Why I Post Anomalously

[Anonymous]

Why I Post Anomalously

There have been some good comments regarding anonymous  posts.  Are the comments "real", or is someone stooging for one organization or another?  Certainly, ownership of one's remarks -- and stating your name is certainly taking ownership -- gives one's comments credibility.

A couple  of weeks ago I posted comments on the Forum covering Thayer Learning Center (09/04/01).  In summary, I  reported that Thayer seemed to be working very well for our son.  I did post my e-mail address in case anyone wanted to contact me. Among the responses I received  (besides a wholesale attempt to send me viruses) was the following from one Devlin Graves:  [Spelling Unchanged]

"i just sent a copy of your post on the Fomits Board and sent it to the
Divsion of Family Servies in Missouri. What you admitted that goes on in Thayer is child abuse and you by keeping your kid there you are now a party to it. Congragulations the DFS will find your identity and hunt you down and i hope they lock you up, and take your kid away! You should be spaded and neudered. Your no parent.."

Now, I am not acquainted with Mr. Graves; and must admit that I would not care to be.  My question is, how many of you, should your post not agree with Mr. Graves' views, would want him to have your name?  I think that most of you would agree that Mr. Graves appears to be a few cards short of a full deck.  While the Forums certainly stimulate certain individual's passions, there is not always a corresponding stimulation of the intellect; or for that matter, English grammar and spelling.  

For my part, I will continue to posta anomalously.

Oh and yes, Mr. Graves, the correct words are, "Spayed and Neutered".

Nemo

[Deborah]

Well Nemo if you can let go of your anal retentive need for others to spell correctly, you might see Mr. Graves' point, which you didn't respond to - except to indirectly warn other parents who condon the abuse of their teens to reamin anonymous so as not to be reported.
The techniques you described are considered abusive to the general population, and the fact that a teen is causing their parent some grief does not justify incarceration and abuse. We are no longer in the stone ages.

It's very likely that before your child caused you grief that you may have caused him a great deal of grief. Shall we lock you away and torture you until you become a better parent and get over your anal retentiveness?

Devlin's spelling obviously wasn't bad emough to interfere with your understanding. If it had been, you could've asked for clarification. No, you are angry that he took action against you for condoning the abuse of your child. Perhaps that information will make it into the right hands so that you, and they, might be educated and 'disciplined'.

So, where Nemo, would you draw the line between discipline and abuse? It's obviously way right of the more intellegent in this society- some who don't spell well.

The ability to spell and use proper grammar does not constitute intellegence or courage, as is proven on a daily basis.


Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde inervtisy,

it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a

wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the

frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.

The rset can be a totla mses adn you can sitll

raed it wouthit porbelm.

Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed

ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

[Anonymous]

On 2004-09-05 15:39:00, Deborah wrote:

"
<
It's very likely that before your child caused you grief that you may have caused him a great deal of grief. Shall we lock you away and torture you until you become a better parent and get over your anal retentiveness?


<
 Deborah ... tisk tisk... another juvenile post here on the Fornits Board - imagine that!  

 Nemo -
  I hear ya loud and clear.  I choose not to state my name for very similar reasons, and I've read through these posts long enough now that I realize the mentality of the majority of posters here --- many disgruntled teens who's parents took action when they're behaviors became beyond normal, and they didn't like it - boo hoo, so they seemingly choose to be pissed off for life, and formed a little club to bitch and complain.
  I am a graduate of one of the programs they say is a Torture Chamber (laughable), from almost 20 years ago, and I got a LOT out of that program that I still use today.  Sure, I was pissed at 16 yrs old having to go into a program, long-term, that I didn't like, but I GOT OVER IT, learned something and moved on in life (better off, actually) --- I was failing school before entering the program, then went back and made honor roll.
  Anyway, just know by coming to this site on the Internet, you are not dealing (for the most part) with healthy, well-balanced adults.  Obviously, you know this now by the pathetic email you received.  I'm totally not surprised by it though.
  Good luck with everything.  I know it's not easy what it is you're going through ...

[BuzzKill]

OK guys - you got your butts ripped for supporting Teen programs. The reaction was extreme; even maybe a little crazy. Before you write the whole thing off as just a bunch of unbalanced blather, you really ought to look at where this point of view is coming from. There are good reasons for extreme reactions. Take the time to learn about how bad things can be; and then come back and talk.

http://www.isaccorp.com/thayer.html
http://www.nospank.net/azboys.htm
http://www.nospank.net/bacon2.htm
http://www.nospank.net/paisley.htm
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.homestead.c ... elleSutton

[Anonymous]

BuzzKill,

  Yes, I've seen/heard of those incidents before (from your links). Sad and unfortunate for sure. However, to say these programs are "abusive", and/or torturous, are not valid claims in an OVERALL sense.  Incidents MAY occur, just like they do by abusive parents, or shotty nurses in normal hospitals, or careless workers at daycare facilities.  Shall we protest and try to shut down ALL medical hospitals and day care facilities too??

  Tell me... how many teens have gone through or been in a "treatment program", and it resulted in death compared to the numbers overall??
  If you had a poor experience in a program, and don't like them, then DON'T go into another OR place your child there. Ripping another parent up and down for looking for help with their child, os NOT helpful or necessary.
   Give them a BETTER option, if you have one.  (And don't go into the "if they were a better parent to begin with, their kid would have never gotten into trouble" speech--- can't go back.)

[Deborah]

Tisk Tisk anon who is afraid to use her name.
Not that you will be forthcoming but-

Which program did you attend?
Do you work in the industry now?
Why after 20 yrs, and 'moving on', are you monitoring industry message boards?
Where do you draw the line between discipline and abuse?
Do you condon what Nemo described as appropriate treatment of teens?
Why don't you invite Nemo to the ST message board?

Perhaps I should post anonymously as well, then you wouldn't have a real person to target with your rightous venom.
Like a good program girl you stalk me and judge my 'mentaliy' without revealing anything about yourself. Is that something they taught you in program? Hide behind a bag, take no responsibility for your sarcastic comments, stay anonymous so no one can confirm or dispell your claims? Hell, no one can even track your posts. You are not mature, balance, healthy, transparent or responsible. Sounds more like you learned well how to judge and manipulate.

[Deborah]

Tisk Tisk, Nemo sounds like a grown up. I don't think he needs a 36 yr old, program patriot to defend him or speak for him. Don't you have something else to do?

And, refering back to your advice regarding ripping people up. It's very disrespectful for you to come to a survivor site and say such rude things about people who had horrendous experiences. Do you think your comments were mature, healthy, balanced?
"boo hoo, so they seemingly choose to be pissed off for life, and formed a little club to bitch and complain."
"you are not dealing (for the most part) with healthy, well-balanced adults."

 :lol:
Surely if you've been here long you know that your "evaluation" of parents is a waste of time. Did it occur to you to send Nemo a private message or did you choose to use this as an opportunity to anonymously slam survivors and parents. I think you are a liar and a coward.

[BuzzKill]

// Ripping another parent up and down for looking for help with their child, os NOT helpful or necessary. //

I Agree.
Others disagree.
Such is the nature of life.
My concern has to do with a *Type* of program, and the mindset that abuse and neglect are acceptable methods to make a kid regret their past behavior;  'see the light' and make a change.
Not only does it not work, it kills kids. Those who survive are going to be dealing with a lot of unpleasant fall out.
Thayer seems to fit the description of this type of program.
Capt. Nemo has come to a board built around opposition to such programs and defended one. This is bound to draw all kinds of fire and is to be expected.
I regret the suggestion he be neutered; that is counter productive and likely to solidify his notion that all in opposition are wakko and close his mind like a steal trap against the possibility he should consider other options.

//Yes, I've seen/heard of those incidents before (from your links). Sad and unfortunate for sure. //

I would say more like horrible beyond belief and outrageous in the extreme.
So you have heard about these events - Have you actually read the accounts? Do you realize how callous to human suffering the staff were? How ignorant and hateful? Do you realize this is the norm, in the Type of program of concern here? This is what you get when you buy a punitive 'boot camp' program. A program designed to break a kid down for modifying. Its dangerous.[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2004-09-06 07:45 ]

[Nihilanthic]

Hello, anonymous and non-anonymous!

Anyway, this made me want to reply:

" Incidents MAY occur, just like they do by abusive parents, or shotty nurses in normal hospitals, or careless workers at daycare facilities. Shall we protest and try to shut down ALL medical hospitals and day care facilities too?? "

" Tell me... how many teens have gone through or been in a "treatment program", and it resulted in death compared to the numbers overall??
If you had a poor experience in a program, and don't like them, then DON'T go into another OR place your child there. Ripping another parent up and down for looking for help with their child, os NOT helpful or necessary. "

Hmm... well, see, you don't close them all down, as hospitals and treatment is actually necessary, but you don't just ignore the problem, and you  :grin:

But JUST incase you don't feel like clicking a link, I'll paste a few key points for you!

Get a ?reality check? from school officials, teachers, family, and friends to help assess the seriousness of the child?s behavior problems.
Explore local options first, and look for a therapy program that works with the whole family, not just the teen.
Invest in physical and psychological assessments that will define the child?s problem and point to appropriate remedies.
Hire an educational consultant who works only for the family (and does not receive a commission from schools).
Investigate the schools in person, and also check with the parent watchdog groups (listed below) to avoid the worst offenders.
Ask a lawyer to review enrollment contracts before signing them.
And finally, stay in contact with the child throughout their stay in a residential facility so that you can move them out quickly at the first sign of trouble. <- thats the only thing I'd ask you to do right now. Surely you'd know someone who was making money off of your kid wouldn't necessarily say something that might get him taken out, or let him say it, now don't you?

I apologize for my long post, and I probably have some bad grammer and speeling. But I don't care about it. And if you can't handle sarcasm go play in the highway.

[Kiwi]

A somewhat paradoxical phenomenon, well known among child abuse specialists, is that of the victims of abuse often going on to commit abuse themselves.  It seems this also applies to those who subcontract the abuse.

[Devlin]

This is Devlin Graves I have to put my two cents in. You think I am a few cards short of a deck! I know i am crazy! What about you? This fucked up program parent doesn?t even have one card in their deck.

  By the way you should be concerned the e-mail did arrived in the right hands to someone very high up in the DFS (I know for a fact they got it and it reached the right person).

   To show how few cards short of a deck you really are, you first admit that things go on in Thayer. That is considered child abuse! Then you go one step further and your stupid ass admits you are still leaving you son at Thayer, thus becoming a party to child abuse! Next you come on here and post my private e-mail I sent you and say your safe because you posted anonymously! You stupid fuck! Don?t you realize e-mail addresses can be tracked to the owners! So what if i didn't have your name your e-mail adress is more than enought to give to the DFS. If they (Missouri DFS)wants to they can track you by your e-mail address and hunt you down like the dog you are!!!! I guess i am smarter than i look!!! You S.O.B!!!

  Also The people I sent you post to in the DFS don?t like what goes on in places like Thayer and especially parents who know about what goes on and still leave their kid in there anyway! This type of stuff tends to piss off the DFS big time! If I were a betting man I would bet on the DFS having you for dinner!
[ This Message was edited by: Devlin on 2004-09-07 02:18 ]

[Devlin]

In private i have been refered as a loose cannon. I think they are right. God only knows where i will hit next! Maybee Victory Christian Academy or who knows where else. Maybee Thayer Learning Center. I just hit Mountain Park Academy badly. Yes it was a direct hit.

Your in the cannons sites now program parent from hell. Good luck. By they way when i hit someone i hit them with the truth and hit hard and dont take any prisoners.

If you was a smart person you would take your son out of Thayer and run!!! Who knows the DFS may be chasing you right now!! I would get you son and take the head start you have.[ This Message was edited by: Devlin on 2004-09-07 02:37 ]

[Nihilanthic]

He's set in his opinion that its "best for his son" PERIOD and even if he is being hurt he doesn't care, its whats best for him. It could be a case of cognitive dissonance because he doesn't want to face that he might be wrong. Its like trying to convince a religious person to ponder that there might be a god, for an athiest that there is. The only person who could ever possibly get it through to him is himself. Maybe his kid, maybe not.

I wonder, when people say being beaten/suffering is good for them (or someone else like their kids) if I beat them and make them suffer, is it a favor?  :: Just curious is all.

Or beating your opinion into them. Should I not be able to do it to them just as they do it to others?

If I ever abused a kid or killed a kid once I go to jail but he looks at averages that only a small percentage of kids die. Lovely! Or its okay to break laws and hurt and make people suffer if its a kid because its good for them! Oh wait, if I did that to him it would be WRONG!

Funny how things never go both ways with them huh.

[Anonymous]

Hi Anonymous...check your own spelling and grammatical content. Please don't be side tracked by this person being a lousy speller. Some of the smartest people I know can't spell and have to many ideas to put on paper to slow down and check for the MLA format. (Oh and by the way most people for whom spelling matters hire a grunt english major to do the editing for them.) Do you really feel sending you this e-mail merits going back to check content so you won't go over it with a red correction marker? My but it sounds like you think the world revolves around you. What would your therapist say about that?

[Anonymous]

well said by a "Program Parent" wouldn't that be you Deborah?