Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

Do you remember when?

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DKM84:
I'm starting this thread because it's been thirty years, altogether since I first steped into the seed on andrews ave. then later to 84. But there are so many things that I don't remember right off, and then sometime during a day or at night a wave of memories will flood my mind. and I'll think oh yeah, I remember that, I hadn't thought of that in 25 years.
So please tell me of some of the things you guys remember, it is very cathartic to me, as I read I remember, and then I'm more equiped to share.
So many open meetings, so many raps,
remember friday nights and hot dogs!
I loved that, but to this day I HATE PBJ sandwichs, I hate folding chairs.
who remembers Cliff, Scott, robert, ginger, susie, suzy, the LIB's (libby) billy grey,
Den Novak, john underwood, paul.
please share with me your stories, of the front gate. how about the 1st time you came in. God so many things, I'll share too, how about you.

GregFL:
well, here is one of my most shamefull memories.
I had been in the program about 3 months. By then I was trusted to do guard duty on the grounds. The Seed St Pete was unfenced and certain oldcomers would wander the grounds doing security guard duty.
It was mid afternoon on a Sunday and for some reason Suzy, another staff member, an old comer and this newcomer came outside behind the building and all converged around a parked car. This is where many private come down on sessions occured.  The boy was being yelled at and berated. He had recently escaped and been captured and brought back to the seed. All of the sudden the boy (about 14 and pudgy) made  a break for it. Suzy bellowed out laughter at the kid and sent the other staff member and me after him. He ran to the parking lot adjacent to the seed with the staff member hot on his trail and proceeded around a car. I went around the other side and full speed head on grabbed him. Me and the staff member thru him to the pavement and the staff member angrily cocked his arm behind him, i grabbed one arm and we returned the captor to a waiting Suzy, leaning smugly against the car. His lip and elbows were bleeding and his pants were ripped from being thrown to the parking lot pavement.
When we got back to Suzy she hissed at us, "you should have just let him run, he isn't worth Saving- Take him inside!"(this of course after we were directed to go get him).
It never occured to me at the time that I had just committed a crime.
I don't know his name, but if you are reading this, I apologize. I was under the influence of cultic behavior and under extreme duress, and I am sorry for my  role in your torture.

MommaDebi:
I think I can remember that occuring...
OhMyGod
I also have a vague memory of somebody running directly from one of the raps, heading out the back (thru rolled up doors?). For some reason I seem to remember that those courageous people, that attempted to "split", generally went during our outside PE time. (rolling those shoulders... oooh, eeeeee, awwwwww).

I am sure that that particular person understands that you were only doing the very best you could under very strenuous circumastances...I believe that we all did the best we could during that time in our lives.

You were very young, as I and many others were, we were indeed "powerless", not like the steps demanded we atone for, but rather because we had no individual power, not in the group, not in our homes and not in the world at large.... Please forgive yourself.


PS)A person that I had dated ran from his oldtimers a few times before he was placed in PAR. Mark Sibilia..are you out there?

Somejoker:
One of my favorite memories. There was this kid about 16 or 17 but on the small size that came in just a little after me. He escaped about a week later. Several days passed , he was brought back and was stood up and come down on hard. That night he escaped again. They caught him and court ordered him in. Back then that meant you got a six month program. After court, he came back and they stood him up and absolutely creamed him for like an hour. That night he escaped again. He was caught the next day and brought back and stood up and just hammered for what seemed like forever, but he was smiling. They sent him home with these two huge guys and mocked him about how the windows were locked, alarmed, guard dog, etc and there was NO WAY he would escape again. That was the last time we ever saw him because that night he escaped for the last time.
He was my secret hero!

Somejoker:

--- Quote ---On 2002-08-29 16:38:00, MommaDebi wrote:
I think I can remember that occuring...

OhMyGod

I also have a vague memory of somebody running directly from one of the raps, heading out the back (thru rolled up doors?). For some reason I seem to remember that those courageous people, that attempted to "split", generally went during our outside PE time. (rolling those shoulders... oooh, eeeeee, awwwwww).



I am sure that that particular person understands that you were only doing the very best you could under very strenuous circumastances...I believe that we all did the best we could during that time in our lives.



You were very young, as I and many others were, we were indeed "powerless", not like the steps demanded we atone for, but rather because we had no individual power, not in the group, not in our homes and not in the world at large.... Please forgive yourself.





PS)A person that I had dated ran from his oldtimers a few times before he was placed in PAR. Mark Sibilia..are you out there?

--- End quote ---
I have forgiven myself. I understand now that I was just surviving myself.
Hey,I remember that Name! Mark Sibilia-but I cant place the face.
The sliding doors you speak of were on the end where they led boys rap. It was actually a loading dock for trucks and there is a 4 ft drop right there. One day a guy ran from Guys rap (guy's rap-always a terrifying experience) and got past the guard and jumped....and twisted his ankle on the landing.
I believe the first day or second day I was there someone ran for the main door and was brutally thrown to the concrete and piled onto. I was forteen and that killed my spirit for running. Periodically people broke for the door but I never saw anyone sucessfully escape in this manner. It invariably led to brutality and humiliation for the person whom attempted, and fear for those who saw it.
Do you remember that if you tried to watch these episodes, the junior staff members would direct your attention back to the front by cocking their head and pointing to the rap leader? and if you didn't they would signal the rap leader to stand you up?

You weren't allowed to look anywhere but at the "rap" leader with your back off the chair. If you stopped to indendently think you were poked and prodded and admonished to "get out of your head".
The seed was very effective in its terror tactics.

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