Conversion: the "Three Day Miracle"

[Scout]

Hi Greg, I lived with Suzie C and knew her well.  I do not know the circumstances of which she left (do we ever get to know how anyone leaves except when they do it with Art's grace and support!) but I heard recently that she is in North Carolina and is living life.  

John and Pam disappeared from sight between the time I graduated in 1976(I think I remember them dating at the time)and the time I moved to ftlaud. I don't know where Maggie is.

Suzie (Art's niece) died tragically and unecessarily from cancer about 5-6 years ago and left behind a husb and 2 beautiful children.

I always wondered what happened to R Huff?  His death was treated so mysteriously?

I don't remember a rap on intercepting footballs from Art but the games were definitely fixed.  It was an unspoken thing, but if you got thru the line, you better not sack (two-hand touch) Art.  Going to the beach was fun, but every Sat and Sund for years...it got pretty old.  Not to mention nobody wore sunglasses because then you couldn't see someones eyes when you spoke to them.  I am sure they thought we would all try to be cool with sunglasses so that was not allowed.  I wonder how many of us will suffer from that in years to come.  How ridiculous many of the rules or unspoken rules were.  

bye for now,  Scout

[cleveland]

Well, it is so good to hear a voice from the time when I was involved with this, it validates my experience.  I'd love to hear from you.

It is interesting the way we were so segregated by gender, even as graduates. I remember being asked by staff to help one of the girls move a couch from their apartment, and it felt like such a privilege to talk with one ot the girls in their own space, like a normal person! When I left the seed, I was 26 years old and I had barely spoken to anyone of the opposite sex since I was 19. Dating was difficult, and I felt the need to tell anyone that I was interested in about my cult-ish experience, which was difficult because I barely understood it myself.

It's interesting to me that you were able to keep in touch with other graduates and maintain friendships. When I left in '86 it was a complete break, and had to be because I was still living in a group apartment, going to raps, taken home newcomers, etc. So - I had to sneak out and start over completely.

Elsewhere on this thread Ginger says she didn't know she couldn't have been forced into the seed by the late 70s, and Greg talks about violence. I think for those of us who were there in the later days, it was coercion from the inside. We were taught we couldn't make it on our own, and that the seed was infallable. As a newcomer, I definitely felt compelled to stay, with oldcomers poking me in the back to sit up, staring me down, yelling at me in raps, and having an arm around my shoulder whenever I left the building - not to mention the humiliation of being strip searched, having to leave the bathroom door open, etc.

Earlier I said cult-like. I think I modify it because, although we were compelled to completely conform to the Seed standards, we weren't being asked to do anything immoral or violent - in my day. We were just supposed to marginalize our personalities completely to the group, which was harmful. But no one asked us to drink toxic Kool-aid.

But - it was quite an adjustment to being on my own, and to this day, it influences the way I experience life. Like you, I spend a pretty big chunk of my formative years voluntarily (sort of) attached to the program. Thinking I was helping to save the world. And like you, I had doubts that finally lead me to leave.

Finally, I hope you are doing well with your life, I think I am, and I can really say I am happy. Can you believe it is 20 years or so since you left?



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Wally Gator[ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2005-08-24 12:08 ]

[Antigen]

I wonder how the group has changed since Art officially retired and shut down The Seed. I can't imagine they just quit being a cult.

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln

[RicciC]

Hi Greg Ricci here, just doing some reading on past posts . I lived at Cranbrook around '76 with Hank (before he became staff) and a couple of other guys. I hated evey munute of it and moved out about a month later I left the Seed.

[Johnny G]

I think I lived at cranbrook sometime in the 78-83 range (I think that is where we had been using a bar as a book shelf - rolled it down the steps when we were moving out) - I think Dave B and Jeff N lived there as well.  

I think the 78-83 (my years there) era had less physical violence and more mental violence - it was obvious that everyone else had it going on and for you to question it showed how fucked up you were, and everyone ws there to support that.  

The raps about the best staying, it was a priveledge, it was harder, etc. reinforced the notion that leaving was "bad" and because we love you we will show you the error of your ways.  

The fact that many of us did not have cars was a limiting factor as well.

I remember when Wayne A got a car, I thought he was going to get started over.

I think the fact that no one ever came around and told anyone they were going and where and why made it seem all the worse - they just becaame an unperson.  

A few people seemed to come and go but I always felt that suggesting that I wanted to do something else would result in my stuff on the curb and loss of residence.

In retrospect it was really pretty easy to hang around - once I got assigned house duty during the aforementioned football games (I got my alone time at Arts house - no guilt involved).  Cliff picked out what was for dinner, I played chess with Seth many nights, I could play games (interact with the oppossite sex) at work (no other seed kids in my building).  

I got to where I lived in fear of being started over  -  I would lose my job and would be under surveillience again.

I will quit rambling now

G-man