hello, my name is alicia

[alicia1981]

I stumbled upon a story about practices at  Straight, Inc and I was appalled. I scoured the net for more information and read multiple horror stories about these facilities. Now I can't get them out of my head. I have never been in one but if I had been, I can say with certainty that I would have committed suicide. To be given over to strangers simply because my family trusts them and to be molested or abused by those strangers would have absolutely shattered my naive pre-teen world view.

I don't want ANY human to be unjustly imprisoned or abused. I cannot stand it that these things have been happening in our country without extreme public outcry - so I want to add my voice to those that are speaking out now. I have been looking for ways to do so and I'm thankful for the organizations that I mention below.

The fact that children are handed over to these facilities by their own parents it the ultimate breach of parental responsibility. People say that the parents don't know to whom they are committing their kids, that the facilities produce slick brochures and glowing recommendations from other parents. Those who know the truth need to broadcast it every way they can to combat this deception. Any parent who gives a damn should look beyond the facilities and their spokespeople when investigating them. (visit http://www.isaccorp.org for tips) Parents are supposed to protect their children, not hand them over to be victimized by such monsters. At http://www.thestraights.com , the author establishes this wise rule: "We shall tolerate no treatment program where children can not talk, in private, with their parents."

That the government aids and sanctions these organizations makes the situation even more chilling. There will always be sadists, rapists and abusers that torment people who can't defend themselves. Our government is tasked with imprisoning and incapacitating these people, not sanctioning their atrocities. We are tasked with holding our government accountable. Contact your representatives and find out how they vote on these issues; the five minutes you spend searching for the names of your representatives is worth it.

If you know what happens in these places but you don't take any action, you are complicit in the abuse that continues today; if you don't do anything to expose these facilities to the wider population then you might as well close this window because you don't really care. If you are a parent who hands your children over to these people, it is the same as abusing them yourself. In our internet age, there is simply no excuse for ignorance. It's becoming clear to me that if a bad facility exists and the kids get out alive, someone on the net is talking about them. I am so glad I found http://www.isaccorp.org today so that I can help expose these horrors and replace the officials that enable them.

Using the media and the web to organize and bring these criminals to justice appears to be very effective. I want to encourage survivors to go to http://www.ripoffreport.com and expose these abusive businesses for what they are. It's a good way to warn other parents who might be doing research on these places and get the message out to an audience that has no tolerance for abusive businesses. I will not accept a society that condones a system in which parents can imprison their unruly children under anything but the strictest standards of transparency and community oversight.
[ This Message was edited by: alicia1981 on 2004-10-11 22:59 ]

[Brown]

Alicia, I know what goes on in these places, because I graduated from one of these places.  I too, since I graduated, have read these same horror stories.  And I too know that they are scarry.  But believe me, I am positive that the things they say that go on in these places isn't true.  All of those stories you stumble apon are from angry kids that left, before graduation, and are angry, and try and get them shut down.  Please, you seem like it is something new that you just found out.  Before you get this idea that these places are so horrible, please do more readings, and find the graduates of these places and read about them.  I graduated, and I know that these places did truly help to save my life.  That sounds korny I know, but it is true.  Please, I know it is extremely hard to actually find the graduates, and that makes it seem that no good comes from these places.  But take my word for it there are hundreds of thousands of us out there that did graduate that are grateful for those places.  We weren't happy why we were there, don't get me wrong.  But now looking back, we do realize it truly was a great life changing expierence.

[alicia1981]

I guess I need to point out very clearly to you  that I am oppossed to the restrictive programs that cut children off from their parents and/or programs that allow unqualified individuals to exercise control over children. TRANSPARENCY means full disclosure about their practices and COMMUNITY OVERSIGHT means allowing others to inspect the facility to ensure it is adhering to rigorous standards of care.

I refuse to believe that one person can tell me that every story of abuse in these programs is fabricated. How dare you presume to know what every residential facility is like! I'm glad your particular experience did you so much good, but just because some people have good experiences in some facilities doesn't mean that everyone else does. Thousands of good results do not warrant dismissal of one person's torture.

If you are going to be an advocate for residential treatment centers, I suggest you work to eradicate those that give the industry a bad name. [ This Message was edited by: alicia1981 on 2004-10-11 22:42 ]

[Brown]

I agree with you, I cannot guarentee you that there was never maybe one case of abuse at a facility somewhere.  But I can tell you that I graduated, and in the time that I gradauted from the program I never witnessed or heard a single act of abuse.  And when I did graduate and met hundreds of other graduates from other facilities, I heard from them too that there was no abuse at their facilities.  

How dare me to tell you?  How dare you tell me.  How can you tell me that you know more than I do on this subject?  Were you in the program?  Did you spend 13 months in one of these places?  I doubt it.  I spent 13 months of my life working to graduate.  Now that I have, I am very proud of it.  I wouldn't trade it for anything.  People like you, read one article about the abuse at these places, and then think that you are an expert.  You think that you are so right, that when someone like me comes along that actually has been there comes along you are to stubburn to even listen.  

Yes, the kids are kept there.  They are not allowed to leave.  But lets remember, these same kids before they went to the program were the ones running away from home saying they would rather live any where but with their parents.  I don't agree with every aspect of the program.  But I do believe that it did save my life.  It may sound korny, but it is true.  I feel pretty confident in saying that it also saved the lives of almost all of the other graduates from any program world wide.  

If kids were truly so miserable there, why is there such a large number that choose to stay there on their own once they turn 18.  I know that I did.  I turned 18 only four months into my program.  I stayed.  Why?  Because I decided that I wanted something different for my life.  That may sound like a "brainwash" term, but it isn't.  It is just the truth.

[alicia1981]

Brown said: "How dare me to tell you? How dare you tell me. How can you tell me that you know more than I do on this subject? Were you in the program? Did you spend 13 months in one of these places? I doubt it. I spent 13 months of my life working to graduate. Now that I have, I am very proud of it. I wouldn't trade it for anything. People like you, read one article about the abuse at these places, and then think that you are an expert. You think that you are so right, that when someone like me comes along that actually has been there comes along you are to stubburn to even listen."

Were you in ALL of the facilities? No. Were you present during EVERY case of supposed abuse? No. Are you capable of actually absorbing my words? Apparently not. You clearly don't understand my argument or my concerns, which means that your  rebuttals to it are as solid as a fart in the wind.

[Brown]

Oh, I understand your arguments, and I admit I wasn't at all of the facilities.  But I said that I got to meat alot of others from different facilities.  They would have mentioned it if there was people being abused.  As far as Spring Creek goes, the facility doesn't have that many people on it.  I knew all of the other kids there.  By the time I graduated, I think that I could call of them my friends.  And I can tell you that NONE of them ever mentioned the abuse, or did I ever see signs of the abuse.  I am not saying at all that there never has been abuse.  All I am saying is that in my very broad expierence of the program, I have never come accross solid evididence that there every was abuse.

Another thing I just want to point out.  I was 18 when I graduated.  There was at least 50-60 other 18 year olds there with me.  Any one of them could have left at any point.  I would think that if there was all of this abuse going on, there wouldn't be all of those 18 year olds still there.  I don't know any kid that would stay at a place where they were being starved or beaten.  Just something to think about.

[Nihilanthic]

You're not really saything anything we have not heard before.

You deny all the accusations, but say "I can't be sure nothing hasn't ever happened anywhere". You say you believe it saved your life... just like everyone else.

You say they choose to stay after 18 even though we've heard howt hey could be forced to stay through further coersion or simply because they'd be put out on the street and not taken back in by their parents.

I've talked to plenty of people who were *IN* the programs themselves and heard otherwise. I've seen the stories of suicides and court cases where the plaintiffs won. Plenty of places have been closed down.

As alicia said, TRANSPARENCY is key to fixing the problem. There isn't any! Its people breaking ridiculous oaths of secrecy and snooping around finding things out.

If they really ARE doing no harm why not bother to demonstrate it? There is a SEVERE problem with too much secrecy and not nearly enough oversight or regulation. Its not just these programs, its mental health treatment and the whole damn 'teen help industry'.

Also, from what little information I have been able to come by, it seems the only model for this change is a total breakdown of your self, your emotions, your will, your ability to question or think for yourself until you submit (or act like it) and accept what you are taught, do as told and be a obedient. Behavior modification by taking everything away and giving it back through more and more blind obedience and then through the same level system making the kids in the higher ones control the lower ones.

I've seen the seminars to be little more than inducing extreme psychological and emotional distress and making you have a breakdown (aka psycho cryfest) for days at a time and feed you bullshit, then have you hug eachother and play music like the theme to rocky. It sounds stupid but when you're broken down that far it can have an effect on you.

Basicaly, a 24/7 BDSM (with total power exchange) experience for quite a long time, except its non consentual, you have no safe word or way out, and its a damn minor, and forget them getting off, they don't even let them masturbate! Oh joy, thats so damn good for their development. A daily mindfuck. Yeah, weird analogy, but thats the only other thing I could think of to compare it to.

You get rid of the extreme secrecy, institute some reform and regulation and transparency, build the parent/child bond instead of break it, and help people without brainwashing, behavior modification, suffering, humiliation, emotional and psychological breakdowns, and give them an education so they're not dependant on you, and give them ways to contact people for grievances, tell if abuse does happen, We'll get off their ass, because something will be in place to protect them and get this information out.

By the way, if anyone read this far, I had problems as a teenager because I had poor social skills. This made me very depressed and angry because of how bad people treated me. Had I been sent to one of these camps it would not have helped me at all. I'd just come out obedient and never talking about any negative feelings of my own. It would have done nothing to help and would have probably hurt me and I would have stayed a damn hermit, outwardly cold and uninterested in human contact but inwardly very, very, very sad and alone.

Wanna know what my problem was? Aspurgers Syndrome. Mild Autism. I simply did not understand people and was 'weird'.

Wanna know how I was fixed? I had a speech therapist and met some good friends to love me, accept me, make me feel good, make me feel accepted, and give me practice with social interaction and let me enjoy myself and have fun. Self esteem is a wonderful thing, and so is freedom. That did more for me any drug or camp ever could.

Being a jackass with my friends and even the family of one, yelling and laughing with them when I play a card game and stuff myself with pizza, playing video games,  riding around with them and eating at some greasy spoon at midnight was exactly the life changing experience I needed :grin:

I'll admit some people are so messed up they really do need some sort of lock in program so they can't run out and get hit by a car or stab someone, but those are very very rare, few and far between, and not in these programs anyway. Feeling good about yourself, having true acceptance and *love* instead of *hate*, pleasure instead of pain would probably go a lot farther than what happened to you. Unfortunately you got stuck with people who feel a need to punish and dominate people under 18 and have control and authority.

Oh, and its a lot less expensive.

You should be allowed to do whatever you want with your own person and property, as long as you don't physically harm the person or property of a nonconsenting other.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=PY7893&aid=10247' target='_new'>Peter McWilliams - Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2004-10-12 01:27 ]

[Brown]

If you have heard everything that I am saying, then why does it not seem to even possess even the smallest ounce of truth to you?  I don't understand.  How can you read something, on the internet no less, and believe it as if it were written in a text book?  I don't expect you to read what I have to say and then completely change what you think.  All I am asking is that the people that pretend to be experts on this, when all they really know is what they have read on the internet.  

You say that the only reason people stay is because they are affraid of being out on their own if they leave.  If they were being abused, I would think that even the thought of them being on their own wouldn't keep them in the facilities.  I had an exit plan like you are talking about where I was pretty much on my own.  I stayed.  And to this day I am still happy that I did stay.  I didn't like it while I was there, but now looking back, I do admit that I gained alot.  How do you explain the people in the programs that stay even when they have exit plans of going home to their parents?  Because you know there are those kids out there too.

I agree with both you and ALicia, I think that Transparency is a good idea.  I was there, and I know that there is nothing for these facilities to hide.  If I were in charge, I would let anyone to go on through.  I don't know the politics behind it, but it isn't because they are hiding anything.  Because on any given day parents that are thinking about sending their kid their can take a tour and see whatever they want.  So while they don't just let reporters walk around, they do have a little bit of "Transparency".

The other thing you mention is that they should build the parent/child bond instead of break it.  I agree with you.  That is the goal.  And for most it works.  At first your right, they do break it.  They break it and have the parent work out any anger they have toward their kid, and they have the kid do the same.  Then when that is done, the PC's start.  The PC's intention is to give the parents and the kid the oppurtunity to rebuild the bond.  The only way this works is if the parents and the kid stay in the program till graduation.  Most quit half way through and then are shocked when it doesn't work.  The second half, in my oppinion, is the part where the real work gets done.

[Nihilanthic]

Its not just 'read on the internet' its acutal personal communication, one on one stuff that I go by. Its also the lots of smoke and looking for the fire.

Your saying if they were really abused they would leave anyway doesn't mean a whole lot. Coersion and having your will broken kind of can make you act certain ways. Same for actual brainwashing... both of those are complaints and accusations against these programs. Plus if you think abuse was okay you wouldn't think it was wrong, now would you?

One thing I am totally and utterly against is cutting someone off, breaking this bond, and having some strangers getting involved in making a relationship set back up as they see fit. They have no regulation or accreditation and it should be a parent/child thing, not have some people given money to make the kid submissive to the parent.

Furthermore the whole model of locking a kid up and using pain, terror, suffering, and breaking the will of them to 'fix' a damn thing is just plain wrong. Look up real therapy and read how I was 'helped'.

Being kept captive in a horrible setting without any fun, any love, any kind of pleasure in your life, having to be a slave to the idiots running the program isn't going to fix any real problems. Its going to make them compliant and obedient, so they do as they're told. It 'fixes' 'bad behavior' by making them a slave.

Again, if they start being transparent (which you smugly think is a good idea) and offer ACTUAL HELP instead of just torture through various means we won't be so horrified by this. Paying thousands of dollars to have people make life miserable for a child and keep them from having normal necessities like social interaction, development of their individuality and sexuality, not letting them enjoy anything, and such things as *gasp* an education, happiness, love and trust  is bullshit!

Where's the actual help and therapy? Where's the normal development? Where's the love? Where's the nuturing? Where's the education? Where's the social interaction? Why is 24/7 surveilance required on a kid going in for being a 'basketcase' with low self esteem and depression? Why does the night staff and even upper level students watch everyone to make sure they don't masturbate? Whats the freaking deal here?

If you think about why you hate me, you might find that it's not me.
--Antigen

[Anonymous]

I have something that you can read out of a textbook.  Look at "A Guide to Treatments that Work - 2nd Edition" on pages 76-78.

Also look at my threads here (Under Parents Who Still Sing The Programs Praises...):

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#63699

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#63698

[Antigen]

On 2004-10-11 21:15:00, Brown wrote:

 Please, I know it is extremely hard to actually find the graduates, and that makes it seem that no good comes from these places.

Brown, why is that? Why is it so hard to find graduates? I don't do anything to find the people who post here. I just let people post and others come along either by word of mouth or when they search on the name of their program.

So why is it so difficult to find supportive graduates? How would you suggest going about finding them?

...it is worth discussing radical changes, not in the expectation that they will be adopted promptly but for two other reasons. One is to construct an ideal goal, so that incremental changes can be judged by whether they move the institutional structure toward or away from that ideal. The other reason is very different. It is so that if a crisis requiring or facilitating radical change does arise, alternatives will be available that have been carefully developed and fully explored."

http://laissezfairebooks.com/index.cfm?eid=103&aid=10247' target='_new'>Milton Friedman

[Anonymous]

Alicia,
I am a graduate of one of these programs. Unlike Brown I did see abuses. I personally witnessed many of the things some of these people have spoken of. As a parent now I would never place my child in the hands of strangers and be told when I can contact my child. I am against using food, exercise, and relationships as punishments. These things are essential for any healthy person.
Glad you had a positive experience Brown. But don't say the negative comments are from people who didn't finish these programs. I am a graduate who says abuse does and can happen.
Thanks for your interest Alicia. It is refreshing to know someone out in the universe unrelated to these programs believes us.
The Graduate

[Deborah]

100 deaths during/after 'treatment' in the behavior modification industry is a concern that all parents should take seriously. Unfortunately, the cases of psychological damage are more difficult to track.

Residential Treatment for Youth: Do No Harm!
http://www.wpic.pitt.edu/aacp/Vol-15-3/Youth.html

When Interventions Harm: Peer Groups and Problem Behavior
http://www.apa.org/journals/amp/amp549755.html

Towards a New Alternative to Behavior Modification and Understanding Why Consequences is Not an Effective Tool
http://www.postinstitute.com/articles/a ... iormod.htm




Creativity and What Blocks It
http://deoxy.org/creative.htm

[Antigen]

On 2004-10-11 23:57:00, Brown wrote:

How can you read something, on the internet no less, and believe it as if it were written in a text book?

This is beside the point, but it might be worth keeping in the back of your mind for anyone who's the type to be drawn to old books wherever you might find them laying around.

Pick a topic, any topic, and look it up in as many text or reference books as you can. They can't all be right because they're all contradictory. Text books are written in essentially the same way as websites; people writing what they believe (or sometimes just what they'd like to believe).

Anyway, back to the point. There's plenty of freelance testimony, court testimony, journalistic reporting, etc. about psychological and, sometimes, physical abuse that occures in Synanon style programs. You may not view as abusive what all these different people tell us about OP. But, in the more commonly accepted reality, right now, as we fritter away the time typing to each other, some pretty heavyweight government types are arguing back and forth over whether or not it is legal or ethical to treat enemy combatants in exactly the same way. Doesn't that make you wonder a little bit?

And I understand completely why someone over 18 would stay in the Program. I understand that the term "brainwashing" can be pejorative and insulting. But, since the 50's or so, it has become part of our common speech. Here is an excellent crash course (hour or two, if you read very, very carefully and do a little fact checking)

The 8th Step
Understanding Brainwashing, Mind Control & Aggression
 
 
 
Home
Why is this site named "The 8th Step"?
Before Straight - Synanon, Inc. and The Seed, Inc.
Straight, Inc. & It's Spawn
The Exploding Troubled Teen 'Help' Industry
Troubled Teen Industry - BREAKING NEWS !
Troubled Teen Industry - Online Journal
Prominent Connections
Understanding Brainwashing, Mind Control & Aggression
Links
 
 
What is Brainwashing & Does it Really Exist? - Definies 'brainwashing' and includes a 1956 document on brainwashing from the CIA to the FBI.
 
The Stockholm Syndrome - The Stockholm Syndrome explains why some of us were sucked into the program's ideology and actually ended up doing spekaing engagements for these abusive treatment centers. Hence, this is where the controversy comes into play; why some claimed it saved their lives, while others cursed the program for their abusiveness.
 
The Stanford Prison Experiment - This experiment is said to support situational attributes of behavior rather than dispostional attribution.  It seemed to entail that the situation caused the subjects' behavior rather than anything inherent in their individual personalities.  It is also used to illustrate The Theory of Cognitive Dissonance and the power of authority.


The Milgram Experiment - A lesson in depravity, peer pressure and the power of authority.  This experiment was intended to measure the willingness of a subject to obey an authority who instructs the subject to do something that may conflict with the subject's personal conscience.
 
A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance - This is a theory which was proposed by psychologist Leon Festinger in 1957.   Cognitive dissonance is  a state that an individual reaches one he has an imbalance between cognitions.  For the purpose of this theory cognitions are defined as being an attitude, emotion, belief or value, or evn a mixture of these cognitions.
 
The Bobo Doll Experiment - The Bobo doll experiment was conducted by Albert Bandura to study aggressive patterns of behavior. One of the experiment's conclusions was that people can learn through vicarious reinforcement.This shows how aggressive behavior is modeled. Click here to see a video on the Bobo Doll Experiment  
 
click here to read full articles http://mysite.verizon.net/res0g8bp/the8 ... /id44.html

Finally, a bit of unsoliceted advice from an old stranger. When you speak fondly of the program to people who feel they were hurt by it, you can expect them to be angry and to sometimes respond w/ hostility. Please don't take it personally. It's just that talk like that identifies you as being just like, or even one of, those people who hurt them and lied about it.

Forgiveness is divine. Forgetfulness is just a mental dysfunction.
--Antigen

[Brown]

To the Graduate,

I am sorry that you say you saw abuses.  What facility did you go to?  When were you there?  What did you see?  I am really interested.  Because you certainly don't sound like all the other graduates that post.  I am not saying that I don't believe you, it is just really hard to believe you.  I am actually glad you posted.  You are the first person since I have started posting that says they were a graduate and that they saw the abuses.  Every other kid that posted that has been to the program has pretty much said that they agree with what I am saying.

Yes I know all about all of these experiments and so on.  Lets talk about the Bobo Doll experiment.  The experiment had kids play with a Bobo Doll, and then a group of adults came in, and beat the crap out of it.  Then when the adult left, the kids proceeded to beat the crap out of the doll.  Lets put that into the program world.  If there was a kid getting beat day in and day out, you would think that all of the other kids would also beat on him too.  All of the testimonies state that it wasn't all of the students that got beat, just a few of them.  So if you say that it is like that experiment, then there is something missing.  Because I haven't read a testimony yet where the student says that they were beat by all the other students.

Stockholm syndrome would only apply to people that were in the program.  It would have no affect on parents, or people from outside the program.  The Stockholm Syndrome says that captives start to side with their captives, and I have to dispute you on that too.  Because their isn't any graduate that wants to stay in the program.  When it comes time to go home, they are more than happy to.  Stockholm syndrome says that the "captives" start to side with their captures and they wouldn't want to leave that place.  The one thing that graduates and people that left(angry before graduation) is that we all wanted to leave.