Narrowly Escaped, but not the 12 Steps

[Anonymous]

I tried to post under a member name but the forum does not seem to accept my username, not sure why, so please don't think I am intentionally remaining anonymous, if you would like to email me, please request my email address and I will be happy to give it to you.

When I was 19 my parents opted to place me in AARC. They changed their minds at the last minute, and I am so glad they did. It is struggle enough deprogramming myself from Alcoholics Anonymous, I don't know what would have happened had I had to deprogram from a behavior modification program as well.

My mom felt very uneasy the last couple of days before I was supposed to go. I remember shopping in Winners with her and my dad for generic, non-descript clothing (a necessity for entrance), and she flipped. She told me she loved who I was, just not what I was doing at the time. She called the center when we got home and told them I would not be attending. They told her that she needed to understand the ?severity? of my disease, and that it could be fatal. We were disgusted, and grateful that she had made the decision. I love her for it. We have a strong and loving relationship now, and her and I have made that happen.

I am now 27 years old, and I struggle still. I have come to realize however, that so much of my struggles have been a direct result of my involvement with 12 step programs. I have watched most of my hard partying friends simply grow up into fairly well adjusted, productive adults. They did this without the help of AA. I often wonder if I had never been involved with the 12-step racket, would I have just grown up. Instead I spent 7 years of my life feeling even more different than the people around me. I felt like I didn't fit in out here, or in the rooms. I am only now beginning to realize that my problem was never with alcohol, my problem was with me, my self esteem...and I am working on overcoming this so I don't turn to drugs and alcohol as a way to act out. That is what I do, I use to get attention. It is nothing more, and nothing less than this.

I certainly believe that people do have physical addictions to substances, I also believe they can overcome these addictions themselves. I am not negating that AA, or perhaps even AARC has saved lives...I just question what new life these people gain? I am proud to be a strong woman, with strong ideals, and strong opinions I am not afraid to voice. I feel like AA, and programs like AARC stifles the spirit, and the mind. The kids from AARC I saw in the AA rooms seemed entranced. They seemed to be reciting mantras in the room. Witnessing this is actually what helped me decide to distance myself from AA altogether. I remember having lunch with a graduate of AARC, who was a counselor there. I was appalled when she told me my tattoos (I am heavily tattooed), and my "slang" wasn?t really me. Of course they are me. My tattoos tell stories of where I have been, and my "slang" is who I am. Slang, body art, professions, hobbies can all be testament to a persons individuality. I feel so sad when I think of children going through programs like AARC and being stripped of their individuality. I can't help but think there is a lot of talent and beauty being removed from the world because of AARC.

I applaud those who have left AARC and are struggling to reclaim their identity. I am doing the same thing, and find great comfort in knowing I am not alone (as they say in AA) in breaking free of brainwashing. Sure I struggle, I have good days and bad days. I am me though, for the first time in a long time.

[Antigen]

Yeah, some devout practitioner of stepcraft once told my brother that his sense of humor was part of his disease. So my brother spent the next stretch of time trying to be very serious and not make any jokes. Crazy!

Welcome!

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid
of the dark. The real tragedy of life is
when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-01 19:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

I am now 27 years old, and I struggle still. I have come to realize however, that so much of my struggles have been a direct result of my involvement with 12 step programs. I have watched most of my hard partying friends simply grow up into fairly well adjusted, productive adults. They did this without the help of AA. I often wonder if I had never been involved with the 12-step racket, would I have just grown up. Instead I spent 7 years of my life feeling even more different than the people around me. I felt like I didn't fit in out here, or in the rooms. I am only now beginning to realize that my problem was never with alcohol, my problem was with me, my self esteem...and I am working on overcoming this so I don't turn to drugs and alcohol as a way to act out. That is what I do, I use to get attention. It is nothing more, and nothing less than this.

I certainly believe that people do have physical addictions to substances, I also believe they can overcome these addictions themselves. I am not negating that AA, or perhaps even AARC has saved lives...I just question what new life these people gain? I am proud to be a strong woman, with strong ideals, and strong opinions I am not afraid to voice. I feel like AA, and programs like AARC stifles the spirit, and the mind. The kids from AARC I saw in the AA rooms seemed entranced. They seemed to be reciting mantras in the room. Witnessing this is actually what helped me decide to distance myself from AA altogether. I remember having lunch with a graduate of AARC, who was a counselor there. I was appalled when she told me my tattoos (I am heavily tattooed), and my "slang" wasn?t really me. Of course they are me. My tattoos tell stories of where I have been, and my "slang" is who I am. Slang, body art, professions, hobbies can all be testament to a persons individuality. I feel so sad when I think of children going through programs like AARC and being stripped of their individuality. I can't help but think there is a lot of talent and beauty being removed from the world because of AARC.

I applaud those who have left AARC and are struggling to reclaim their identity. I am doing the same thing, and find great comfort in knowing I am not alone (as they say in AA) in breaking free of brainwashing. Sure I struggle, I have good days and bad days. I am me though, for the first time in a long time.

"

I can only speak for myself, and I would never generalise anyone. I did go through AARC. I am in AA. I see AARC graduates with varying degees of success, in and out of AA. As far as it "stripping my individuality", AARC and AA have helped me discover who I am. You mention Tattoos. Both my arms ar covered, as well as my chest and back - and no one from AARC has ever expressed any degree of being "appalled". I am artistic, creative and successfull, and sober for over 10 years. I have had a successful career for years, and have thriving relationships in and out of AA.Tell guys like Noah Levine who wrote Dharma Punx, teaches meditation worldwide, and is heavily tattoed and loves Punk that AA is stifling. I hope you do well, but please, speak for yourself.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe I claimed to be speaking for anyone but myself. I have a right to my opinios, as you do yours. Covered in tattoos, and in AA...in Calgary?? Where have you been hiding out??

Yes, Dharma Punx....

Not only have I read Noah Levine's autobiography...I am aquaintance of his through mutual friends involved in the tattoo industry in California. Many of the people he writes about in his book were people I knew personally, or knew of through close friends of mine. Thanks for pointing it out none the less.

I did not particularily enjoy his book, nor do I particularily enjoy him personally. It is easy to go on a journey of self discovery, and get covered in tattoos when you have a trust fund set up to make it all happen. I digress however.

It always shocks me how easily people will hold someone up as an example or as a role model knowing little to nothing about them. What you know about Noah Levine is what he wanted his readers to know about him.

Yes, it would be dreamy wouldn't it, if one could go from being a perfect bad ass, to a perfect sober buddhist. His book read like a fairytale, because that is what it is.

Try reading Hardcore Zen...I believe it speaks from a more humble, and egoless place.

If you feel that your individuality and your creativity has not been stifled by these rigid and intolerant programs (my opinion)....good for you!! I wish I could say the same for me, but as you gathered from my previous post, I have not had the same experience as you.

I am simply expressing my individualtiy...do you have a problem with that?

[Anonymous]

Oh, and to address your comment about nobody being appalled by your tattoos.

I never claimed she was appalled, I said I was appalled at her reaction to me.

I am happy that you never had anyone tell you your body art, and way of speaking was not you. It made me feel pretty shitty at the time.

[Anonymous]

"I just question what new life these people gain?"
"I feel like AA, and programs like AARC stifles the spirit, and the mind. The kids from AARC I saw in the AA rooms seemed entranced."
 "I feel so sad when I think of children going through programs like AARC and being stripped of their individuality"
"It is easy to go on a journey of self discovery, and get covered in tattoos when you have a trust fund set up to make it all happen"

Judgement & intolerance posed as "opinion" & "expressing my individuality" and "speaking for myself". But hey, at least you don't care what others think of you.

"Covered in tattoos, and in AA...in Calgary?? Where have you been hiding out??"

Hiding out? Hardly. I go to my meeting every week, and have been attending AA functions regularly. The only reason I mention Noah is the fact he is living his life just like anyone outside has the right to. He certainly is not perfect and makes mistakes. As do I. Most people do.

Again, I wish you well, but try not to generalize. Everyone in AA and outside AA has a unique, individual experience. I know plenty of mindless drones outside of AA. But who am I to judge. - Just my "opinion" of course. :smile:
Maybe I'll see you at a meeting some time!

[Anonymous]

I was just making a joke with the hiding out comment....it would have been nice to see someone else that loves tattoos!!

I noticed you copied and pasted some of my statements. Did you notice they began with words like "I feel", or simply just "I". How much more clear could it be that I am speaking for myself? I never claimed these things to be fact...this is just how I feel. Why is this a problem for you?

As for the trust fund comment, that is something that is indeed a fact. Noah Levine was able to travel the world (where he "awoke") using the money from his trust fund. Simple as that.  He stated it point blank in his book. Go back and have a look.
 
Am I personally intolerant to AA, AARC? absolutely. I speak for myself, and nobody else. I have a right to it, and to express myself. There is no posing about it. I spoke my personal truth.

This is what I was talking about in my post. Why do you need to make it out like my opinion is somehow a guise for something else? It is what it is. I found this site and felt grateful that there were others that shared my opinion. I did not come here to attempt to right any wrongs I believe are occuring. Is that what you are here for?

I knew my post would be a sitting duck for someone who doesn't agree with me. All you need to do is say "I disagree, here is why, here is my experience". You don't need to make accusations.  The only judgement and intolerance I have seen here so far has been from you. Labeling me something because I don't share your views is the height of judgementalism in my opinion.

I "generalize" from my own experience. What human being does not assess situations according to their own experience? I am a learning and growing person. Certainly learning from my own mistakes.

You are making a generalization by calling me intolerant based on one post I have written on an internet forum. You don't know me, I don't know you. I don't fault you for it however, as that is what we do. We assess things.

As for seeing me at a meeting. I am not sure why you would write that. Was my post not clear? Were you joking? Were you being smug? Not really clear on that.

[Anonymous]

I stand by what I said - Judgement & intolerance posed as "opinion" & "expressing my individuality" and "speaking for myself".

As far as me being judgemental it is difficult to point out were someone is being disingenuous (sic?) by using statements beginning with "I feel" and "its my opinion" and patronizing or belittling someone else for how they come off in an AA meeting. As far as it only being "my opinion", you seem to find that my statements offend or irritate you, then you should understand that it works both ways. One persons opinion can always be seen as a judgement by others. No one knows your real intentions, they only see your actions.

Do I take offence to someone passing judgement on AARC who has never been through it? You bet. Walk a mile in my shoes first. Your experience in AA is your own, its not for everyone.

As far as Noah traveling on a trust fund - my parents paid for my treatment, and it didn't make it any less meaningful. They also paid for some of my schooling, and same deal.

"You are making a generalization by calling me intolerant based on one post"
"Am I personally intolerant to AA, AARC? absolutely."

Really I was just having some fun, and didn't mean to offend you. You are obviously really bright and my only concern is that too many people write on this board with the intention of making anyone who feels positively about AARC second guess themselves. Provoking and baiting people who are getting on with their lives is silly.

All the best!

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-02 18:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I was just making a joke with the hiding out comment....it would have been nice to see someone else that loves tattoos!!


As for seeing me at a meeting. I am not sure why you would write that. Was my post not clear? Were you joking? Were you being smug? Not really clear on that."

Just kidding, geeeeez!
I'm always up for coffee though!

[Anonymous]

the only reason I would have to go for coffee is to see all these tattoos you have talked about...

[Anonymous]

One anonymous said
"Am I personally intolerant to AA, AARC? absolutely. I speak for myself, and nobody else. I have a right to it, and to express myself. There is no posing about it. I spoke my personal truth."

It's good to hear this.  I have a saying that the one thing that I cannot tolerate is intolerance.  And that is what I think  that anonymous is saying.  Everything I have seen and heard of AARC speaks of intolerance and bigotry. But, hey, in these times that's the zeitgeist, especially in Calgary.  So what do you guys think of the Municipal vote declaring the election of Margot Aftergood being declared invalid.   Suggestions of voting fraud in Calgary even involving MLA Hung Pham ??
Corruption is one of the things I can't tolerate either, and I suspect there's something very corrupt about the fact that AARC now seems to have some considerable support ( to the extent of gaining provincial accreditation) from those wonderful politicians in the Klein Konservative Kabal.)  And now, Heather Forsyth is Minister of Children's Services?  Expect lots more children in care being condemned to "treatment" in AARC without even so much as a hearing.
Seriously, though, any institution that uses the methodology of AARC in violation of every civil rights law in the book should not be tolerated in a free and democratic society, but then, what do I know?

[Anonymous]

To the original anonymous poster...

I liked your post and agree with what you've said. I'd like to point out that I believe AA in calgary has been altered because of the large AARC presence. There has always been so much lingo in AA and in Calgary they've developed new lingo via AARC graduates. And yes, AARC people are speaking a mantra and they don't even realize it! I know I certainly did it for years. What ever happened to people sitting in a room discussing their every day issues helping each other out? Who needs a subject and a reading to get through a day without drinking?

Body modifcation has become a popular way for young people to express themselves and connect with others, even for those who in the long run it ends up being just a phase. I love this movement! I'm also seeing very good things happening with the Straight Edge (sXe) scene! Hearing about the hardcore sXe shows is so encouraging.

I'm glad that you have your independance again; that you're not 12 step dependant.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you. I think part of it is that as big as many would say Calgary is, it is still a small town compared to so many. I don't know if I necessarily agree that AARC has affected all the meetings, it certainly has affected some. My issue is with both AA and AARC regardless. It is all the same for me. I have an aversion to "outside forces" telling people what is right or wrong for them. That is part of my character.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-02 22:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"One anonymous said

Seriously, though, any institution that uses the methodology of AARC in violation of every civil rights law in the book should not be tolerated in a free and democratic society, but then, what do I know?   "

You are correct - What do you know? If AARC is violating civil rights laws call the police, or file a suit. If there is one thing I find difficult to stomach, it is baseless accusations being thrown around. If you are so indignant, then do something! Prove that AARC is such a terrible place in court. So far no one has had the guts to try that.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-12-02 22:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"the only reason I would have to go for coffee is to see all these tattoos you have talked about..."

Sounds good. You can reach me at [email protected]

cheers