Need Advice-Aspen ranch, Three springs

[worriedmom]

I am looking for a school for my 16 yr old son, who is a senior in high school. He had become addicted to marijuana in his junior year(which led to  lying, sneaking out, stealing, dropping grades...). He his very bright and has no LDs, nor has he ever needed any meds. He is currently in boot camp, off drugs, and doing very well. After speaking to a consultant, i have determined that he needs a school that offers structure, a challanging academic program, and a program that addresses substance abuse. I am looking at Three Springs in Alabama (Paint Rock valley) and Aspen Ranch. I would appreciaite any and all advice on these schools, or suggestions for others. He wants to go, he knows he needs help.

[FaceKhan]

First off, definitely wait till he comes home first before sending him somewhere else. He may have told you that he wants to go somewhere but that is not exactly a reliable thing since he is still at the boot camp which may have an interest in sending him to a long term program and can certainly "persuade" him to tell you he wants to go.

Be wary of consultants, many of them get direct commissions from schools they recomend and many of them have financial interests in some of those schools.

Unfortunately many long term programs billing themselves as "therepuetic boarding schools" or behavior modification are clever scams with very cult like programs. Definitely visit the place first, preferably unnannounced, and demand to see every room. Get staff credentials, find out from local and state authorities if the school has ever gotten in trouble or been closed down or has a lot of runaways.

Because in general marijuana is not a dangerous addictive drug, most genuine rehab programs will not accept people just for marijuana, and that leaves you with the juvenile only programs that tend to more harm than good because most of the kids there do not have a real drug problem.

[Antigen]

First, you've been duped already. Marijuana is not addictive. Lots of kids find out through firsthand experience that too much drug use interferes with accademic goals. Unles someone sabotages this valuable learning experience for them, the vast majority simply learn to moderate or abstain in order to meet their personal goals.

Sneaking out is only a sign that he probably thinks his cerfew is unreasonable or maybe he just did it for the sheer thrill of it.

I'm guessing it was the boot camp operator's (Tom Croak maybe??) idea to send him to the 'next level' of boarding school.

Do you really want advice? Instead of sending him off to one of Tom Croak's gulags to be roughed up by the professionals, just quit worrying about your kid and have a little faith in him. He probably doesn't need anything except for you to quit damning him as damaged goods and then trying to fix him. You just can't imagine how much good a little honest confidence and natural parental pride will do a young man (or woman) who's trying his wings and trying to become an adult. I know that, after my horrible experience with Straight, my father's confidence in me (against program advice... they called him a druggie and a codependent for NOT kicking me out of his home!) was all that sustained me through the harder times.

But if you're already resigned to treating this imaginary illness, then God help your son. I hope he makes it out of boot camp alive and without permanent injury and doesn't suffer too much damage from whatever you do to him next.

Little rough? Honey, this is nothing compared to what your boy is enduring face to face from some hard-assed drill sergent right now.

[GregFL]

first thing, do some research. Your son isn't an addict if he is just smoking dope. It may seem like it, but lady, it is not true. He very well may have a compulsive attitude and hence should stay away from weed, but addict, get serious!
Should you be locking him up for the rest of his teenage days? Bring him home, offer him structure, love and support. He soon will be 17, and you can't make him a baby forever. Boot camp is harsh enough for someone just smoking mj and having a grade and lying issue.
It is time to have faith in this bright young man. You both need help. He needs to find the proper support at home, and you need to shed some ignorance before he ends up a jaded man posting to one of these sites about how he will never forgive his parents for ruining his childhood.
Bring him home, encourage him to make a different set of friends, let him finish high school, get a job and enroll in college. This is what he needs.
If he fails from there, he will be an adult and have to revisit his problems.
sometimes, the cure is worse than the ailment. Sometimes, ignorance is the worst ailment of all.

[worriedmom]

Hmmm, maybe I should've explained in more detail. Since he has been in boot camp, one that I found myself and is not affiliated with any other organization, he has confessed to a $50 a day pot habit, and experimentation with extacy, mushrooms and LSD. He has been arrested twice, sold my jewelry, stolen thousands of dollars from family and friends (who are out to get him when he returns). He sneaks out and vandalizes others property. In order to get out, he cut the wires to our alarm system. He has been in 2 auto accidents and has only had his license since Jan. His grades went from a 3.0+ his entire life to a 1.14 last quarter. Both of his grandmothers are alcoholics. Every word out of his mouth is a lie. He worries about where his next $50 will come from. He is unhappy. I know pot is not physiologically addicting, but it is absolutely pyschologically addicting, and I speak from experience. The boot camp has no further motives. It ends in August and is only a summer program. He is enjoying it. He likes the structure, he likes being clean, and he wants to stay that way. He has no shot if he returns, he knows it and I know it. He'll be high within the hour with the low lifes he calls friends. He wants to go somewhere. Does this change your views? please, be honest...

[Antigen]

No one on this Earth can smoke $50 worth of pot a day. It's just not possible, the stuff is not that expensive.

It's surprising just how little sleep deprivation combined with physical intimidation, limited calorie intake and forced excercise along with emotional blackmail and total isolation it really takes to get a kid to confess to damned near everything.

Ask any former client of Straight how many of their fellow clients had anything even close to a serious drug problem and you'll find that nearly none of them had. Never-the-less, some of the parents believe to this day those confessions attained through raw torture.

If, after the first couple of weeks, my mother, father and our pastor had taken me outside (asif they would have been allowed unsuporvised communication!) and asked me, point blank, "Do you want to leave?" I would have thought it was a test and told them just exactly what I had to say to keep from getting punished. And I would have half believed it myself.

Maybe he's looting you and your friends because you don't believe a word he says and keep him locked in with electronic security? Maybe it's something else? Regardless, maybe your son is very troubled. But one thing's for sure, torture and brainwashing are not the answer. And that's all Tom Croke knows how to do. I woudn't trust anything he recomends and here he is pitching those very places you're asking about.

http://64.71.146.119/articles/topics/ca ... oswho.html


But please don't take my word for it. Take some of the good advice offered here and research these places. Demand proof that the people who will be holding your son essentially incommunicado are competent and NOT child abusers.

On 2002-07-26 19:28:00, worriedmom wrote:
Hmmm, maybe I should've explained in more detail. Since he has been in boot camp, one that I found myself and is not affiliated with any other organization, he has confessed to a $50 a day pot habit, and experimentation with extacy, mushrooms and LSD. He has been arrested twice, sold my jewelry, stolen thousands of dollars from family and friends (who are out to get him when he returns). He sneaks out and vandalizes others property. In order to get out, he cut the wires to our alarm system. He has been in 2 auto accidents and has only had his license since Jan. His grades went from a 3.0+ his entire life to a 1.14 last quarter. Both of his grandmothers are alcoholics. Every word out of his mouth is a lie. He worries about where his next $50 will come from. He is unhappy. I know pot is not physiologically addicting, but it is absolutely pyschologically addicting, and I speak from experience. The boot camp has no further motives. It ends in August and is only a summer program. He is enjoying it. He likes the structure, he likes being clean, and he wants to stay that way. He has no shot if he returns, he knows it and I know it. He'll be high within the hour with the low lifes he calls friends. He wants to go somewhere. Does this change your views? please, be honest...

[FaceKhan]

Antigen is right except for how much money one can spend on pot in a day. If you are buying high quality stuff you can spend upwards of $20 a gram or 50-60 an eighth and it is quite possible for someone to smoke an eighth in a day.

None of the drugs your son has tried are addicting or dangerous in and of themselves.  

A lot of people go through their wild years and end up better for it, don't let them tell you that he is ruining his life or going to end up in jail or dead because of pot. Millions of productive citizens smoke pot and tens of millions have tried it.

[AntiWriter]

I am sorry to inform you that for many; marijuana is not an addictive drug.  I do NOT smoke it nor would i encourage young people since the US government will keep them from obtaining "financial student loans."  

As far as stealing, he may have some problems that need "psychiatric attention" but I would NEVER EVER have sent a child to a "bootcamp situation" and will work as hard as I can in every way to expose their damaging effects.

So, be glad to get your son home in one piece. He could have been killed, maimed, and may suffer in the future from a permanent post-traumatic stress disorder.  If you are so eager to find a new placement for him could you find it within yourself to place him in (egads, oh my) your very own home!!!??

Of course, abusive parents (those that have children who would report THEM as child abuse is illegal and seldom prosecuted) only have to throw their kids off to the woods; maybe those children are at times (reading some posts; some kids say they were more abused, if possible, at home) better off and they will never come back and "squeal" on a parent with such ungodly power over their life...to decide to send them to heaven or hell.  That's a LOT of power.

I guess it shocks weekend parents?  I don't know.  I had a 14 year old stepdaughter who drove me batty but she is now away at COLLEGE SUCCEEDING and mostly I think because, I did not freak out on things as slight as an ocassional joint or those hormonal surges adolescents experience but let her live through it and come out a responsible person.  In fact I DEMANDED responsibility, good grades, and other details ALL THE WAY.  

The problem with a "bootcamp" is that
a) dangerous to life and limb (you don't ever know if there's a hidden health condition and there won't be a doctor near)
b) tough love causes a definate gulf between yourself and your child... why not send him off to war for smoking a cigar while you are at it as nicotine is an addictive drug (as is caffeine if you need a cup of java in the morning-- it would be regulated if we had CAFFEINE today!!!)
c) reward and punishment systems of therapy change behavior by creating "pavlovian conditioned responses" so read up on these things.
d) parents that don't have time should at least take the time not to inflict sadistic environments on their kids...
e) the morals of one person are NEVER the morals of another, I believe your son was CRYING OUT FOR HELP....
f) you probably feel "self righteous" yet is that the best motive?

I do think that this was not very kindhearted of you.  A change of environment is sometimes helpful but BOOTCAMP.  Jesus.  I hope you will send him to another relative next time or somewhere more stable if you cannot find a loving therapist with nerves of steel, that is what a parent should be...but how we all fall short, sadly...

[worriedmom]

After I stopped laughing from reading your posts, I must say that I am astonished at the total ignorance by those of you posting on this board. First of all, pot is addictive, if only pyschologically. I think you were all lobotimized at the programs you were subjected to. BTW, he is thriving at boot camp, feeling good about himself, and it is not as dangerous as listening to the rantings of all of you, who have no clue what you are talking about. The scariest thing is that some of you are parents. Please do not respond anymore, I won't be checking.

[FaceKhan]

Good go back to the other boards, like struggling teens, where they specialize in validation of parental fears and telling you what you want to hear. We are not in the feel good parent business, we have no interest in making you feel good about yourself or validating your belief that your son is the source of your family problems. We are in the telling the truth business. You came here asking about these programs and we told you things you did not want to hear. Free advice is seldom cheap.  

Bootcamps, even if the program was a model of accountability and safety would still be pointless because all the research indicates strongly that there is no long term behavioral improvement to be gained from juvenile boot camps whether state run or privately run.

Just remember that failure to do due dilligence or knowingly sending your kid to a concentration camp masquerading as a school is child abuse and punishable up to ten years in prison last I checked.


What scares me is what the parents of these programs are willing to do to protect their kid's tormentors. If it were up to me the whole industry from boot camps, to gulag schols, the entire involuntary juvenile treatment industry, should be banned without exception under penalty of death.

[Teen Advocates USA]

Bottom line is abuse sells at any price when viewed by parents as "enforced discipline".

A Personal Message to Worried Mom:

Unless you have spent the better part of your adolescence in a locked "special" purpose school, camp or program ruled by fear and intimidation, you can not begin to know what it feels like to be a child dependent upon greedy, sadistic, stupid ADULTS.  If you are sincere about helping your child, please consider letting him participate in evaluating all his options, instead of conspiring with program parents and officials, intake counselors,  and/or educational consultants to force him into residental treatment whether he needs it or not.  While it is understood that parents have the right to decide for themselves what is in the best interests of their child, it is incumbent upon you to do due-dilegence which includes listening to and respecting the opinion of those "who have been there" and surely have the best interests of your child in mind when they tell you to steer clear of any program that may violate the civil and human rights of children.        

Barbe
 



[ This Message was edited by: Teen Advocates USA on 2002-07-29 00:00 ]

[kaydeejaded]

God it is so depressing to read the worried mom's postings. She is not too worried if she has her son in a potentially lethal situation. Pot is not addicting. There are millions of documents on the internet alone that support this FACT. Maybe mom if you stop laughing you can research 1- pot 2- death rates in bootcamp and really can you tell me why you ask questions you do not want the answers to ... that is counterproductive...maybe you need bootcamp ....all you'll get is some excersise

freedomlover, kady

[Deborah]

[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2002-08-28 00:11 ]

[Anonymous]

If you are dead set on this, you might be pleased to know there have been no deaths at Aspen Ranch.  I don't know about accidents, they don't ususally make the headlines. And deaths may not in the future. Seen anything on the death at Catherine Freer in June???   (http://www.oregonlive.com/morenews/oreg ... ssf/html_s)

If it's strong academics you're looking for be wary.  My youngest son was incarcerated in a Therapeutic Boarding School in Ga. (by his father) for 18 mo.  The facility was not licensed and took great pride in advertising as a college prep facility and tauted their accreditation through a prestigous assoc, SACS.
My son returned home in May and was distressed to learn that he is behind his peers.  While most of his friends will be attending 4 classes their senior year, he will have to take the full load, 7 to make up for credits he lost while there. Check with other parents and the board of education.

In the 1999 Utah Private Schools list that came up in a search I found this. Aspen Ranch School, under "Grades" (like K-6) reads, "Ungr".  3 of 106 were listed as such. I would have to wonder what that implies.
http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:NZ ... n&ie=UTF-8

Utah's regs are pretty lax in my opinion, given the number of deaths that have occured.  The licensing director has a history of "overlooking" violations and publicly stated that his office doesn't have the time to make the annual "surprise" visits.  Well, then turn the job over to someone who does. Hire more staff. If there is no money in the budget for that, then stop frauding the public by making them think the programs are monitored.  If the director who is charged with keeping these programs honest can override the regs, and dismiss violations, what's the point anyway?
What security does this give parents?

Checks these links:
http://web.outsidemag.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html

http://www.sltrib.com/07172002/utah/754298.htm

http://www.sltrib.com/2002/jul/07192002/utah/754809.htm

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405022638,00.html

http://blueprint.bluecrossmn.com/topic/sutton

http://www.intrepidnetreporter.com/Teen ... exing.html

http://www.sltrib.com/2002/jun/06152002/utah/745780.htm

In 1999 Utah had a category for Residential Support Program which was differentiated from RTC.
Residential support is a Utah category that allows a facility to provide the
essentials of life (food and shelter) when certain people in an emergency are incapable of providing their own. It is not a treatment facility although the statutes require that treatment shall be made available upon request.  Ask what kind of license and what it means.  

http://www.intrepidnetreporter.com/Teen ... tment.html

You should also know that based on Utah regs it would be perfectly legal for your child and seven other teens to trek off into the wilderness (fraught with inherent dangers) with a 21 yr old who has a HSD and 30 hrs of educ or training (or comprable exp/training in a related field)and a 19 yr old with a GED and 2 mo Field experience.  Both would have CPR and first aid training and have completed the "Program's" training, which consists of 3 days of academic curriculm and a 21 day field course. What's wrong with this picture?

My friend's son died in Utah in July.  The staff member with him was reported to be an EMT. S/he did nothing for him but "Lean him against a tree and sat with him until he bacame unconscious."  For two hours he sat there dying of heatstroke. His symptoms weren't recognized and help wasn't summoned until he lost consciousness. We may never know the truth of what happened that day, but it leaves me with this question:

Are teens safe in Utah?

[Antigen]

On 2002-07-29 01:09:00, kaydeejaded wrote:
God it is so depressing to read the worried mom's postings. She is not too worried if she has her son in a potentially lethal situation. Pot is not addicting. There are millions of documents on the internet alone that support this FACT. Maybe mom if you stop laughing you can research 1- pot 2- death rates in bootcamp and really can you tell me why you ask questions you do not want the answers to ... that is counterproductive...maybe you need bootcamp ....all you'll get is some excersise


freedomlover, kady

No kiddin'! In the past year in the U.S. alone, how many kids have died at boot camp and TC schools?

In 4,000 years (that we know of) there has not been one death from cannabis.

That's what's so damned infuriating about these cults. Always feigning concern for the victim while inflicting maximum abuse. It's like munchausen by proxy.

I hope the kid survives it OK. They say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I think our worried mom here has some good intentions, at least superficially. And I hope she reches her destination soon.