Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Differences Between Straight and The Seed
Anonymous:
It seems that the Seedlings had a "deeper' connection and belief in soem of the leaders--like Lybbi. Did Straight have people that were put on a pedistal like they had soemthing special as human beings? Or were the connections colder and more distant among the group aad staff? Did straight have one unquestionable leader or did people question him/her? DId they say I Love You all the time at Straight. It seems that Straight was a chepa version of The Seed or did people at Straight really have a stronhold on the group in a way that the group beleived the leaders had some special connecyion from above? :idea:
Anonymous:
You know the Seed was more like that waco deal. At first it was a government experiment but t got outa the hands of the government. Not that waco was a government experiment but actually the Seed was and I heard people tell me that Art had a direct connection with God himself. I still don't know what that meant to the other Seedlings except there was something vry different from the Seed and the copycat programs.
Antigen:
You're right. Straight wasn't a personality cult in the way The Seed was/is. The authority of Staff, especially Sr. Group staff, was unquestionable and absolute. But it wasn't unheard of for a sr. staffer to get started over and someone else take their place.
When a well-packaged web of lies
has been sold gradually to the masses
over generations, the truth will seem
utterly preposterous and its speaker
a raving lunatic.
--Dresden James
--- End quote ---
GregFL:
differences between the Seed and The Straight....
1) Art Barker, a bonifide certifiable cult leader. Straight never had one...sure they had Miller Newton but that was before he rose to cult leader status in his own program.
2) Hippy dippy love. Straight didn't have it. The Seed was a cool aide love cult disquised as a drug rehab. The Straight only professed to "love you", the Seedlings in a bizzare creepy way really did.
3) The Seed had a shorter program. Art created a revolving door affect where you were there for usually six months to a year. The straight kept you longer because they had financial incentive to do so.
4) "professionals" on staff. The Seed didn't really have them as Art refused to let anyone tell him anything and ran the seed as you would expect a rogue cult leader to. the Straight professionalized the model and brought in "the professionals" which lead to additional treatment modalities that didn't really do anything but add additional layers of breaucracy to the model.
5) Disquised direction. Here we bring in the cult aspect of the Seed vs the Straight. The straight's mission was purely a drug rehab with the modality lifted from the Seed. They missed somtehing...Arts grand scheme to take over the nations youth and become the beloved all powerfull savior of america's youth. Art's real direction was to build a "seed army" and be the leader. The straight never had such aspirations.
6) Meaner edge...the straight wins this one hands down with the "restraint as punishment" modality. Seed never had it.
7) extreme motivation. The Seed took this idea that seemed innocuous at the time, show your "motivation" to be called on by waving your arms enthusiastically and snapping your fingers. The straight morphed this into something truly bizzare.
8 ) Professionalization of model. The Seed had a us vs the world cult modality. The Straight was primarly a business model which choose to blend into normal society and thusly got itself approved for insurance billing and was able to get the republican party behind their cause.
9) Kooky cultic relationships. Only the seed could bring you marriages approved by Art, Art marrying a kid old enough to be in the program, Art adopting staff members, inner circle beach outings, communal living, sexual rumours, etc, etc. This stuff was just to bizzare to be made up.
10) Occultism and/or mysticism. The Seed warped into something that believed in astrology and Art being able to read your mind.
11) Financial empire. Art created a financial empire, funding staff members into business and keeping his finances secret. Cash was brought in like a church. The straight in contrast created a professionalized payment model involving monthly payments and insurance billing that just plain didn't exist at the seed.
In Conclusion, The Seed was a bonifide cult disquised as a drug rehab. The Straight was a copy of the Seed, dropping most of the cultic aspect but sharpening the edges, professionalizing the model, and becoming a longer and meaner program.
Which was worse? Depends on your individual experience. Some will swear both were beneficial and others it seems from both places took their lives.....
I personally found the cultic aspect of the seed very harmfull to my family, my personality and my attempt at asserting my early individuality. It took me years to find my way and build my confidence back up, and even today there are lingering consequences to being forced into a thought reform cult at age 14.
Some people I know sailed thru and swear it was beneficial. Go figure.....
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-07-20 15:33 ]
Antigen:
I agree w/ most of your assessment. But I think you're missing something very important.
--- Quote ---On 2004-07-20 07:31:00, GregFL wrote:
"differences between the Seed and The Straight....
4) "professionals" on staff. The Seed didn't really have them as Art refused to let anyone tell him anything and ran the seed as you would expect a rogue cult leader to. the Straight professionalized the model and brought in "the professionals" which lead to additional treatment modalities that didn't really do anything but add additional layers of breaucracy to the model.
--- End quote ---
For the most part, the "professionals" on staff were hired for their titles. "Dr." Newton had his doctorate in social anthropology out of a correspondence school in Ohio. I was surprised to find that out just a few years ago, as nobody ever questioned that little detail. And why would they? You walk into a drug rehab and this middle aged man introduces himself as Dr. Miller Newton, you naturally enough assume he's a psychologist or something, right?
Same w/ Dr. Burns (education) and Dr. MacDonald (pediatrician) and, I'm sure, a good many others.
I think the objective was essentially the same; to keep the real professionals out. The difference being that Melvin is a whole lot more savvy than Art. Art seemed to really enjoy the "us against them" thing; raging against the world and all that while Mel had a more realistic plan for actually garnering meaningful influence and taking over the world. I think both men were hand picked by Bobby DuPont. Art was too full of himself to do something so subtle so Bobby (or whomever) kicked him to the curb and recruited a more qualified candidate to fill the position.
--- Quote ---5) Disguised direction. Here we bring in the cult aspect of the Seed vs the Straight. The straight's mission was purely a drug rehab with the modality lifted from the Seed. They missed somtehing...Arts grand scheme to take over the nations youth and become the beloved all powerfull savior of america's youth. Art's real direction was to build a "seed army" and be the leader. The straight never had such aspirations.
--- End quote ---
I disagree. Compare what DFAF has actually accomplished to what Art has accomplished over the last three decades. The Semblers are making public policy on the domestic and international levels, controling billions in public funding and have accoplished such a lock on the nation's youth that no school student is safe from random search of their cars, clothing, back-packs and even their bladders. And none of us can escape seeing their propaganda here and there, except to toss out the TV, turn off the radio, drive only on back country roads w/ no billboards and never read a newspaper. These fuckers are EVERYwhere!
--- Quote ---8 ) Professionalization of model. The Seed had a us vs the world cult modality. The Straight was primarly a business model which choose to blend into normal society and thusly got itself approved for insurance billing and was able to get the republican party behind their cause.
--- End quote ---
Again, I think they've done more than blend themselves into society. They've gone a long way toward blending society into their worldview through force of law.
--- Quote ---11) Financial empire. Art created a financial empire, funding staff members into business and keeping his finances secret. Cash was brought in like a church. The straight in contrast created a professionalized payment model involving monthly payments and insurance billing that just plain didn't exist at the seed.
--- End quote ---
Ditto. Art had some public funding. The Partneship for a Drug Free America has at least hundreds of millions in funding each year and controls, through public mandate, billions more in law enforcement funding, mandatory minimum sentencing (never forget that Jim Wackenhut and other of their cronnies are heavily invested in private prisons and prison services), property forfeiture, DARE, military aid to local law enforcement and the list goes on and on and on.
--- Quote ---In Conclusion, The Seed was a bonifide cult disguised as a drug rehab. The Straight was a copy of the Seed, dropping most of the cultic aspect but sharpening the edges, professionalizing the model, and becoming a longer and meaner program.
Which was worse? Depends on your individual experience. Some will swear both were beneficial and others it seems from both places took their lives.....
--- End quote ---
I think Straight had the same goal w/ more realistic, more professional business plan. They have accomplished much of their often stated objective of turning the whole world into the Program so that we (who were then stuck in group) wouldn't have to send our kids anywhere to get them indoctrinated.
History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan
--- End quote ---
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