Author Topic: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!!!!  (Read 4177 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« on: October 30, 2004, 08:02:00 PM »
called and spoke with Libby. I explained my friends situation fully and suggested that she would be able to make a down payment and then make payments for her son to enter the program. I was shocked by Libby's response. Libby flatly refused to take her son without full payment up front. I think it was $5,000 at that time. There was no way this lady could get that kind of money.


the quote above is so true. If not what explains that the gruop did not have a lot more Blacks in it. Stop. Stop. Stop. Everyone, stop talking about all this B.S. and concentrate on this. If seed was so honest and open why were thee inner core people regardless of what years 70's, 80's, and 90's about money, moeny, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wake up and smell the fine expensive coffee!!!!!!! IT all had to be about the finest and best of everything!!!!!!!
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Offline Robin Martin

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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2004, 08:45:00 PM »
Not so...when I entered in '72, my mom paid based on a sliding scale (as a single parent, she was supporting two of us at the time) and Suzy did my intake. I was also aware of many others that came in w/ single parents.  If one could afford it - they paid, as they should have.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2004, 10:13:00 PM »
And if one could not afford it, they recruited, housed and fed newcomers and out of towners, transported them all over town (it was a good 40 minute drive each way for us), solicited donations, etc.

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
--Annie Dillard, "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek"

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline rjfro22

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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2004, 10:15:00 PM »
My family had no money, and Art  took me in
with open arms, if my family had been doing better, I am sure something would have been
asked of them.  The Seed needed all the help it could get and thank God for the people that could afford to help . I knew  several people that had no money and the Seed never turned them away. And thats the truth . I do remember a couple of people of color in the Seed. South
florida at that time was pretty white and segregated, I came remember a very small area in Hollywood where Afro Americans lived
and in Davie it was like only a 4 block area.
But now that it was mentioned, the Seed was pretty white.  But lets face it, it was the location.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2004, 11:40:00 PM »
Bull! Sorry, it just wasn't like that. Segregated? Yes, to be sure. But Florida has had a significan't black population since pre Civil War daze. They just weren't seen much east of Dixie Highway. North of the Pompano Pier used to be called "nigger beach" till they shut it down to the public entirely around 5 or 8 years ago. For background, just look into the origins and history of Collier City (now an incorporated annex of Pompano Beach) and Stranahan Highschool. Or just as the local NAACP, they do keep records.

There were few blacks in The Seed because a) Art went after monied folk, of whom few were people of color and b) Art went after influential folk, ditto.

I know it may seem entirely unbelievable to you, but Art didn't start The Seed on a shoestring and a song. He had a million dollar grant from NIDA (compliments of Bobby DuPont) and other, lessor Federal, state and local public largess.

Here's some background on that.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... he+seed%22

Bottom line, every time that scammer cried poor mouth and passed the plate he was breaking the first and most impotent rule.

You know, too many weirdos out there. At least with you people I know WHY you are weird!!!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Straight_Inc_Alumni/' target='_new'>Kady

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Tony Stark

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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2004, 03:29:00 AM »
It wsn't much, but we never even finished paying the bill and didn't get screwed. Trick of that deal was my Dad worked for the St. Petersburg Times and they were looking for some good publicity from the "mullet wrapping" Pravda. Didn't work. Too bad. :smokin:

I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe.
--William Howard Taft, U.S. President

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2004, 06:45:00 AM »
Antigen-wrong again.  The grants did not start until the Seed was around for a few years.  He started it out of his own pocket.  Then discontinued, thats why donations were required for sole survival.  Did you ever visit Dade And Broward in the 70,s there were many afro americans.  Antigen you see what you want to see.

Antigen = ::soapbox::
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Offline Tony Stark

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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2004, 06:50:00 AM »
That is a fact Kitten, You appear to see only what you can see. Anything that fits your agenda.I don't even know why in the hell you try to make a foe outa me, I don't wish you any harm.  I just tell you the facts.  :smokin:

As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher

dead poet

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"It's a Secular Crime to Mankind, something they've been speculating too long"
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2004, 07:19:00 PM »
MANY african americans?


Do you have your memory gun set on Stun?

Out of several thousand kids that went thru the St Pete seed only maybe 10 were black.

I went to the seed in Broward several times and didn't see a black kid.

And as for money, Even as Art poor mouthed and talked about his huge sacrifice "for the kids", money was rolling in open meeting twice a week in apparently quite healthy amounts. The press likened the Broward seed to a penecostal tent revival. Private donations were coming in. State, Federal and county grants were coming in, and major property donations existed. The Seed purchased the St Pete Building after a year for almost 300 grand in cash, a huge amount of money in the mid 70s.  Meanwhile, virtually all the food was donated, there was no air conditioning, most chores were done for free by Seedlings, and the staff made a pittance for an income.

When his grant money dried up in Miami, he closed the Miami branch and moved everyone within three days? Doesn't really sound sacrificial to me.

So where did all that money go? Someone...anyone care to educate us here?  

Apparently Art never stopped the poor mouthing but I have it on good word he got millions from the state when they took over his property for highway expansion. He also sold land for development of a shopping center, and that house you allude to was deeded in his name several years ago when checked against the broward county appraiser's office.

Now, no doubt when his enrollment dropped to next to nothing later on I am sure his expenses were out of proportion to his income.

So maybe everything isn't black and white, but
Here is the difference between you and I...Your information comes from what you were told by Art Barker and his inner core devotees and mine doesn't. You believe what you were told and  don't have the presense of mind to check out what you were told.

I do.





[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-11-01 16:28 ]
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Offline rjfro22

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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2004, 09:28:00 PM »
I was also in the Seed when it was in a small house  in ft laud back in 70  71?  and Art basically ran that out of his own pocket with small donations,  so what if Art was able to get grants and donations, Art was of service to his fellow man , and he brought together a community to help, and thank God for the generousity of all those people. Isn't that what its all about ?  Greg, you always want to put an evil spin on things. I wish I could be half the man  Art is . You should ask yourself ,  What are you doing to help humanity?  If you are responsible for putting this forum together, I really want to thank you,  but I totally disagree with you on how it was.
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2004, 09:57:00 PM »
No evil spin, just pointing out the obvious. Huge amounts of money and very few black people were always the rule at the seed, at least in the early and mid 70s when I was there.

And to answer your question, yes I did start this forum, but the credit really goes to ginger for hosting the entire Fornits for free at great sacrifice of time and money.

You have no idea how many people have called me  or written me and thanked me personally or how important this forum has been for many many people. The numbers of participants speak nothing to how many people read and get something out of it..and not only seed people but seed offshoot people and their parents. It really feels good to be frank with you especially in light of the fact that I had given up ever getting anything positive out of my seed experience. This is how I choose to give back and This is one thing I do for humanity among a few others that really are private matters. I feel good about myself and hope you do to.

As far as disagreeing, that is what a forum is all about. Without disagreeing there is no point in a forum. Thru disagreeing in an adult fashion, discussing issues and keeping an open mind, we all learn things and hopefully grow.

As for myself, these forums have helped me drop my anger, understand the processes my young mind was subjected to, helped me to forgive myself and understand the sources of my personal demons, and give my fellowship with others that feel as I do.

Further, It has opened a window of understanding to those of you that supported the program and hung around for so many years. Before you guys showed up I had negative opinions of all of you. That is no longer true. After speaking with some of you on the phone my understanding has grown even further.

rjro22, you have also helped me understand the true origins of the program because you were there.

We can all learn from each other here and try to understand the different perceptions and reactions we had to being in the seed cult. All of our experiences are valid.

Also, open challenges of information is part of a forum. If someone posts something inaccurate, calling that out is what is expected of those with different information.

This isn't true of just fornits but of all internet forums. My vision of the Seed discussion forum ALWAYS, from day one, included some of you long timers showing up and giving your side. That some of you are actually listening to others and considering alternate viewpoints is a big bonus to me and increases my respect for many of you bigtime.


As a finality to this long winded post, I must respectfully disagree with your last post.  I think Art's service was really for himself, a self serving way of placing himself on a pedestool. I would never want to be half the man of Art Barker but rather would aspire to be many many times more self aware and truly compassionate of people, unlike the Seed mentality that was only of sevice to those that choose to follow sheeplike a cult that became weirder and weirder as time went on.

Art's Gift of "instant awareness" was a con to elevate this "great man" above all you long termers, to set up a reason to worship and adore him like a little king.  In other words, it was a con and you were conned. No shame in that, we all were. You just were conned for longer.

Yes, you can con a con. Art was proof that that statement was just a cliche like most of the rest of them we learned in those warehouses reeking of BO.
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Offline Robin Martin

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« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2004, 09:58:00 PM »
So what???  I was Assistant to the Regional Program Director of a highly acclaimed 'national' drug program and that's the way it goes...  Whatever grants don't cover, private donations and "chores" do.  I know very well how this works and understand there are those that get greedy and I really don't care.  I've been on both sides of that fence and know of too many success stories and a few not so successful.  The good outweighs the bad...so be it.

p.s.  I also enjoyed attending the 4-Corners Penecostal Church in St Pete from time to time.  It was amusing and uplifting.
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Offline Robin Martin

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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2004, 10:05:00 PM »
I REALLY do appreciate everyone's time and energy put into this forum be it negative or positve - it's been a trip for me after 30 years to be connecting w/ those from long ago. I, too have gained some insight of those for whom "the program" didn't work.  I wonder if anyone did their Thesis on this subject?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2004, 10:10:00 PM »
My father and stepmother got "saved" at that church and I actually got permission to go there as a seedling. They had their own drug program but the people had long hair. I actually spoke to them against seed rules (don't tell..hehe). I will agree it was amusing for sure...but also a bit silly with all the yelling and talking in tonques.  To each their own.

Back on topic, Tell me, did your national drug program keep kids all day in non air conditioned warehouses with donated food and money and donated housing and staff making a pittance? What were the expenses of the Seed that required all that money way back when?  Keep in mind that Art was taking kids in for $200 just to get bodies in the door so he could get the twice weekly donations from the parents. What was the expense to keep a seedling back then? The answer is next to nothing, especially when group was large..it was a massive money making machine.

There are some differences here Robin.


You have previously stated you really don't care what the processes you went thru were. Is that still true?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2004, 10:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-11-01 19:05:00, Robin Martin wrote:

"I REALLY do appreciate everyone's time and energy put into this forum be it negative or positve - it's been a trip for me after 30 years to be connecting w/ those from long ago. I, too have gained some insight of those for whom "the program" didn't work.  I wonder if anyone did their Thesis on this subject?"



No,but I might as well have. I went thru a period around age 20 when I spent a bit of time in libraries studying the Seed and cults, and also interviewed the moonies and hari krisnas quite a lot. I used to go occasionally Sunday nights in Gainsville to the Hari Krisna house for free meals and laugh at their attempts to enroll me, but I really had compassion for them, felt a kind of kinship with them but saw their schtick coming from a mile away. The moonies were a bit less kooky looking but basically were very similar to seedlings with all the singing and recruiting and swearing the moonies saved them. There was even two times I physically stood up for them, once at a rock concert when two guys attacked a hari krisna selling flowers and another and another time on campus at UF.  

Another story for another time.
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