Author Topic: This abusive cult must be politically connected  (Read 19137 times)

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2005, 01:38:00 PM »
you know what? Not everyone had a good experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.



I admit that there were some things that were not entirely over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.



A TC is governed by the founders, but not by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no concern for governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There was no enforcement of the laws governing what was supposed to be done.



It's much easier to fuck w people if you believe there's an epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then fucked w/ these poor dope sick, addeled soulds by convincing them of some insidious raft of underlying problems. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc. We and we alone (the high priests, practitioners and adherants of stepcraft) know how to manage and control every area of an individual's life and how best to structure society. If only we had a little more coercive power to get everybody working their program!



As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main confesion was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was our last hope of retaining control, as they were about the mature out. And it worked! Just take a couple of months and read over all the new powers and funding granted to us through the federal, state and local faith based initiatives, forced piss testing. Shit, we've even got government funding to spread obvious the propaganda that marijuana is medically worthless and highly addictive.



Today, people are paroled to TC's, we use it as a way to prolong the threat of jail indefinitely



I've seen how DV changed the PR to the times. I've seen how they have to pretend there's an epidemic of crackheads as opposed to the heroin addicts. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. They're already ahead of the junkies and they just don't give a fuck.



So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.



For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you sell the program. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.

[OMFG!!  :eek: I can't even satirize this. I feel sorry for anyone who comes to you thinking you care about them, view them as a person worthy of dignity and respect and that you have good advice for them re: how to get off crack!]

That which does not kill you can make you stronger, but I really never needed to be this strong.



http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/5580/straight.html' target='_new'>Scott Wagner

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2005, 02:54:00 PM »
Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.

(obviously you had a bad experience whether you worked there or was a resident or you would still be working there. I'm going to assume that you left on your own free will either because of money, seeing things you didn't like, etc.. hence my words, bad experience and just to clarify, my term of "young buck" doesn't refer to your age, but at the time in which you were affiliated with DV. If I'm not mistaken you said you worked with DV in 95. I had been affiliated with DV since '82, which meant to ME that i'm closer to the old school style of the way things were done than you were. If that offended you, then i apologize.)

Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.

(Well, i'm proud that you're educated. I'm not on a soap box because i have never experienced DV or any TC as an employee, but hell, they must be doing something right classically educated employees are still there)

Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to

( of course i'm going to see some things through rose colored glasses, i lived it, at some point couldn't see outside it, it was all i knew at the time and i can't apologize for that),

I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact. .
(and just out of curiosity, what if anything have you done about it? or did you just let injustices keep happening until you bailed?)

Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," (never ever did i say what he did was right. That never came out in any of my writing. Maybe you are just too blinded by your hatred of Frank, DV or TC's in general that you need to read between the lines of something that i didn't say)
 they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.

(I personally hated body searches. I didn't agree with them and there were a few times i refused to do them. My alternative was to not be admitted to the program. Look, being subjected to a full body search is/was never okay by someone who didn't know what they were doing. It was a lesson in humility that happened once. When you got there. If you happened to leave (AWOL) and come back, yes, it was done again. For protection of all. You don't see it that way and probably never will. But you know what, the person getting screened has done worse on the streets using drugs, so WTF)

Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.

When i was in DV, it was rare that they accepted anyone who committed a violent crime, who was court-ordered. The problem is that it's the norm now for a criminal to be court-ordered to a TC if they have drug abuse in their history. Whose fault is that, the TC's).

Look as i said before, TC's are not for everyone and definitely not for today's drug users. Everyone who enters a TC seems to be coddled now, even down to the term "hard core drug user" to "substance abuser", what the hell is that all about. and if crackheads and methamp users aren't the worse users, tell me who is?

Tell me something, are you still in social services industry, or did you give it up because you were fighting a losing battle?

Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.

(your conclusion is based on nothing, so i won't even comment on that further. other than to say you have the right to your opinion as i have the right to mine. You see it from a clinical standpoint and i see it from someone whose lived through it. Yeah, we are going to see it differently)

Sad, yes. True, indeed.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2005, 03:16:00 PM »
"The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people. His servitude is strictly objective. "
--Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958

I don't believe in Jesus.
--John Lennon, British songwriter and member of "The Beatles"

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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2005, 03:19:00 PM »
I stand corrected.  You're drinking the Kool-Aid through a CRAZYSTRAW.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2005, 03:24:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-03-27 11:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

and if crackheads and methamp users aren't the worse users, tell me who is?


Remember what you said earlier about crackheads having no heart (as opposed to heroin junkies, who obviously do)?

You've been in this TC culture a damned long time. Don't you remember anything?? That is precisely what we were all told about heroin users (who were all instantly addicted, according to the propaganda, just like the propaganda about crack/meth users today)

Here's some reality based, fact based writing on the actual state of meth use, addiction and treatment from a bona fied, qualified investigative journalist.
http://www.alternet.org/authors/4576/

Not that you'll actually go to the trouble of reading anything that might threaten your faith. But you're not the only one reading.

Oh, and btw, some of my friends are practicing meth and/or h users. Some are virtuosos. I don't approve/disapprove, condone/condemn, endorse/indict everything about any one of my friends. But one thing they all have in common, they all have heart.

Web pages are like babies -- creation involves a level of enthusiasm that does not necessarily carry over into maintenance.
--Joe Chew

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2005, 03:26:00 PM »
okay, i agree with everything you said. Have a pleasant day with your rose colored views of the world.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2005, 03:56:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-03-27 12:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

"okay, i agree with everything you said. Have a pleasant day with your rose colored views of the world."


There you have have it.  

We've run the gamut: From righteous indignance to patronizing to projection (without ever having made a coherent argument).

At Daytop that's called "dopefiend mentality."  Glad to see you still have it after 23 long years of reprogramming.  

Nice to see the program "works if you work it."  

My suggestion is to go back and "Work it (again), you're worth it."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2005, 04:47:00 PM »
I went to the website you suggested. Almost every article that i have read there states the same things that i have in my earlier posts and have agreed with:

examples:
The article Hope for Meth addicts states that treatment methods are outdated. As I stated, you can't treat a heroin addict the same way you treat a crackhead or meth user.

the Article more meth mania and coerced treatment basically say the same thing. You can't treat someone for "substance abuse" that doesn't want to be treated. Putting someone in treatment instead of jail is just a way of keeping them off the streets. They're not serious about their treatment, they don't want to spend time in jail.

That's what i said a number of times.

I never said that anything that DV or another TC did was correct, but i went through it and it helped me. So if i'm brainwashed, so be it.

And to the poster who thinks i need to work it again....

yeah, well, maybe....
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2005, 08:10:00 AM »
bump this thread...
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2005, 01:34:00 PM »
::bump::
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2005, 11:33:00 PM »
I know what you say. I was in Daytop in ny .i am damaged goods. [email protected]
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2005, 08:19:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-06-04 20:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I know what you say. I was in Daytop in ny .i am damaged goods. [email protected]"

Can you tell us some of your experiences that lead you to this conclusion?
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Offline Verbal Razors

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« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2005, 07:35:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-02-11 02:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"This whole fucking website is a cult run by free masons and anti-christs and nazis. Look up Fager's portfolio :smokin: "


Zieg Heil!
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ever fuck with someone who has nothing to lose..

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2006, 07:29:00 PM »
Hi I am Vito Tomanelli from the article.  I was an intern at the Millbrook facility from 1984-85.  Many great experiences and emotional memories that will last forever.  I miss all those days at Millbrook!  Email me to discuss many memorable experiences.  [email protected]
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2006, 07:53:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-02-07 16:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hi I am Vito Tomanelli from the article.  I was an intern at the Millbrook facility from 1984-85.  Many great experiences and emotional memories that will last forever.  I miss all those days at Millbrook!  Email me to discuss many memorable experiences.  [email protected]"


Whatever, idiot.
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