Author Topic: St.Pete straight 1979  (Read 37342 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #225 on: April 03, 2006, 12:44:00 PM »
I have never said I enjoyed anything someone else must be using my name

marnie
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Offline Anonymous

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St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #226 on: April 03, 2006, 12:55:00 PM »
plz pick an ID then. thank you.
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Offline seamus

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« Reply #227 on: April 05, 2006, 05:20:00 PM »
Again for the record I thought you Marnie were  kind-hearted,Amy used to call me "the Worm".I ran across her in later life.It was Ugly.I made sure all her neighbors in Venice knew what she was,My old Heroin/dilaudid spot was on the same street she and MIke lived on.I have no pity on her,nor (oddly)any animosity,
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It\'d be sad if it wernt so funny,It\'d be funny if it wernt so sad

Offline Anonymous

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St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #228 on: April 05, 2006, 09:21:00 PM »
Quote

On 2006-04-01 16:14:00, Eudora wrote:

"Well I knew both of you guys. And I'll vouch for you not being intentionally sadistic. I even believe you when you say you didn't "see" any abuse, John. When HRS asked me, I said no. I didn't consider it abuse, even when I got tackled and pinned to the concrete for a couple of hours then bounced around the inside of a timeout room by Marti, among others.



Not that I thought it was right when it happened to anybody. Just that I 'did the necessary things' or, more acurately, I knew what would happen when I refused to apologize to Group like that asshole, Chris Casselor ordered me to, so then it wouldn't be fair to turn around and bitch about it.



But I was just a kid then and coming out of roughly 12 years of having my brain scrambled and family disassembled by the Seed, culminating in 2 years of intensive mind fuck there in Sarasota. We're grown now. We've all had some time to think. Isn't it about damned time to own up?



You enjoyed it, Marnie? Ok, I can understand how you thought you were doing good then. You were pretty much raised in the program too. And you too were just a kid. But now?



Try this, Marnie. Go on down to your local high school. Volunteer as a teachers' aid. When you get a group of girls alone, trapped in study hall or something and start demanding that they tell the whole class the intimate details of the time their uncle tried to fuck them or the first time they snuck away to start finding out what sex is all about w/ their very first serious crush.



How would that work out for you do ya think? I think someone would march right out the door (something we couldn't do) and report you to the first sane adult they encountered and you'd be charged w/ multiple counts of lewd and lascivious act on a minor or corrupting minors or sexual assault or some such, as it should be.



Oh, what fun we had breaking the minds and spirits of little girls, pumping them for embarrasing intimate details to be bandied about in those shit talkin' sessions you had in the staff office, told to their parents and held over their heads indefinitely. Ah, the good old daze! I sure do miss them!  :nworthy:  :nworthy:
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Offline Antigen

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St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #229 on: April 13, 2006, 06:23:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-04-03 09:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I have never said I enjoyed anything someone else must be using my name



marnie"

This wasn't you??

Quote
On 2006-04-01 12:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

I remember loving to lead girls rap because for the most part it was intimate and I could be myself without having to "show what you had" as a staff member - egos led most bad staff members (false egos).

I remember being absolutely mortified as we cajoled and pressured girls to speak of themselves in the most harsh terms, especially in relation to sex. Worse than having to hear it and watch as some girls were brought to tears and still the probing went on was that we all had to pretend nothing horrible was going on, that we all approved, even would take part if given the dearly cherished chance to "relate".

I get that you didn't see what was wrong with that at the time. I got it full on in the face like a Mack truck the moment after chewed out Bobby R. for being defiant and then realized the poor kid wasn't capable of looking at the speaker, standing up straight (or at all w/o assistance) or complying w/ any other directive.

I realized that there was a whole bitch of a lot going on around me, even that I was directly involved in doing, that I just wasn't seeing. After awhile, even the horrible comes to seem normal.

But now?

And it's not such a small issue. That's how it happened in Nazi Germany, too. On the night the synagogs burned, many a Nazi party member or affiliate said "Mein Gott, was nächst, die Katrina Kirche?" Over a very short time, these same people came to accept much worse than church burning.

Quote
I regret that I stood by at times and let cruel things happen - but I was like a kid in group as well - shocked that things could occur and powerless to do much. so many times I wanted to run and hide.

I remember when parents would come and pull their kids out of the program, even on staff, I wish that kid was me. strange huh? I did like knowing so many good people. but the downside outweighed the good - FOR SURE!!!!!!!!


No, not strange at all. I get that too. Why do you think I didn't turn down the 'offer' to take pre-training? I guess I'm just surprised that you haven't thought this stuff over in all these years.

But there's a lot I don't understand and I really would like to know. Why was I untouchable, for example? I round housed Kim S. right onto the deck, expecting to get taken down. Actually, I just couln't keep to my feet anymore and I figured the next girl to shove me to get me to run would push me over, then I'd fall, then I'd get 'restrained' or forcably exercised, so I just wanted to get in one good shot before that happened.

Nothing at all against Kim. In fact she's about the last one I wanted to hurt. She was just the unlucky "next bitch to come along and shove me". So I slugged her hard, then kept walking, haughed up a lugy in the fake rubber tree plant at the back of the room, and waited for the take-down. It never came. I don't think group even confronted me.

I just don't understand why and that bugs me. What went on behind the scenes? How did you guys arrive at a decision to do what you did to Bobby and treat me entirely differently. Survivor's guilt on my part? Maybe, but more than that. I want to understand what really happened, fill in the huge gaping blanks that I've had to fill in with gueswork because the topic has been verboten in my family since long before my intake day.

I don't want to yell at you or make you feel guilty or fight with you. I just want to know wtf happened back there.

sunday school: A prison in which children do penance for the evil conscience of their parents.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #230 on: April 13, 2006, 12:01:00 PM »
Ginger - I don't really know what your asking - your words are very confusing - Jumbled thoughts



Marnie
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Offline Anonymous

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St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #231 on: April 13, 2006, 12:03:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-13 03:23:00, Eudora wrote:


I remember being absolutely mortified as we cajoled and pressured girls to speak of themselves in the most harsh terms, especially in relation to sex. Worse than having to hear it and watch as some girls were brought to tears and still the probing went on was that we all had to pretend nothing horrible was going on, that we all approved, even would take part if given the dearly cherished chance to "relate".



I get that you didn't see what was wrong with that at the time. I got it full on in the face like a Mack truck the moment after chewed out Bobby R. for being defiant and then realized the poor kid wasn't capable of looking at the speaker, standing up straight (or at all w/o assistance) or complying w/ any other directive.



I realized that there was a whole bitch of a lot going on around me, even that I was directly involved in doing, that I just wasn't seeing. After awhile, even the horrible comes to seem normal.


Is this really that difficult to grasp?
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Offline Anonymous

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St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #232 on: April 13, 2006, 12:48:00 PM »
Ginger - Who is bobby? I'm confused - your words are confusing words!


 - When I talked of Girls rap - it was not what you were talking about - I just remember feeling close to the girls when I was with them  - I never talked of sex - I wanted to be accepted -  being on staff was a joke for me - I needed to know somehow I wasn't a freak - and at times girls rap was my escape - I did not agree with anything straight did - but I felt like I was trapped like everyone else whether you believe it or not - even staff was trapped - I was terrified to quit - I was terrifed of being put on a refresher or being a target of the shit staff - I was also a victim whether you believe that or not - It certainly was not one sided - I was hurt bad by straight - I feel the effect to this day

marnie
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Offline Anonymous

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St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #233 on: April 13, 2006, 12:51:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-04-13 09:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ginger - Who is bobby?

I think she's referring to Bobby Reugles (sp?)





Quote
- When I talked of Girls rap - it was not what you were talking about - I just remember feeling close to the girls when I was with them  - I never talked of sex - I wanted to be accepted -  being on staff was a joke for me - I needed to know somehow I wasn't a freak - and at times girls rap was my escape -

In your opinion is Ginger's description of girls' rap accurate?


Quote
I did not agree with anything straight did - but I felt like I was trapped like everyone else whether you believe it or not - even staff was trapped - I was terrified to quit - I was terrifed of being put on a refresher or being a target of the shit staff - I was also a victim whether you believe that or not - It certainly was not one sided - I was hurt bad by straight - I feel the effect to this day



marnie"


We all were.  Those of us who did not go on staff have some deep seeded feelings about those who did and had control over us.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #234 on: April 13, 2006, 01:03:00 PM »
OH YES - The shit staff were cruel 24/7 - Yes Ginger's thoughts on girls rap was accurate. -

I just refused to be apart of that abuse. - I had to sit back and watch as we all did - I was controlled as were others - I was 17 & 18 years old on jr & Sr. staff.... I did not have a clue as to how to stand up and fight for myself or others! I just tried to go on unnoticed and I remember everyday trying to think of anyway I could to leave without suspicision or notice.  I finally got the opportunity to move out of state and that was my way off staff - pretty pathetic that i could not just say i wanted to leave out of fear of notice and that someone would see thru me and come down on me (even on sr. staff)
total FEAR

Marnie
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #235 on: April 13, 2006, 04:14:00 PM »
No no, not at all! Let me tell you about a couple of the worst days. They weren't the couple of days I got roughed up. It was actually sort of liberating to just say what I really thought in there for once.

No, the demoralizing moments were when of a different nature. When staff came in and announce the formation of the 7th step society. Fuck! That changed my plans. It was hard to pull a face right then and pretend I was all happy and thankful about it. Then there was the day they brought my best childhood friend in by the back of the pants. Hadn't seen him in a year. He had grown 2 feet! I was so fucking pissed off to see him, and scared he'd blame me, more scared he was right cause I might have rambled off some damning statement about him in one of those endless raps. I always protected him before. He was younger than me and like a little brother. And I couldn't protect him then. Was afraid even to look at him cause we'd both get in trouble. Couldn't send him a message, nothing. Fuck!

Then there was the day they "offered" me the high honor or taking the special pretraining course. That sucked! I had to speak and be fucking convincing, too. Yeah, I know just exactly what you mean by trapped!

I don't know if you were there when we marathoned Bobby. I think they had my little 'brother', Steve (who by then was not so little, like 6'4" or so and thick as a lumberjack) do a whole lot of the ass kicking. That kid, I always had to step in and fight if need be. Not that he was scared of taking a blow, he wasn't. We played pretty rough. He was the kind of kid that if he accidentally hurt someone throwing a ball too hard or tackling them to hard, HE would get upset!

I blocked it all, even when it was happening, even when I was the one fucking w/ people. I turned myself to stone and figured I was just waiting it out. Didn't know it was effecting me or anyone else. After awhile, it didn't even seem that bad.

But back to Bobby. He wasn't the only one to get marathoned for days on end. He wasn't the only one broken beyond lucidity, driven catatonic or half ferral. For most of that time, I thought I never got into big trouble because I obeyed the rules and talked the talk. Only when I ran did I get confronted, set back or any other overt sanctions that stand out in my mind. But this doesn't make sense at all, when you consider that I fucking slugged somebody for enforcing the rules, just like she had to do to keep her own ass out of the sling and, instead of getting the same treatment Bobby did or Kim C (short little pale skinned gal, always reminded me of the Little Prince) or Sammie or Holly G or so many others who got the shit kicked out of them on a regular basis.

Kim C. I remember her for another reason, too. She taught me more about that place in one instant than I think I figured out in the 10 years leading up to that moment. She was helping to 'restrain' me, though I had refused to resist at all, whatever; wouldn't give that fucker Chris Casselor the satisfaction of saying "See? I knew you had deep aner in you!" Fuck him! lol So Kim did just what she thought she was supposed to do because it had been done so many times to her. She covered my nose and mouth so I'd fight. I bit her. She screamed "Ow! Stupid bitch!" Robin P came over, asked her what was up, she told her.

Then Robin did something extremely kind and extremely cruel all at the same time and she had no real better choice that I can see. She asked me what happened. I told her. Calmly. I just needed to breathe and that's the only way I could get Kim's hand off of my mouth and nose. Robin gave Kim the stink eye and sent her back to group. That's when I learned something terrifying. The look on Kim's face was one of total shock, disoriented dissilusionment. That was the last thing she expected, she clearly thought she was doing just what she was supposed to do. She had just made 2nd phase after some ungodly long and violent first phase.

What do you make of that? Do you think Robin also didn't know, like I didn't know, that the kid being restrained usually wasn't actually instigating any damned thing? Or were you guys working together (clicking lol) to change things?

I guess what I'm asking is just this. What really went on in the staff office? How would you guys arrive at a decision to keep a kid in timeout for another day or to ignore my knocking a girl out for no good fucking reason? Was I being groomed for staff all along? Or was that "offer" just a another way to try and demoralize me by extending my stay? What did you make of it when I had walking pnuemonia from April `81 till whenever I made 5th phase and finally screwed up the nerve to ask for a day off? I wound up spending two full days doing nothing but sleeping in that timeout room at the top of the stairs. I know a lot of other kids went w/o medical care for various things too. Did you ever know? Or were you sincerely convinced that they were faking to get attention or to escape having to look at themselves?

What about Chris? What about Richard Knowles and Charles Pendergrast? What about Pete Mitchel? He seemed to me like a really gentle, kind but thoroughly brainwashed kid.

Honestly, I don't know if this conversation can go much further, or if you really understand what I'm saying. There's actually a whole lot more that I'd like to know but I can't even ask you publicly w/o giving clues to your private history that I don't know if you want to hang out there. And, believe it or not, even though I am just as hostile to the Program as anyone might imagine, I wouldn't do that to anyone, even if I didn't like them unless we're talking someone like Virgil who, in my opinion, is damned for all time anyway.

That's why I keep trying to contact you privately. I really would apreciate it, Marnie, if you would contact me. Here's my info: http://fornits.com/contact.htm

I'll call on my dime whenever it works for you if you'll give me your number.

Thanks for reading.

I believe that when I die I shall rot, and nothing of my ego will survive. I am not young, and I love life. But I should scorn to shiver with terror at the thought of annihilation. Happiness is none the less true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic

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Offline Sam Kinison

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« Reply #236 on: April 26, 2006, 04:08:00 AM »
I knew both you and your sister.You both went to Bogie.My name is Steve.Day 1 for me was in the Rahall Building and you and Lori were both on refreshers.I remember everything.12 hour days for 17 months pretty much sums up everything.
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Offline Sam Kinison

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« Reply #237 on: April 26, 2006, 04:32:00 AM »
Woof-a-doof,the red-headed seedling from Sarasota fired because he wasn't a Seed graduate,had a male lover and probably a dozen other reasons according to rumor was Bob Gebhardt.
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Offline Sam Kinison

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« Reply #238 on: April 26, 2006, 04:41:00 AM »
Marnie,you and I sort of became friends after I finished.I'm not so keen on revealing myself yet,but I'll give you a hint,I was born one day before you were.For the record,you,your sister,and even your Mom, I remember as decent people.I,as a way of keeping my sanity,refuse to think of myself as a victim.Things,some stranger than others,happen and we only have one choice,and that is to deal with it.I'll really make things easy,Mike Sherman and I attended CHS together and even had a class together.
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Offline Sam Kinison

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« Reply #239 on: April 26, 2006, 04:57:00 AM »
Winston Pitman is currently married and living in Maine.He's a retired MCPO from the US Navy.Bryan,"Lone Biker Dude",R.,we knew each other well.You graduated before my intake but I hung out with Dan C,your brother and Chris.
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