Author Topic: How to Save a Troubled Kid?  (Read 5531 times)

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Offline Kiwi

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How to Save a Troubled Kid?
« on: November 15, 2004, 06:15:00 AM »
How to Save a Troubled Kid?

http://http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101041122-782109,00.html

Just what a kid with bipolar disorder needs - a WWASP program! :roll:
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Offline Nihilanthic

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How to Save a Troubled Kid?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2004, 09:25:00 AM »
I sent them a reply via their web based emailer.

I doubt I'll get anything from them though, WWASPS probably either bribed or threatened them, knowing their past in dealing with critics...

When we contemplate the whole globe as one great dewdrop, striped and dotted with continents and islands, flying through space with all other stars all singing and shining together as one, the whole universe appears as an infinite storm of beauty.
-- John Muir

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2004, 11:24:00 AM »
The Carbens used the "gum" rule/consequence as an excuse to bring their son home. Period.  They saw a bit of a change and decided the work was done.  Did they ever get it wasn't about the gum? Regardless, I wish them success in using what they all learned and all is well.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2004, 11:50:00 AM »
I only hope that that kid will be able to pick up the pieces and move on. He is very lucky to be out of there after only four months.
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Offline Watchaduen

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How to Save a Troubled Kid?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2004, 11:53:00 AM »
I told them about the wonderful WWASP school we placed our son at, Bethel Boys Academy, Lucedale, MS.  That during his 3 1/2 days he was beaten, tortured, starved and deprived of sleep, water (dehydration) and bathroom priviledges. I had to ask how that treatment was supposed to help my son in any way?  Also, why is agains the law (a felony) for parents to abuse, torture, starve, etc. their child, but not some complete stranger?
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heryle - My son was TORTURED and ABUSED at Bethel Boys Academy aka Eagle Point Christian Academy, aka Pine View Academy, Lucedale, MS.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2004, 12:23:00 PM »
I'm sorry, that "excuse" crap is stupid.

I have bipolar disorder.  You don't "fix" a bipolar with harsh treatment.  You run a grave risk of killing him/her.  Bipolars *will* suicide--they don't just attempt, they do it.  And you may have no warning at all, at all.

If he wasn't taking his medicine, he probably did need to be committed.  Punching his mother in the back is the kind of violent outburst you can get in a bipolar who's off his meds.  He's not rotten, he's just crazy and off his meds.

He needed to be committed to a more traditional mental hospital that would get him stabilized on his medication, and then brought home under the condition, from his parents, that he would stay current with his medicine and keep all appointments with his pdoc and therapist.  And that if he didn't take his medication he'd go right back into the hospital.  (Because he's dangerous to others off his meds, and the danger will tend to manifest as a sudden rage with no warning at all.)

Bipolars are frequently terribly forgetful.

His parents needed to take responsibility for handing him his medicine when it was time for him to take it, watching him take it, and taking him to his pdoc and therapist appointments.

Once taking care of his illness became an ingrained habit, they might eventually be able to let him manage it himself.  Until then, when he didn't take his medicine, they shouldn't have treated it like it was his responsibility and his problem if it didn't happen---we're talking about a seriously mentally ill boy, here.  They needed to step up and see to it that their disabled son *did* take his meds at the appropriate times.

If WWASPS appeared to have any benefit at all, it was probably *solely* because they were making him take his meds regularly.

I'm functional, but I'm in the upper 90% of functionality for bipolars.

It is not at all uncommon for bipolars to be on permanent, full Social Security Disability.  And SS disability is generally hard for people to get---if they say you're disabled, you're *very* disabled---and a lot of bipolars are.

This kid isn't "troubled"---he's broken.  He was broken before he was sent to WWASPS, and the only effective thing they did for his behavior (besides traumatize him into learning to put up with bullshit) was probably to ensure he took his meds regularly.  And the learning to follow rules could have happened easily without the trauma---once he was stable on medication.  It's the stabilizing on medication that he needed.

No amount of "work" in or from any kind of therapist will cure bipolar disorder.  There. Is. No. Cure.

Not yet.  Maybe someday, but not yet.  And when they do cure it, it will be a medical intervention like gene therapy that does it, because bipolar disorder is a degenerative brain disease with a *heavy* genetic component.  The medication stops the progress of the brain damage and allows some of it to heal.  But it doesn't cure the underlying condition, it just treats it.  Stop the treatment, and the damage resumes and progresses.

There may be environmental triggers involved, like there are for diabetes or high blood pressure, but like diabetes and high blood pressure, once you're sick with it, it doesn't go away.  And we have no frickin' clue what the environmental triggers are, so there's no chance of avoiding them by modifying your behavior.  If you're genetically prone to heart disease, sure, you can eat right and keep your weight down and exercise.  If you're genetically prone to bipolar disorder, nobody knows *what* the hell to tell you (or your parents) to avoid to keep from getting it---or in what percentage avoiding some as-yet unidentified environmental trigger would be effective.

No amount of "work" would have fixed this seriously mentally ill boy.

If he takes his meds, a therapist *can* help him learn to manage his disorder better and cope better with life.  Maybe.  Depending on how well his condition responds to medication.  Some bipolars' illness does not respond to any of the drugs we currently have, and for most finding a combo that works is trial and error on the part of the shrink.

Doing "work" indeed!!!

You frickin' ignorant snake-oil-selling QUACK!!!!

You people don't have a cure for bipolar disorder, so quit fucking lying to desperate parents and pretending that you can "fix" the major mental illnesses that have a biological basis.  You fucking can't.  And the entire psychiatric profession knows damned well you can't.

The National Institutes of Mental Health's verdict is in on your type of "work" as a treatment for the major mental illnesses.  Their verdict?  ***INEFFECTIVE AND FREQUENTLY HARMFUL***

God, we need the FDA or its equivalent to have the same control over "therapies" or "work" that purport to treat mental illness.  WWASPS should have to post big warning labels all over their web pages and marketting stuff clearly stating that their "treatment" is ineffective and harmful for seriously mentally ill children, and if they don't they should be jailed under the very same charges a patent medicine salesman would be if he was trying to sell a bogus "cure" for cancer, because it's the same exact damned thing.

Timoclea
 :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:
(Oh, and not only am I bipolar, and the parent of a bipolar, and the daughter-in-law of a bipolar, and the cousin and niece of a bipolar, I have a degree in Psychology from a national top-ten public university.  Anon?  You're an idiot, and what's more, you're a dangerous fucking idiot.)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2004, 01:02:00 PM »
Timoclea

I didn't get that Bethel was a WWASPS school when your son was there.

Second, WWASPS schools DO NOT claim to cure bi-polar, nor ADD or anything else that is "for life,"

For bi-polar they help them learn the necessary skills to deal with the highs and lows. That includes knowing he has to be the one to be responsible for taking his meds.  As you know, YOU are the one ultimately responsible for taking your meds, even when you don't think you need them anymore.  Mom and dad aren't going to be there to make sure he takes them for the rest of his life.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2004, 01:51:00 PM »
I didn't have a kid at Bethel.  That was a different post.

*I* am functional enough to be fanatical about taking my meds and contacting my pdoc if I start to get unstable and need my dose adjusted up or down.

I'm in the top 90%---very high-functioning for someone with this disease.

Many bipolars *can't* be the one responsible for taking their medication.  They are *disabled* with it.  They need a keeper.  Either Mom and Dad, or when Mom and Dad are gone, some other extended family member.

My bipolar cousin's healthy grown daughter looks to be pretty much set to take over taking care of Mama when my aunt and uncle die.  My cousin isn't nearly as functional as I am, and when *she* notices she's getting unstable, she's already far enough gone that she has to go check herself into the hospital and they call the responsible next of kin---now my aunt, eventually her grown daughter---to say she's there until they get her stabilized again.

She's on total SS disability, and she needs to be.  When she's stable on her meds, she's a nice lady.  When she's not, she's not.  But it's not her fault.  She's sick, she's disabled, she's had a hard life and will likely continue to have a hard life.

No, bipolars *can't* necessarily be the one responsible for taking their medication, because it's rare that they're as good as I am about noticing when the meds need to be adjusted, and noticing as early as I do.  So even a bipolar who's taking their medicine completely as directed  can go nuts when the sunlight levels or their weight or other changes changes the dose they need---and then they're not necessarily a sane person who can take responsibility for restabilizing themselves---they can be crazy folks who need a keeper until they're restabilized.

I'm *very* high function, more by luck than by design, and there but for the grace of God go I.

And even I have and use sane friends and family members to notice, often before I do, when something changes and my meds are no longer quite right and tell me I need to call my doc.  Even I have my husband sometimes remind me when I miss a dose and start talking morbidly or pessimistically, "Have you taken your meds today?"

Timoclea
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Offline Watchaduen

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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2004, 03:22:00 PM »
Timoclea

I didn't get that Bethel was a WWASPS school when your son was there.>>>>

My son was abused and tortured at Bethel.  It wasn't a WWASP school last summer, 2003.  But it is now.  I think any reputable treatment school for teens would NOT want to be associated with WWASP.
I just was commenting that I e-mailed that TIME editor also.  I also sent them a copy of the lawsuit filed in Federal Court.
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heryle - My son was TORTURED and ABUSED at Bethel Boys Academy aka Eagle Point Christian Academy, aka Pine View Academy, Lucedale, MS.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2004, 12:10:00 AM »
The parents that pulled their child are like so many other parents that come to a parent/teen seminar.  Kid HAS made some changes, and really looks great during the seminar.  The kids actually talk about this and know that if they really look good their parents will bring them home.  No, the gum thing was not the reason, it was an excuse.  Didn't they choose a structured program with rules because their son was not living by any rules whatsoever and even hit his mother? What do they really think 4 months is going to do when the family was in chaos for a lot longer?  Band-Aid, quick fix, scare tactic, wake up call?  

Reading between the lines of the story, my opinion (if it matters) is they were struggling financially and didn't want to lose their home.  I'd buy that before I'd buy the gum consequence.  Besides, it wouldn't have taken months to get back to where he was. Admitting it was about money will free them up to get on with their lives.  

I commend Ms. Norem for confronting the broken rule and not playing games for the parents sake.  

The boy didn't have the time to get the internal structure he will need, so instead the parents are taking it on for him.  Whatever works!  

Was this kid really bi-polar?  None of the "symptoms" describe bi-polar...the paranoia, the mania, the perfectionism, the depression.  Sounds more like A.D.D. to me.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2004, 11:32:00 AM »
Reading between the lines, I see parents who determined that their son had gotten a wake up call and once exposed to the 'methods', decided against further 'treatment'.

Recipe for creating a passively-aggressive defiant child- subject them to unrealistic rules that have no rational basis other than to determine who's in 'control' and to austere/ extreme consequences for minor infractions.
Subject a kid (person) to this environment long enough and you get a person who lives by others rules, can't think for themselves, and is constantly vigilant; who only makes positive decisions to avoid consequences.

Internal structure.  :lol:

I think the parents showed intelligence for removing him before he was brain dead.

What IS the rationale for the No Gum rule? Aren't there enough rules without concocting irrational ones?
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Offline Watchaduen

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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2004, 11:35:00 AM »
Reading between the lines of the story, my opinion (if it matters) is they were struggling financially and didn't want to lose their home. I'd buy that before I'd buy the gum consequence. Besides, it wouldn't have taken months to get back to where he was. Admitting it was about money will free them up to get on with their lives>>>>

Sorry, I don't agree.  I believe there are a lot of parents out there just like myself.  Who honestly did NOT know that these type of torture homes could even exist in the year 2003.  When we rescued our child from Bethel Boys Academy, our son was able to smuggle out three other phone numbers.  We immediately called those parents and upon hearing how their child was being treated, rescued their kids.  When the state removed an additional 13 victims from that hell hole, only one parent insisted they wanted their child sent back there.  They didn't believe their son.  The other 12 parents were outraged and the abuse and torture their kids had suffered.  That isn't what they were told would happen to their child, nor did any of them feel that's what kind of help they paid for.
There are some ignorant parents out there who truly don't care about what happens to their child as they have simply given up the parenting card.  Yet, from talking to so many victim's parents, a large majority honestly don't know the abuse their child is suffering.  When they do know they pull their child from that bad situation.
I believe this set of parents did the same thing.  At first, they were happy with the results they were seeing, yet the gum incident made them realize it was waaaaay to harsh.  Good for the parents to pull their child out of that.
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heryle - My son was TORTURED and ABUSED at Bethel Boys Academy aka Eagle Point Christian Academy, aka Pine View Academy, Lucedale, MS.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2004, 12:51:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-11-15 21:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The parents that pulled their child are like so many other parents that come to a parent/teen seminar.  Kid HAS made some changes, and really looks great during the seminar.  The kids actually talk about this and know that if they really look good their parents will bring them home.  No, the gum thing was not the reason, it was an excuse.  Didn't they choose a structured program with rules because their son was not living by any rules whatsoever and even hit his mother? What do they really think 4 months is going to do when the family was in chaos for a lot longer?  Band-Aid, quick fix, scare tactic, wake up call?  



Reading between the lines of the story, my opinion (if it matters) is they were struggling financially and didn't want to lose their home.  I'd buy that before I'd buy the gum consequence.  Besides, it wouldn't have taken months to get back to where he was. Admitting it was about money will free them up to get on with their lives.  



I commend Ms. Norem for confronting the broken rule and not playing games for the parents sake.  



The boy didn't have the time to get the internal structure he will need, so instead the parents are taking it on for him.  Whatever works!  



Was this kid really bi-polar?  None of the "symptoms" describe bi-polar...the paranoia, the mania, the perfectionism, the depression.  Sounds more like A.D.D. to me.   "


ADD and the manic phase of bipolar disorder look *extremely* similar, especially in children.

There are a few typical differences, for example ADD rages typically last for less than an hour and bipolar rages can last for four or five hours or more.  Bipolars typically have disordered body positions (such as hunching over or going into a fetal position or trying to hide under things) when they are in a rage or crying fit or on the edge of one.  ADDers typically don't have those disordered body positions.  The problem is that the two disorders can co-occur, and the few differences are not definitive---you can have early onset bipolars with shorter rages and ADDers with disordered body positions.

The really important difference is in response to medication.

It can be absolutely disastrous to put a manic child on Ritalin.  Ritalin is a stimulant, which would tend to make the mania worse.  Manic people, even children, can get violent with little to no warning.  (Or, rather, with warning signs even experienced laymen may not recognize at all.)

If you put an ADD child on a mood stabilizer, it simply doesn't work---but is not immediately disastrous.

So usually the way the doctors tell the difference  between ADD and mania in children is they give a mood stabilizer and see if it gets better.  If it does, the child is bipolar.  If it doesn't, *then* they try Ritalin.  If the child gets better instead of worse, it's ADD.  

One of the other touchstones that can help you tell the difference is if there happens to be a strong family history of one disorder or the other---there won't always be, but if there is, it can give the pdoc a clue as to which disorder she's looking at.

So basically, unless you're a licensed psychiatrist, if the licensed psychiatrist diagnosed the kid as bipolar and had the kid on a mood stabilizer that was working *when he took it*, then you should presume that even though it "sounds like ADD" to you, the psychiatrist probably knows very well what she's talking about.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2004, 11:48:00 PM »
Pretty good article in Time.  Like so many reporters, he came to find fault and abuse, and instead the worst thing he found was parents who decided to pull their kid for breaking a rule.   Dad gave him the gum, kid decided since dad gave it to him, it would be okay. If dad was an alcoholic and told his son it was okay to have a few sips of Jack with him, I suppose that's acceptable?

The gum thing...it's petty, it's a small rule, but learning to not break rules is to learn self-control.  Damn, if a consequence for breaking a rule is torture, bring it on!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2004, 11:56:00 PM »
Timoclea - I have ADD.  I was  given a stimulant many years ago and I was buzzed!  This is what is being prescribed by the so-called degreed experts as the answer?  How about learning self-control, anger management, making lists, focus skills (wWhich by the way WWASPS schools ALL teach) First hand experience, it works, though it took time to make it a conscious part of my life.  ADD does not disappear, even masked by meds.  From the article, it sounds like the young man did learn some good things.  The program teaches to take what fits and let the rest go.  Choosing to let go of the need for a consequence for a known rule was their choice.  It's not my business, only theirs.
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