Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones

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Tiffany:
well, you seem to think that Cedu is the place to be.  what i am going to tell you is not my PERCEPTIONS, since you think we're all just blowing smoke.  these are facts.  I was at Ascent almost 10 years ago.

1.) I had a yeast infection while i was there.  I was NOT ALLOWED to wash the applicator for the cream.  when i complained and said that was unsanitary i was told that it was my problem, not theirs.

2.) I was given toothpaste 3 times while i was there.  3 days out of 50 days that i was there.  because of that, my gums started eroding and when i came home i went through very painful gum surgery 3 times within a year.

3.) We were not allowed to shower for the first 3 weeks i was there.  NOT ALLOWED to be clean.

4.) Scabies went around and we all had to do a scabies treatment.  Very clearly on the bottle the warning included "Do not come in contact with eyes.  Causes blindness"  After applying the cream, we were NOT ALLOWED to wash our hands.  when we complained they told us it was not their problem if WE WENT BLIND.

5.) They refused to send a letter to my parents where i said i had a rough week.  They ripped it up in front of me and told me that i needed to re-write it and "tell them how great it is here" (exact quote), that if i didn't say that, i would sleep in the snow for a week.

6.) I complained that my feet were very cold, and that i needed to warm them up.  They told me it was my problem.  A week later a staff member who actually cared sometimes, was preparing us for course, and was showing us how to warm somebody's feet in case of them being too cold, and used my feet for an example.  He was shocked by how cold they were and YELLED at me for not saying anything.  When i told him i did, he YELLED at me again for listening to the other staff.  by that time it was already too late, and to this day, one of my toes is still numb.

this is one of the programs you are defending.  These are facts, not perceptions.  God help your soul you stupid Cedu cunt.

Anonymous:
I have to say that although Tiffany describes the Ascent portion of CEDU, it is also reminiscent of CEDU school where there seemed to be a blatant disregard for true medical conditions (it was manipulation, according to the school.).  I myself and others have experienced this.

Also, it is disturbing that they monitored and forced us to re-write our letters.  We all knew better than to write our concerns or feelings or fears, so our letters were all phony. EVERY single solitary student understood this censorship and would never ever suffer the consequences of writing anything derogatory about the school or question our experience.  

This sort of censored and limited contact is very alarming because parents do not know what is really going on with their children... If anything negative slipped out, boy were you in trouble.  Second, they then told your parents that it was just further testimony of their child's manipulation.  I find this absolutely frightening. The worst is that over time, you don't even question it anymore.  

Now that I'm out, it was a real revelation to find out they say the same STOCK things to every parent... Even their messages home were just stock quotes and pretty laughable actually.  

I didn't act out at CEDU so every once in awhile, to make sure I was doing "the work", the family head would confront me in a rap using taunts and sometimes untrue miscellany, until I was provoked into defending myself and they would say "ohhh, the bitch is out."  But who here would allow someone to say untrue or abusive things to them and just let it go? At least I didn't say untrue/abusive things to them in retaliation.

I think this might be PART of the reason why Ottawa elicits so much vitriol.  Because we feel like she is denying our experiences and  calling us liars and that really, really, really pisses us all off.

Cypress:

--- Quote ---On 2004-07-27 20:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I have to say that although Tiffany describes the Ascent portion of CEDU, it is also reminiscent of CEDU school where there seemed to be a blatant disregard for true medical conditions (it was manipulation, according to the school.).  I myself and others have experienced this.

--- End quote ---


I remember the first time I asked for tylenol because of cramps.  I was swiftly informed that it was all in my head and to just get over it.  Somehow I was using my cramps as a manipulation tool. To this day, I haven't been able to figure out the link between menstrual cramps and manipuation.

ottawa5:
My son went to Ascent just before he went to RMA and while he described it to me as very, very rugged and the staff as very confrontory, some of this stuff that you are describing sounds unnecessary and abusive and even medically dangerous.  I think that you can have a wilderness program that is pretty demanding without resorting to that.

I don't know what to make of your description, it happened a bit before we were involved with the school so that might be the explanation, or it may have to do with bad staff, out of control.

I am absolutely convinced that getting reasonable but firm staff has to be one of the biggest challenges of running one of these places, especially in a front-line place like Ascent.

So I agree with you there is no excuse for ignoring medical assistence---a little while with deprivation of showers to get your attention may not be over the top, although there is a limit, and, if the level of deprivation is causing outbreaks of scabies then that is something else too. I still maintain that there has to be some level of confrontation but here again there has to be limits.

I wanted to address your other comment made today about my fighting with other posters rather than paying attention to posts like yours. This is valid, just by hearing from you I learn another dimension of what can go wrong with one of these programs and I plan, if I ever develop one, to do it right.  

Now, to many of you at this site, there is no right way, but I don't believe that.  And that makes some people attack me in the rudest possible ways.

Well, I like to think of myself as someone trying to do good, but I never claimed that I was any little angel and when people attack me unfairly, I hit back, just as I hope that I would do if they were attacking anyone else unfairly. I am not one to sit still and be someone's meek little whipping boy even if something bad happened to them in the past.

And I am pretty skilled at hitting back, especially when the attacker is a real SOB, which makes it kind of reinforcing to do.  I don't intend to stop, either, but your point is well taken: it may be a matter of  using one's best energy for really central things, and using the residual for fighting.

Tiffany:
i do appreciate it.  

i do agree with you that a confrontational approach can work sometimes.  but, these staff members didn't care.  these are my perceptions, but i think from what i am going to tell you, you will understand why i am saying that.

one day, i refused to take the garbage to whereever it needed to go.  instead of telling me "you will do this or........(fill in the blank)" i had two MALE staff members RESTRAIN me.  i did nothing to them, except say "i will not take out the garbage, i don't feel like it".  they restrained me.  for no reason at all.  i made no move to physically confront them at all.  that is not right.

there was a staff member who told kids to fuck off, when they would go to him with a problem.  and i'm serious, for no reason.  for an example, one afternoon, there was no female staff there.  we ran out of tampons, and one of the girls told him we were out of tampons and he said "too bad, fuck off".  that is totally uncalled for.

my parents sent me there to work on my problems.  there was not one time that my problems were even addressed in a positive, or encouraging manner.  in a "rap", sex was brought up, and when i said i wasn't a virgin, another male staff member started calling me a slut.  i said "i'm not a slut", and after that, whenever he saw me, he always called me a slut, never ever called me by name.  do you know how much that hurts?  to this day, it hurts me and is bringing tears to my eyes as i am typing.  the same staff member who told us all to fuck off, also started calling me another nickname, that was as equally degrading.  one day i started crying because of it, and he of course told me to fuck off, and grow up.  this is a staff member, not another kid!

one day, i was having a very bad day, with a lot of memories, and things that went wrong, and the reasons i was there.  i tried to talk to one of the other girls that was there, and i got in trouble!  i said "well, aren't we here to work on our problems and to talk?" and the staff told me no.  exact quote here "we also have problems in our lives, that are way more important than your's.  and we can't just stop and talk about them whenever we feel like it.  oh, and they are WAY more important than your problems."  i mean, hello!  that is why my parents spent that kind of money for me to go there.  so i could work on my problems!  and then i'm told that my problems aren't important?  and then they were totally ignored?  ever since then, i have had such a hard time talking about my feelings.  because of some stupid fucking un-licensed staff who told me that my problems aren't important, and ignored them.  they were paid to be there to help us!  and if we didn't want to talk, they were supposed to confront us about our problems, not make us feel even worse for having feelings.  these people weren't even licensed therapists, for crying out loud.  

I'm not sure what to think of you Ottawa.  in some of your posts, you seem like a Cedu plant.  in other posts, you do seem like a training psychologist.  Please, when you read this, if you are going to say something negative about my feelings, just please don't.  i am sitting here crying while i'm typing because of all the horrible memories i have of that place.  i really don't think i could handle somebody telling me that i'm blowing my smoke, or anything like that.  i'm 25 years old now, and i was there when i was 15, and writing about this hurts just as bad, and the pain is just as fresh as it was the day after i left that place.

please, if you are going to start a place like this, have licensed professionals working with these kids.  they deserve that, no matter what they did to be sent there.  and confrontation is good, if you are trying to get the kids to talk about their feelings, if they just want to sit there and be silent.  but name calling, and degrading people is not okay.  it's downright abuse.  and knowing that if you say anything back to them that you might have to sleep in the snow, or that you will be put on bans and not be able to talk to anybody, is torture, it really is.  

and to be honest, these are just a few more examples of what went on there.  i was there for only 50 days, and i have a ton more stories to tell.

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