time.

But that's not what happened. The first BOD member to speak up about it found himself ruined financially. So the next one to bail out invented a reason; forced haircuts. The argument wasn't about the relative therapeutic value of holding a kid down and taking his hair w/o his cooperation, but the insurance liability. Essentially, the argument was "you'll put someone's eye out!"

But Straight staff and Seed staff were just the same. In fact the original Straight staff were former Seed staffers. They also lived in Staff apartments, worked for less than minimum wage, drove ratty old cars and all the rest.

The really interesting part of the story is what went on behind the scenes. Of course, us mushrooms in group didn't know anything about any of this, and the parents knew very little either. But the funding followed the Semblers. NIDA was prohibited from cutting the checks after the Ervin report, but LEAA just ignored that prohibition and nobody ever made an issue of it.

Bobby DuPont also stuck w/ the Semblers. As late as the early `90's, he testified as an expert wittness on behalf of Straight when they were sued. And he also signed onto an amicus brief written by DFAF (fka Straight, Inc.) opposing Angel Raich. Same MFer who gave Art some millions in NIDA grants is still beating the drums for DFAF.

Here's Wes' blog on DFAF
http://drugfreeamericafoundation.blogspot.com/

They serve so that we don't have to. They offer to give up their lives so that we can be free. It is, remarkably, their gift to us. And all they ask for in return is that we never send them into harm's way unless it is absolutely necessary. Will they ever trust us again?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=18' target='_new'>Michael More

[GregFL]

On 2005-04-15 22:39:00, 90's Guy wrote:

" When the seed packed up and closed, ALL OF THEM went to Ft lauderdale. All the staff was hand picked by Art and everything done there was done at the direction of Art.




Greg, you are right, I have since learned that the Seed left St. Pete cause they did not agree with the way that parents wanted things dome their. If Art would have wanted to he would have catered to the stupid whims of rich parents, but he chose to take the hard road and not allow them to distort his programs, which they did distort in the form of Straight. But you know very well that Straight did not have the loyal staff that the Seed did and at the Seed you could not blow holes into the staff sitting onose stools because they lived up to what they talked about. Straight was a business, not a family "that was meant to be together." And you know this Greg!"

Not really. The seed was more of a personality cult, not a family. Families don't disown each other for having different opinions.

some straight associates are together to this day...they would take great exception to what you say.

In the final result, straight, inc. was the seed, all dressed up for the prom, but without a prom date.

It too failed because the basic premise, like the seed, was a fraud.

[GregFL]

reread ginger's post above. It is spot on. I have inside information to corroborate everything she says about the early straight...

[Anonymous]

Hey Everyone,
I stumbled on this group by accident, but I thought I 'd mention that I grew up a block away from the Seed in Ft. Lauderdale ( I was 10 yrs old in '72). I was on 3rd Ave & 14the Strret, I think the Seed was Andrews and 14th or 13th I think.
What was the Straight? An off-shoot of the Seed or...?
Just wondering,
Michael Chatham

[Anonymous]

People that broke away from the Seed started "Straight" in St. Pete.

I happened to catch the "Montel" TV Show this morning at 6:00AM.  Two sisters from straight and a girl or "chick" from an overseas program and another guy and his Dad from WASP.  I see no similarities between those programs and the Seed what they had to say in refrence to the way they were treated and the way I was.  The Seed offshoots were very bad.

[Anonymous]

They Didn't "break away from the seed"...the seed packed up and left St Petersburg. These were all strong seed supporters, seed graduates and seed parents who tried to Fill the gap that the seed left in St Petersburg, and they just copied the Seed verbatim.

The only thing lacking was the weird little guy with matching shoes and belt.

GregFL

[Antigen]

On 2005-05-05 05:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

I see no similarities between those programs and the Seed what they had to say in refrence to the way they were treated and the way I was.  The Seed offshoots were very bad. "

Well that's funny. Because when I landed up in Straight, it seemed just exactly like The Seed to me, maybe just a tad more hard edged in some ways. And we were told again and again how damned lucky we were that we didn't land up in The Seed. I just kept my mouth shut about that. All I wanted was out and you don't get there by disagreeing w/ staff!

There is something feeble and contemptible about a man who cannot face life without the help of comfortable myths.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic

[Antigen]

Wow, Michael, what was that like? In `73, I was 8 and spent a whole lot of time in that creepy building or waiting out in the parking lot w/ my parents for the Seedlings to be released. When I got back from Sarasota 10 years later, I thought it was so ironic that someone had set up a haunted house in that building. Never went, though. Did you? Was it any good?

There never was a good war or a bad peace.

--Benjamin Franklin, (1773)

[Anonymous]

Ginger,
I can't say I ever went to the haunted house.  Something about a permanent haunted house was a bit weird to me at the time (I understood setting then up around Halloween time...).

I haven't lived there for quite a while (I'm in Brooklyn these days) and my memory of which building was on which corner gets a bit jumbled...

I was pretty naive about drugs at the time the Seed was there (I was about 12) and though my Dad was pretty old-fashioned and narrow-minded, he never bad-mouthed the place as I recall.

It's been really interesting reading the posts here and knowing a bit of what was going on there. It seems there's great disagreement as to whether it was what it professed to be.  What I haven't seen specified was did it work? Cult is an easy word to throw around. In my opinion AA is a cult of sorts. But that doesn't make it necessarily bad.

Was it an effective program? What were the prevailing, for lack of a better word, addictions? my sense is that speed was one, but my drug knowlege is all late 70s.

Could you increase my understanding?

Michael

[Anonymous]

there were no prevailing addictions, Michael. The vast majority of seedlings were not addicted to anything but instead were smoking pot and/or getting in trouble at home. Kids were even senteneced there by the courts for skipping school or shopplifting. Once there, the drug use was greatly exxagerated.  Once in a while an actual addict came in, but they rarely stayed for long. IF they stayed, they usually groomed them for staff and looked up to by the rest of the kids...this had something to do with what the kids today call street cred.

If you are really interested in increasing your knowledge about your childhood neighbor, you only need to read this forum.

[marshall]

Hi Michael.
Art claimed a 90% cure rate, but this figure has never been backed by any objective study that I'm aware of. There's also the problem of criteria for what constitutes effectiveness or being straight. The majority of oldtimers I've known returned to some level of drug use at some point after the seed. Though I don't use drugs, I have an occasional drink, so by one set of standards I would be considered a program failure. How do you count those that completed the program but went on to become heavier drug users or alcoholics...but then at some point stopped using again on their own or via another program? Are these people seed success stories or failures? Lots of gray areas.

[Anonymous]

Right O Right O I mean Right toe!!!!

[Anonymous]

What about your left toe? ::bigsmilebounce::