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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2005, 04:39:00 PM »
This so called abusive cult has saved thousands of lives since its conseption back in the early 1960s.I must agree that some staff members are nuckleheads and they don't deserve the trust of those that have been abused or were abusing drugs. Daytop is not for everyone. Perhaps a teenager who is smoking a joint here and there does not have the addictive personality that a hard core drug addict has and therefore should be treated at home by the parents. I think that in the case of this young lady the parents should have been subjected to treatment & not the child. It is clear to me by what i read that this young lady did not have a problem yet.
perhaps a little prevention work at home would work for her.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2005, 09:20:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-03-18 13:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

 Perhaps a teenager who is smoking a joint here and there does not have the addictive personality that a hard core drug addict has and therefore should be treated at home by the parents.


"Treatment" for adolescent experimentation?  You and those who think as you do  are definitely part of the problem.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2005, 09:48:00 AM »
I think if you replaced the words "treated at home" with "properly parented" you're on target.

As a former employee of Daytop (Adolescent Diagnostic Unit), I could easily expound on mistreatment of kids there, but that wouldn't be germane to your comment.  

Parents should do a better job of being involved in thier children's lives, period.  Unfortunately, many parents use Daytop (and other programs) as a "safety valve" for problems they have created for themselves and for their children. They can't clean up their own mess, so they "sweep it under the rug" by sending the child away to a program.

On the outside it's "my kid needs help," but on the inside it's "I can't take this anymore."  Placing the child is simply a means by which to avoid the unpleasant consequences (a child who "acts out") of the parents' own behavior (poor parenting).

The child is first scapegoated (made to bear responsibility of their poor rearing), then neglected, abused, dehumanized and humiliated by the program(s).  BUT, since the parents are almost never aware of these facts ("blissfully ignorant"), to them, the problem has gone away.  

Thus we arrive at statements such as "The program is saving my kid."  For the critical thinker, the translation: "Thank God this is no longer my problem."

This comes as no surprise in a time when the child's teacher does the parenting for him/her for the majority of the day and the television does it for the remainder...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2005, 12:01:00 PM »
Very good, "properly parented" is a much better term to discribe the old it's not my fault.
maybe not. However the child in this case smoked a joint or three and was sent to an intensive residential tratreatment center. not good.
I worked for Daytop Adolescent Re - Entry in Far Rockaway, also worked for The Adolescent dyognostic center @ Fox Run when Frank Lanza(don't like speaking ill of the dead but.....you know the rest) was the area director. I quit because i was tired of beating a dead horse. the amount of stress that i endured did not meet the means.I found that in re entry the kids were way more relaxed and conduted themselves much better. although adolescents will be adolescents. Treated at home was a term loosely thrown around in far rockaway to say don't give us your problem. We deal with serious hard core junkies. It's too bad no one can truly understand the adolescent,eventhough we were all there once. Anyone that has worked as closely as i did with the founders of Daytop knows that their mission to sencearly help those that need help is genuine. Daytop is not an abusive cult...or at least not intentionally. the numbers are the numbers without beds filled funding would not exist, and that's not good for those who care.The adolescent counselors may need to deal with their own frustrations by doing some listening,& not yelling or using abusive, demeaning language.Thank you for your reply.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2005, 12:25:00 PM »
Well, it appears we were working there at the same time, under Frank Lanza (who is dead now, by the way).

The problem I have with your argument is that counselors like myself who are classically educated and degreed and deal with kids the way you suggest we should get ostracized and "squeezed out" of Daytop by the "Daytopians" (people who ascended to their position through the program and who have no real qualifications to assume care of anyone, much less a kid).

The reason that the "Daytopians" are eager to get rid of educated counselors is simple: their lack of qualifications/abilities and the "cult-like" atmosphere make them afraid of outsiders by whom they feel threatened.  That is, they are afraid to be exposed for what and who they are, namely uneducated, unqualified people who cannot find and maintain gainful employment EXCEPT AT DAYTOP.  Frank Lanza fit this bill perfectly.

Now, let me also say that I know and did know a few people from Daytop who were wonderful with their kids.  The low pay, harsh environment and the "Daytopians" brought these folks down and squeezed them out...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2005, 12:26:00 PM »
what drugs are you on
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2005, 12:42:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-03-19 09:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

"what drugs are you on"


Possibly, if I were on some hard-core substances, Daytop's methodology WOULD make sense.  Otherwise, it is what it is: the blind leading the blind...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2005, 01:38:00 PM »
It appears so. Frank & I never got along, I thought his ego & lack of understanding or refusal to understand the  kids was not what Daytop teaches he was do as i say, not as i do, thankfuly, we were taught to conduct ourselves professionally at work and to uphold a higher moral standard outside of work. I was a friend of his boss and although i am a Daytopian as you so eloquently put it he tried to squeeze me out with the rest of the classically educated, degreed bunch. What got rid of me was those weekends alone with the kids who were impossible to keep structured, or controlled - comes to mind. actaully I left because i needed to join the real world. I never had a problem with the mental health staff, never thought of them as outsiders trying to expose me for my lack of education, I always thought we worked effectively together. I unfortunately was a troubled adolescent smoking pot, drinking ( like the young lady we seem to have lost track of) and whatever else was no good for me. I listened to those who were genuine in my opinion and stayed away from those who thought they were better because they were book smart. I was street smart and that with a little common sence went a long way for me. I also care and have a big heart. I have many friends that still work for Daytop,  I left back in February of 1995 I am no longer in the field. I keep in touch with Dan Galegher via email, he's no longer with daytop I was one of his better students in family theropy I was able to connect with most families when others failed or gave up. Back to the young lady she was thrown into the "Concept" without being auditioned for the part. Scary!
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2005, 01:56:00 PM »
Don't worry.  We haven't lost track of the "young lady."  If you go back and read this thread you'll see she suffered as a resident of Daytop and subsequently as a caregiver (MSW) in a broken-down system, and is now looking for a new career.  Funny how we all arrive at the same point, isn't it?

You left in Feb. '95, huh?  I started at the ADU in early '95, so I guess we just missed one another.  I worked with Mike Clifford, George Weisenburger and Hendrick Toney (not sure if the last name's right) who were ALL great guys.

Anyway, I hope you are doing well in your current endeavors.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2005, 03:26:00 PM »
Thanks again for your reply I was the sneior staff over the new guys Mike clifford sounds familiar great bunch of guys there was a girl also foget her name, sorry I had to abandon ship.
I'M doing well Thank you, hope the young lady finds her way.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2005, 05:36:00 PM »
The "what drugs are you on" statement was not ment for you, disfunction j.
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« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2005, 09:55:00 AM »
Wow, I was browsing DAYTOP's website and I saw that Frank Lanza's family was given an award of some kind for Frank, which made me do a search on him to see if he was really departed. So I'd like to tell you a little bit of my experience with DV to maybe try and give you a little perspective. In the end, tho, the one thing that i realized as DV grew was that it was a business and that they have to do what they have to do.

I was a resident of DV as a teenager in the early 80's. I have to tell you that what i have heard hear was very disheartening. When i started DV there were 10 facilities. 40th st (which was intake and headquarters and we didn't even have the entire building full) 409 on ninth Avenue (which was re-entry), Millbrook, Parksville, Swan Lake and the 5 outreaches Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, S.I . (which actually opened later during my years there).

When i went to Millbrook, it was a teenage facility, not like it is now. It had a very homely feeling to it. The staff, the residents and there was a maintenance man, I don't remember his name, but i'll never forget him. He was one of the reason Millbrook felt like home. The neighbors accepted us. There was a little red schoolhouse with two old lady teachers, who were someone's sweet grandmother who baked cookies ( you know the ones you only see on tv or read about) only they were real. Down the back road, there was the pig farm, and the creepy old farmer who used to come up every night to take our "pig bucket" slops from the grill to his pigs.

Now at the time, even though it was a teenage facility, there was never more than 70 residents at a time there, male to female ration about 5:1. I was one of the youngest there at 15, and I was one of three black females at the time.

The Staff: Donna Chadoba, Eddie Cinisomo,Wayne O'Connell, Tony Parks, interns, Vito Tomanelli and Robert Wragg. There was another female, but i can't remember her name.

I was there for about 15 months and during that time, they were building a new facility, now known as Far Rockaway) now my time upstate, had it's good times and it's times. I wore a sig, i wore a stocking cap, i was on something called "poison patrol", i sat on the chair, i sat on the bench, and i was never, ever a coordinator. I sat in extended groups, i sat in marathons, but you something as a teenaged girl, although it was hard, i never felt more love than i did when i was in that facility. When we had pool parties, when we had dances, when we performed on stage for the community, when we went to the community church, and although my real family wasn't with me for X-mas, i was with my family.

The best years of my life were spent in a treatment facility and i made some mistakes, but you know what, DV saved my life. DV made me see things, not at the time, but years later, when i went on to have my own family that if i hadn't entered DV, things for me now just wouldn't be where they are.

I have friends that i made in DV that i still have to this day. Friends that call, hang out with and have grown up with.

Now, as far as the changes, yeah, DV has evolved over the years, i've seen that. I've actually been to a facility (fox run) a few years ago, and it's much different. But you gotta realize that times have changed and the epidemic has changed. You can't treat the underlying anymore, you have to treat the epidemic.

It's funny, when i went to re-entry in FR, I saw the change. Not only was DV dealing with drug abusers, users, or whatever, but they were of a different breed. We're talking crack. There's a difference between treating straight cocaine addict or heroin addict, which DV primarily treated when i was there, than a crackhead, the worst type of SA. You can't treat the underlying problem with a crackhead because an underlying problem doesn't exist.

Now to talk about Frank. I knew Frank personally, and I hated him. But i respected him. I respected what he had done in SL. The recidivism rate in SL was almost nil. And Frank had a lot to do with that. if you talk to anyone from SL or Parksville who was there during Frank's tenure, they will tell you, he was not the person he ended up being.

Yeah, he had an anger problem that totally got worse over the years. I remember seeing him some years ago after graduating, I was at 40th St., visiting Kenny Catoe (Anyone who has been in DV knows KC) and Frank came up to me and said, i know you, i remember you, how's your boyfriend? I looked at him and thought, damn, he wasn't around when i split (one of many times) with a guy from Re-entry), how would he have known that? Turns out, that he kept tabs on me when i was in re-entry and thougth that me and this guy was still together.

Frank, in the last years, i had heard had become a very nasty man. But if you knew him back then, you would understand.

alot of the staff that are there that had been there for the longest time, has had to adjust to many different changes in DV. Changes that are normal for the evolution of time. Times change, people change and it's sometimes, especially for those who went through the program in the 70's and became counselors and are used to the DV was.

I'm sorry that anyone who has had a bad experience with DV had it, but if you were a resident, think about this, if you hadn't gone to DV, even if it was just to Detox, where would you be now.

I'm not sure what this all means, but i saw this and felt that i had to add my 2 cents, to defend what was, not what is.

A Proud DAYTOPIAN
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2005, 10:46:00 AM »
Still drinking the Kool-Aid, after all these years...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2005, 11:46:00 AM »
you know what? Not everyone had a bad experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.

I admit that there were some things that were a little over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.

A TC is not only governed by the founders, but also by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There were no laws governing what was supposed to be done.

It's much easier to treat the underlying problem of the epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then treated the underlying problem. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc.

As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main addition was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was there last hope. And it worked.

Today, people are paroled to TC's, people use it as a way to stay out of jail and don't put in the time they need to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with dealing with the problem.

I've seen how DV changed to the times. I've seen how they have to treat the crackhead as opposed to the heroin addict. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. Those are a crackhead's manipulation tactics. That's all they know.

So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.

For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you treat the person. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.

Now you want to talk about staff. I recall reading someone saying that the reason old school staff are trying to push out the more educated is because they are afraid. And to a point, that person was correct. They are afraid of seeing DV change in a way that's not about the mission. The mission was and still is solid. But laws change and epidemics change.

Hep C is what DV used to have to deal with heroin addicts. Now they also have to deal AIDS. There are all kinds of laws now that says what you can and can't do with someone who had AIDS.

I'll never forget the first person who was diagnosed with AIDS at DV. His name was Sammy. He became the poster boy ( for lack of a better term) but he changed the way DV thought in terms of treating someone who was ill.

Look, i'm not saying that DV and other TC's are the greatest. You get out what you put in. I did my time old school style and obviously had a better experience than you young bucks did, but take it for what it's worth. Look at this way. People in the social services industry are not in it for the money. They go into it believing that they can make a difference. What they find is that the system is so screwed up that they're just one little insignificant cog on that big wheel of bullshit that is every evolving to more bullshit and they see that after time they can do one of two things, go with the program or get out. That's my advice to you, accept the change, chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. One more thing.

So am i still drinking the Kool-AID? Damn right, because i don't have to deal with the bullshit that you spout about your bad experiences and why you couldn't get with the program. So, are u still smoking crack? and tell me, how long was it before your first relapse?
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2005, 01:20:00 PM »
NEWS BULLETIN:  Whooter, the person who sent you to this link, WORKS FOR ASPEN EDUCATION.  See below quote from Whooter admitting his "fiduciary duty" to Aspen Education.  Whooter is an industry troll and not "just a regular parent" as he would try to make people believe.

Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""
When is this supposed to take place?

Well the  announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.



...




How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?


I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved,  this could be misconstrued as Tipping

Quote
On 2005-03-27 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"you know what? Not everyone had a bad experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.



I admit that there were some things that were a little over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.



A TC is not only governed by the founders, but also by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There were no laws governing what was supposed to be done.



It's much easier to treat the underlying problem of the epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then treated the underlying problem. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc.



As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main addition was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was there last hope. And it worked.



Today, people are paroled to TC's, people use it as a way to stay out of jail and don't put in the time they need to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with dealing with the problem.



I've seen how DV changed to the times. I've seen how they have to treat the crackhead as opposed to the heroin addict. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. Those are a crackhead's manipulation tactics. That's all they know.



So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.



For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you treat the person. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.



Now you want to talk about staff. I recall reading someone saying that the reason old school staff are trying to push out the more educated is because they are afraid. And to a point, that person was correct. They are afraid of seeing DV change in a way that's not about the mission. The mission was and still is solid. But laws change and epidemics change.



Hep C is what DV used to have to deal with heroin addicts. Now they also have to deal AIDS. There are all kinds of laws now that says what you can and can't do with someone who had AIDS.



I'll never forget the first person who was diagnosed with AIDS at DV. His name was Sammy. He became the poster boy ( for lack of a better term) but he changed the way DV thought in terms of treating someone who was ill.



Look, i'm not saying that DV and other TC's are the greatest. You get out what you put in. I did my time old school style and obviously had a better experience than you young bucks did, but take it for what it's worth. Look at this way. People in the social services industry are not in it for the money. They go into it believing that they can make a difference. What they find is that the system is so screwed up that they're just one little insignificant cog on that big wheel of bullshit that is every evolving to more bullshit and they see that after time they can do one of two things, go with the program or get out. That's my advice to you, accept the change, chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. One more thing.



So am i still drinking the Kool-AID? Damn right, because i don't have to deal with the bullshit that you spout about your bad experiences and why you couldn't get with the program. So, are u still smoking crack? and tell me, how long was it before your first relapse?



"

Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.

Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident.  I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.

Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to, I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities.  This is not my opinion, this is fact.

Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," they "would understand."  Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter.  Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls.  Open your ass").  Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.

Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.

Conclusion:  You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.

Sad, yes.  True, indeed.
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