Parents who still sing the program's praises - 5 years later

[suspended heart]

Dear granny 19,

Not all people who send their kids to one of the wwasp programs is rich. I'm not and I did, Regretfully so. Usually these parents or... let me speak for myself only, desperate and scared feeling like if I din't do something that my son would explode, implode or whatever verb you want to use. I don't know anyone for whom the choice and experience of making that decision was an easy one. It's horribly painful and most of the time the parents are a mess as well as the kids.  I was. So, if it's any consolation to you, the step dad of your granddaughter will go through a grilling self realizattion process. The only problem is that as the parent you always have a choice to bail out of the seminars where as the kids don't.
My heart bleeds for the kids and parents too. Moms and dads are vulnerable and duped because of their sense of failure as parents. It's an ingenious marketing strategy they use and an end should be put to it.
More than anything else I wish for my son back. I have done all I can do. Apologies, listining to him, explainig myself and more apologies. He has not talked to me in 3 years.

If anyone out there has any words of wisdom, please help me.

I would give my right arm to be in Kelly's parents shoes and if I were I would listen to her and then take her into my heart and beg her to forgive me.

[BuzzKill]

Kelly,
This seems like a book that might be of help.

http://www.utlm.org/booklist/titles/xb1 ... ebonds.htm

Product Code: XB171
Title: Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves
Author: Steven Hassan
Publisher: Freedom of Mind Press
List Price:
Our Price: $24.95
$22.50
Date: 2000
Pages: 392
Additional Info:  

Description

"In this new Millennium, it seems that everyone knows someone who has suffered a negative radical personality transformation. The phenomenon of destructive mind control indoctrination can turn an intelligent, educated person with a strong family background into a stranger. Whether it has happened to you, a family member, a friend, or someone you have met, this book offers understanding and hope.

"In Releasing the Bonds, leading cult expert and licensed mental health counselor Steven Hassan describes a groundbreaking new approach that will help free millions from the grip of destructive mind control." (From back cover.)

Table of Contents

Acknowledgements
Introduction
Chapter 1 We Have a Problem!
Chapter 2 What is Destructive Mind Control?
Chapter 3 The Strategic Interaction Approach
Chapter 4 Evaluating the Situation
Chapter 5 Building the Team
Chapter 6 Empowering the Team
Chapter 7 Understanding Cult Beliefs and Tactics
Chapter 8 Interacting with Dual Identities
Chapter 9 Communication Strategies
Chapter 10 Unlocking Phobias
Chapter 11 Promoting Freedom of Mind
Chapter 12 Planning and Holding an Intervention
Conclusion We All Must Help!
Resources
Endnotes
Bibliography
Index

[granny19]

I am hoping that more caring people will become active in exposing these horrible places for what they are. I personally intend to work toward getting them all shut down...not sure exactly what the best approach is, but I know if enough people are actively trying, a way will be found to make it happen. Educating the public should be a priority, along with working to give frustrated parents other options. My main consideration at the moment is trying to figure out a way to get my granddaughter out. If I am successful, it will at least open a door for others. I am a very stubborn old lady, and will not give up on this mission until it is accomplished.

[Anonymous]

Hi granny.
If you'd like to write me at
[email protected]
I might be able to get you in touch with people who like yourself have and are working on behalf of teenage family members.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-09-29 13:31:00, suspended heart wrote:

"Hi Kelly,

This is my first time using this format. I sent my son to a wwasp in samoa which I deeply regret. He's been home now for 6 years. 3 years ago he stopped talking to me . . . shinned me on, turned his back, never telling me another thing, never speaking to me again. I have written him several times asking for his forgivness.

I cannot tell if his wound is so deep or if his loathing of me is so deeply rooted in who knows what else, or maybe he just had no bloody idea what to do so he does nothing."

As staff, I remember a young lady, Kim, turning and screaming to me that she would never forgive her parents for sending her there.  I was new and fairly naive at the time and she had always been very quiet.  Needless to say, it was a wake up call to that little voice inside that was saying, something's not right here.

As far as your son, don't ever give up.  He does have wounds to heal and that takes time.  He no longer trusts you either.  You have to earn his respect and trust back.

Just let him know that you're researching, be honest in telling him what you've found, and let him know that you admit it, you screwed up, and ask for his forgiveness.  Then, let him know that you are in this forum trying to change things, and most importantly, that you will always love him and will always be there, if/when he's ready.

The kids are our future . . . a society becomes weak when the kids are disabled.

Toni

[hurleygurley]

I don't know the details of the Safe suit you referred to and thus can't comment on Tom's performance as a lawyer in this case. He HAS, in fact, won suits against WWASP (they may have been settlements) and definitely several settlements against Aspen. He is representing me right now and we've worked together for 3 months now making sure we're taking the best route for this case. I have found him to be gracious, intelligent, generous and careful. The outcome obviously is unknown as yet. I will keep you all posted. My only complaint about Tom, which is true of every lawyer I've worked with (as a paralegal) and as a consumer is that they are overcommitted and don't respond as quickly as one would like. He is charging me a very low rate and writing off many hours spent on research because this is not a boiler plate case and he feels morally committed to the cause. He has offered his home as refuge for my young friend, if need be. As a person, I cannot speak highly enough of him. We'll see soon what his lawyering will produce. I just had to throw this in because the SAFE description is absolutely contrary to my experience of Tom, especially trying to rip people off.

[Brown]

You say that her father instead of admitting that the whole family had a problem sent your granddaughter to a "WWASP Jail".  I am a graduate of one of those "WWASP Jails."  There is a couple things that I wanted to say.  First, by her dad sending her to the program does admit that it was the whole family.  The program insists that it is not just the kid.  That is why the parents also have to attend the same seminars that us kids go through.  I have staffed both seminars in the program, and since I have graduated.  And believe me let me tell you, in the parent seminars the parents get told over and over again that it is not just the kid.  If he thought that it was just her fault, I don't think that he would spend the money that he is spending to have her there.  There are a lot less expensive places that he could send her if he wanted.

On to you referring it as a "WWASP Jail."  That is furthest thing from the truth.  Yes, the kids that are there are forced to stay untill they are the age of 18.  Being forced to stay there is the only thing that makes it even close to being called a Jail.  And even that is a stretch.  I know that it is hard, and that it must be tough for you.  But please, speaking from someone that has been in the position that your granddaughter is in now.  The last thing that she needs, is you turning this into a war to try and get her out.  My dad did that when my mom sent me to the program.  And instead of working to try and graduate I sat there for longer than I needed to.  Thinking that my dad would get me out.  I finally gave up, and started to work.  That is when I finally realized how stupid I had been doing.  

Instead of reading all of this negative stuff, try looking around and try to find more of the REAL program graduate stories.  I think that if you read them, you would be more likely to want your granddaughter to graduate.

[hurleygurley]

I would love to see some long term outcome studies, not just anecdotes positive or negative on the efficacy of these programs. They are not out there and I think I know why. Do you?

[Brown]

I bet I can guess why you think there are no results out there.  But in 5 years I will let you know.  I bet you that if a graduate keeps trying that there would be no problem.  

Hey, at least I will still be alive in 5 years.  Alot of graduates, including me, would be dead by now, let alone 5 years from now, if it weren't for the program.

[Anonymous]

There is evidence that programs like these don't work.  I am taking a psychotherapies class at Hawaii Pacific University and in our textbook, "A Guide to Treatments that Work - 2nd Edition(edited by: Peter E. Nathan & Jack M. Gorman) it states that these types of programs are not effective! If you want evidence, look in this book on pages 76-77.

Group-Therapy (3 different studies:
   
     1)"Yet placing youths together could impede improvement.  For example, in one demonstration, youths (ages 8-17) were randomly assigned to variations of group therapy (Feldman, Caplinger, & Wodarski, 1983)... Those placed in a group of their deviant peers did not improve."
     2)"Similarly, another study compared interventions for nonreffered youths (ages 10-14)with conduct problems (Dishon & Andrews, 1995).  One of the treatment conditions included youths meeting in a group with a focus on self regulation, monitoring, and developing behavior-change programs.  This condition alone or in combination with parent training, was associated with INCREASES in behavioral problems and substance use.  Again, placing conduct problem teens in a group situation exacerbated (Definition: aggravated)their problems."
     3)"Other research has shown that individuals may become worse (e.g., increase in arrest rates) through association with deviant peers as part of treatment (Dishion, McCord, & Poulin, 1999; O'Donnell, 1992)."

Hospitals, Schools, Correctional Facilities, going to the country for some fresh air:
     
     "However, current research suggests that placing such youths together can impede therapeutic changes and have deleterious effects."
     
I also have a paper on the non effectiveness of therapeutic wilderness therapy programs!  I will post this on the next thread.

[Anonymous]

Overview of the evidence

Generally, there is a lack of empirical evidence to support long-term treatment effects.  A meta-analysis done by Lipsey and Wilson in 1998.  This study ?found weak or no significant effects for Wilderness Programs? (Tarolla et al., 2002).
 
Similar findings were found in a study by Pommier and Witt, in 1995, where ?the effects of traditional wilderness programs dissipate rather quickly?.  This study included juveniles that had committed violent offenses prior to entering the Therapeutic Wilderness Program.  The study evaluated the effectiveness of the addition of family training to the Outward Bound School (the Therapeutic Wilderness Program).  Treatment groups were found to have an improved self-concept and family functioning, but after three months, there was a significant decline (Tarolla et al., 2002).

Deschenes and Greenwood?s studied the Nokomis Program.  This program was a combination of a residential and an ?outdoor challenge?.  The overall program lasted one year, which consisted of three months of residence and outdoor challenge, plus nine months of intensive community aftercare.  The statistics are as follows; only 40% completed the twelve-month program, as compared to the traditional placement completion rate.  Also, there were a great number of program participants that were referred to more traditional placements.  The evaluation found that after two years, the two groups, traditional resident placement and Nokomis group displayed similar rates of drug abuse and criminal behaviors (Deschnes & Greenwood, 1998).

In conclusion, Therapeutic Wilderness Programs are not an effective treatment for conduct disordered youths.  These types of programs lack emperical evidence to support both stable and long term treatment effects.  

References

Deschenes, E.P.; Greenwood, P.W. (1998).  Alternative Placements for Juvenile Offenders:
Results from the Evaluation of the Nokomis Challenge Program. Journal of Research in
Crime and Delinquency, 35(3), 267-294.

Romi, S.; Kohan, E. (2004). Wilderness Programs; Principles, Possibilites and Opportunities of
Intervention with Dropout Adolesents. Child & Youth Care Forum, 33(2), 115-136.

Shamsie, J. (2001). Conduct Disorder: A Challenge to Child Psychiatry. The Canadian Journal
of Psychiatry, 7, 593-594.

Tarolla, S.M.; Wagner, E.F.; Rabinowitz, J.; Tubman, J.G. (2002).  Understanding  and Treating
Juvenile Offenders: A Review of Current Knowledge and Future Directions.  Aggression
and Violent Behavior, 7,  125-143.

Wilson, S.J.; Lipsey, M.W. (2000). Wilderness Challenge Programs for Delinquent Youth: A
Meta-analysis of Outcome Evaluations. Evaluation and Program Planning, 23, 1-12.