FORMER CEDU STAFF

[ottawa5]

Look, if you want to ignore someone, the way to do it is to just not respond.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Even an Anon ought to be able to comprehend the concept.

As I indicated to someone earlier today, I really am at a stage in my involvement with this site that I would be prepared to just observe, but people keep addressing me, or attacking me outrageously, in a way that invites, perhaps demands, a response.

I mean, don't you see something humorous in somebody posting the query, "Is there any way we can ignore the Ottawas?"

BTW, to SOS, I will respond to your reasonable questions about what procedures reach the level of abuse, in my opinion, at least, but it is a large and important subject and will have to be addressed later in the week.

[Anonymous]

Ignore, ignore, ignore, folks. Please ignore!

[mikehunt]

On 2004-09-17 21:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ignore, ignore, ignore, folks. Please ignore!"

this is quite similar to peeking through your fingers as you cover your eyes.

[Deborah]

O5,
Your presence here is like pouring salt on a wound. You incite 'attacks'. One has to wonder if you get some pleasure out of it, and if that's what keeps you coming back.

Your post was amusing. Written with an air of superiority, yet you're right in there slinging mud. In your 'proper' way, of course.

Entertain this. You're offended by and criticize the language some use, yet your refined words in support of the program are offensive to survivors. Everytime you post I'm sure many feel just as compelled to respond to your 'attacks'.

Rational? Doesn't matter. That's the way it goes with opposing forces.

When will your thesis be complete? Since you have drawn your conclusions, what more information could you possibly need?

[Anonymous]

Laura's right, of course. The peeking. But, I hate to respond to O5. She's a supercilious bitch. Let's try to ignore her. She CLEARLY is taunting us and probably lying about her schooling. She never answers any real questions - like have you printed all your posts and shown them to your faculty. She has no idea about real ethics and how diagnostic terms are used in the real world. She is lying - she is not in school and I'd bet my house she has borderline personality disorder. Folks, we only feed her histrionics - OH, MY GOD, I SAID IT AGAIN!!!! I do not believe she is telling the truth about her schooling, or she would know the difference between diagnosing a person and talking about similarities. Can we just not respond to her? I mean, really not respond to her? She is only going to argue with us and try to look superior. Some here become upset and take up her bait. Believe me, she is trying to bait us! Ignore, ignore, ignore. Ignore. Interesting word here... think of it as ignoring the ignorant! Also, she had made a threat to all of us, not just that ex-staffer. Remember? She said something about lawyers. I think she may have edited that post, because the one she offers in this thread is not the one I remember - and I think SOS, who mentioned it. She has mentioned more than once printing out and chortling over how clever she is to do so. Oooohhhhh - O5 is SO POWERFUL! She is an unbalanced person with no boundaries. Oh, no! I did it again! Bad, bad me! My, oh my - pointing out the obvious!

See, the problem here is that we become more angry the more we interact with her. I certainly have. Ans she has, too. I remember reading in history something about the Nazis marching in Skokie, Illinois. A lot of Holocaust survivors lived there. The ACLU defended the Nazis' right to march there. It was Nazis or KKK... I don't remember. They were all Americans and it was in the '70s or '80s I think. Anyway, it almost feels like that here. You certainly can't compare the Holocaust to CEDU - not at all. That was mass murder. Still, the idea of someone stomping around intentionally hurting people who have already been hurt, and then feeling oh-so-triumphant every time you get a dig in and hurt those people. That's how she feels to me. She's a wretched bitch and doesn't give a damn about you. She only wants to argue with you and feel superior.  

How are some of you doing post-CEDU? Any recurrent nightmares or stuff like that? Do you ever hear the music from the propheets - if so, what does that do to you?

[ottawa5]

Concerning this Anon---

I think, by writing style at least, this is the Anon who makes claims of being a clinician.

Still hard to believe since the antics and accusations in this and other posts would likely risk losing licensure---but perhaps this character is unlicensed to start with.

Unemployed too, I bet, if this is the typical presentation or level of thinking. Maybe very in need of a monetary judgment against a CEDU school.

I won't talk personality disorders diagnoses on a web site---it would be pointless as well as unethical. But just on a human basis, this person doesn't strike me as terribly insightful or at all professional--it is more like someone using buzz-words to try to sound professional.


For example, on an observational level, I notice that there is this repetition of the exact same words, the exact same phrases from one of post to another.  There are alternating attempts within a post to appear oh-so-sensitive, followed by some really spiteful comment or outlandish accusation, often using (or misusing) psychological terms. There is this power dynamic: the tone of "rallying the troops", of trying to get everyone to agree to ignore me (on the basis of Anon's "professional" advice) as well as this sense that I personally have some obligation to provide this information or that, as if it is somehow this clown's business to have it.

Well I like a mystery as much as the next person but there is really no way to say if this person is a real psychologist (albeit a pretty poor one), someone playing a game, or anything else with certainty.  The medium of an internet site just doesn't allow it.

And this is the problem with Anon postings, is this Anon really one person, or different people, affecting a similar style? Interesting, but not possible to know for sure, I'm afraid.

So, as I've said before, anyone who wants to ignore me, go ahead, it's really no hardship for me at this point.  But for heaven's sake, do so because you decided, on your own, that it was a good idea, not because of someone like the odd, possibly bogus Anon in the previous post told you that you had to.





[ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-09-18 06:05 ][ This Message was edited by: ottawa5 on 2004-09-18 06:07 ]

[Anonymous]

Always time to engage in analyzing another's opinion or writing style, never time to answer the questions posed in this and other threads. :roll:

Her agenda and strategy has shifted. Her future ramblings to 'attacks that demand a response' will include her imaginings that there is some kind of 'groupthink' happening at Fornits.  :lol:

My suggestion is that survivors stick to asking relevant and important questions of her, regarding the 'ethics' of the abuse passed off as therapy. Share your experiences and ask her to defend the usefulness of the methods.

What parents who read this forum need to know is that the abuse does not occur as isolated incidents, but is inherent in the ignorant, experimental methods employed by the program on a daily basis. Their methods wouldn't fly in the real world, hence her/their avoidance of direct questions regarding the appropriatness of such 'therapy'.

[Son Of Serbia]

Many of us have asked questions to Ottawa5 regarding how she would defend specific abuses that we have seen or experienced, she either ingnores them, states that she will answer said questions at a future time, or rationalizes it away with some huge explanations, that give people a headache to read, and never really answers the question, or dismisses it completely.  She's very good at what she does.  I think this is what frustrates people the most about Ottawa.

You know ANON you seem alright, I'm starting to like you.  I do wish however that you would gives us some kind of name, so I know what to call you.  Just right it up inside your post, it can be whatever; "One smart MF" if you want.

As for Ignoring the Ottawas, this to me would also be ideal, but I don't think that it's possible to do at this time.  They just Piss Off waaaay to many people, present company included!

To me, the Ottawas are prime examples of that same close minded, "how dare you question what we do?","Only we can save you from destroying yourself!" Abusive mentality from which Cedu School justified treating me like some sub-human criminal piece of shit for 1-1/2 years.  To Cedu I was the "scum of the earth," and they tried everything within and beyond their means to force me to believe that, BUT CEDU COULD NEVER BREAK ME!  

Bearing this in in mind, to me the Ottawas do serve a function here, they are the voices of my enemy.

I'm in a personal war with Cedu here, the number one rule in war is : KNOW YOUR ENEMY! the Ottawas present a perfect opportunity for doing that.  I equate engaging the Ottawas and rattling their cages to the feeling I had when I would do the same to Cedu staff and the rest of the sheep 12 years ago. I always did get a sick kind of pleasure out of it, I still do!

Anyways ANON please post again, I find your views on Ottawa5 to be very insightful and refreshing.





.

[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-09-18 09:49 ]

[Son Of Serbia]

WOW, Look I made it to the "100 Club", WHOOOOOOPIEE!!!!! ::rocker::

[Ottawa2]

You know this is by far one of the most amusing things I have ever seen!
You insult my mother for not responding to some question people ask her, you you were self have not answered many question! So its ok for you to do that but not my mother? :wave:

[mikehunt]

i think you guys need to grow the fuck up.
if ottawa wasn't here, shit would be even more boring than these childish stab sessions; this would just be a gung-ho anti-cedu rally which lacked variation.
i'm the type who appreciates the presence of anti-protestors at protests.  shit is so dull when everyone agrees.  having a person with a dramatically different view amidst a heated conversation makes the conversation fascinating.  i don't know, maybe i'm the only one who gets bored with people who are constantly agreeing with me.

on the real tho, everybody has something to add in one way or another be it direct or indirect.  be wise and make the best from your resources... and hey, your theories are weak until you efficiently exercise them against resistance.

[Deborah]

SOS,
That was my post, didn't bother to log in.

Yes, I know some reasonable and important questions have been asked, not only of O5 but many other program parents and advoctes. When the rubber meets the road they avoid, deny, or minimize the 'treatment'. Standard MO.

I just happen to think the best stategy is to keep putting the ball in their court- recount your experience and ask them to explain how it is 'therapeutic'. Be factual as and specific as possible with your accounts.

While you're probably not going to change THEIR minds, it will serve to educate parents who may come here to get a different perspective on the industry. If they are savvy at all, they will notice the continued avoidance of specific questions, and inability to justify the methods. It speaks volumes.

I think this is one of the worst secrets in the idustry and needs to be exposed. Do the means justify the ends. Exactly what does the 'therapy/treatment' entail. In very specific detail.

Many parents are duped- give a manual outlining the procedures and methods but it is intentionally vague and general. It doesn't address many of the methods used well enough that a parent can determine if it is actually beneficial. The program does not go into detail about how the child will be punished.  That is deceptive and fraudulent. Kids should not be subjected to the many experimental processes employed by programs.

So, ignore the ramblings and keep bringing the discussion back to what is important. They are here, in the courtroom, so to speak. Put them on the stand and don't let them weasle out. Parents who happen by will be the ultimate judge/jury.

[manchester]

02, your mother has refused to answer civil questions. I don't blame you for anything, because you are her child and still young. However, she has come one here and insulted many posters. If you think about it, these kids have been hurt and she is hurting them any more. Think about it. She has threatened to talk with attorneys about many of our posts - we all remember this - but I certainly can't find the post. I see one where she threatened one person. But there was a global threat.

Considering how many posts she puts out there, she is very, very involved here. Why is that? How does she have the time? Where does she find the energy? And I would be very concerned about her work as a clinician.

She has identified me as more than one person, I think. She puts effort into trying to link one anon post with another. I am one of those who said she looks borderline. She does. I don't care what she says about me. She does. Her behaviors - long, extensive posts with lots and lots of affect - emotion - putting all that time and effort - printing out posts to "catch" people. That's all borderline stuff. The one question asked of her regarding this - will you print out ALL of your posts and show them to your clinical supervisor - has been ignored. As far as I know, she has never answered this question. Frankly, if she does answer it, I expect she will lie. I mean, really... look at all of them. This is not the behavior of a normal middle-aged person. And certainly not of a clinician worth her salt.

Therefore, I've said I think she's lying about a number of things. And she certainly looks like a person with borderline personality disorder - but that is not to say that I'm diagnosing her here, as she has said has been done. She continues to say it's unethical of me and others to say this - she needs to go back to her ethics class. There is nothing unethical about saying something looks like something - even in posts.

It is interesting that she has tried to identify me, but she has been way, way off base all times. Why does she try? Why does she care? Why doesn't she give HER real name? She is very intelligent and I hope you inherited those genes. And I wonder, where is your brother? Why hasn't he posted? I expect that he would be mortified by your mother's posts. Why don't you have him log on and look at her extensive history of postings?  I'm telling you, it's not normal. She needs therapy - if her school is any good at all, they will require it, because the best ones do.

On 2004-09-18 10:41:00, Ottawa2 wrote:

"You know this is by far one of the most amusing things I have ever seen!

You insult my mother for not responding to some question people ask her, you you were self have not answered many question! So its ok for you to do that but not my mother? :wave: "

[manchester]

I asked if we could ignore O5. I would love to. She's a real bitch (oh, my - another 4 letter word!) but you guys make a point. It would be boring if we didn't have someone truly horrible to add flavor. Every protagonist requires an antagonist for interest! I do get sick of her long, rambling diatribes. Where does she find the time? Have you looked to see how many times she's posted? What the hell?!?!?!

So, maybe we are stuck with her. I like the point (did Deborah make it?) that she provides an opportunity for potential parents to see what brainwashing can occur and how she ignores the real pain and anger here.

[CEDU IS A CULT]

I no longer respond to Ottawa2 or Ottawa5, because it has become obvious that they are the same person.  Look at their post times.  It makes no sense.  Then, examine how she spells certain words differently each time, attempting to appear as a different person.  It doesn't jive with the claim of being a "dyslexic teenager."  It is so transparent.  Ottawa you are clearly insane, obsessed, and need serious medical help.  I can give you my mom's phone #.  She's the program director at a major board and care.

Clearly, CEDU school, is very scared about this site.  I have talked to quite a few parents, and I'm sure we've cost CEDU millions of dollars of potential earnings.  Now, they're sending in moles - first it was "maximus", then "ottawa", now its "just trying."  

What will they try next!  I'm proud to call you guys my friends.  We are making direct hits daily and they're scared.