Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

A very young (11 years old Seedling)

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GregFL:
Yes, it is great that your brother suceeded. This may sound harsh, tho, but I don't believe saving your brother was worth everyone else's torture and the suicides of many whom went into the Seed. I refer you to a prior post where the guy just blew his head off one day before he got picked up  to go to group.
A good friend of mine killed himself with an overdose after graduating the Seed. Would this have happened?  We don't know,anymore than we know whether or not your brother would have straightened out on his own.
I spent 20 years trying to forget about the Seed, my entire teenage years were ruined and my family is still impacted to this day. I would not have  had this experience to save your brother if given the choice.
During the last 29 years, I have met many people whom put needles in their arm during wild periods in their life. One of them was my best friend Rod. Rod got shot in a drug deal. Rod routinely shot up Cocaine, smuggled hash,involved himself in violent drug gang activity in Ft Lauderdale. you name it, he did it. Rod never went into any treatment center. Where is Rod today? he is a college graduate with a masters in construction, has two adopted Korean kids.  Dale Long was a friend of mine in 8th grade, went to lakewood. Never went to treatment. Today Dale is dead of a drug overdose.
Blaming these things on lack oftreatment or crediting treatment with saving your life is just not accurate. There is a study that compares "success rates" of people whom go into treatment, and there is not a discernable difference between those that do and those that don't. Most people just stop taking drugs, or robbing houses, or whatever. Some Die. Some end up in jail. This is life.But taking a whole class of kids (white, middle and upper, non drug addicted behavior problems) convincing them they are addicts, making publiclly confess to crimes, locking them up worse than adult criminals get treated, and forcing them into "treatment' which was nothing more than a glorified Korean style "reeducation camp" is wrong. In fact, things that went on there were criminal. I would also refer you to Fuelaw's posts. He is an attorney also, and he didn't for one minute appreciate his Seed experience and the abuse and torture.
Tell your brother I am glad he got off drugs and suceeded in life.Tell him also that we would appreciate his participation here.I am also sad that at age 11, they forced you into "treatment". What a crock of bullshit. They sacrificed your childhood to appease the great Seed cult in order to "save" your brother.
ps, was your other brother known as Scooter? Did you live in Porto Cadiz? Did you also have a sister?

MommaDebi:
Greg wrote:" Most people just stop taking drugs, or robbing houses, or whatever. Some Die. Some end up in jail. This is life.But taking a whole class of kids... convincing them they are addicts, making publiclly confess to crimes, locking them up ..."reeducation camp" is wrong. In fact, things that went on there were criminal. "



I wholeheartedly agree.


I also think sometimes we, in this safe place,have to agree to disagree.
otherwise, we are just as cruel and judgemental as they taught us to be in the program.

I personally believe that Marnie's feelings of gratitude towards the Seed and it's ability to "save" her brother's life, is simply an indication of the ability of the Seed to "program" its inmates.

She was a very impressionable 11 years old when indoctrinated with the programs' hype. So I think it is to be expected that the basic tenants of belief are still with her.
 
That does not take away from my ability to state my feelings about the irrevocable harm that the Seed did to me and my family.
I have a brother I have not seen in 25 years, following his violent rape of me.A father, a stepmother and stepsister I have not seen in almost 13 years, because they were too unhealthy for me to be around with my young son. In fact my father died, 6 years ago, following his taking me to court to sue for visitation of my son  and yes I did win that particular battle).I took my responsibility seriously as a parent to ensure that he was in emotionally healthy environments,& treated with love,respect and courtesy. I did not want him to have to have the same type of baggage that I have.
 I have much younger bro and sis that I am just now learning to value and love because I was not living in their home as they grew up.

 
So Marnie, while I accept your belief that the Seed healed your brother I would appreciate your understanding of the damage it did to me.

_________________
"...every five years I look back on my life and have a good laugh..."

[ This Message was edited by: MommaDebi on 2002-07-23 11:09 ]

Marnie:
WOW..... When you said Scooter it brought tears to my eyes - yes "Scooter" WAS my middle brother - Scooter died in an automobile accident in November 1987 - Acohol related.  I think some people that have read my thoughts misunderstand me - I was not just in the Seed - I was also put in Straight in 1977.  The Seed helped me go from a very young gullible child to a MESSED up teen. Of course... my mother seeing the success of my older brother Roger..... thought the best thing for myself, my sister Jennie and my brother Ken (Scooter) was Straight, Inc. I spent many years at Straight as a participant... working my way from newcomer all the up to Sr. Staff - I blame Straight for my brother and the pain I go thru everyday - I blame Straignt for the terrible feeling of insecurity and the unmistakable thoughts of feeling and being inferior to every human being.  

I know the horror - but as far as the Seed and my Brother Roger are concerned...I am just relating facts as I know and see them I feel as if I will never be normal - I just survive everyday - thanks for listening

Marnie

GregFL:
OH my god, it is you.
I used to know your family well, and your older brother was really messed up. Him and some guy used to lay on the couch at your apartment and be all fucked up from shooting drugs. This is when I was thirteen. Scooter was my buddy, and I had a crush on your sister. Marnie, you mom had no business placing you in the Seed.
Your brother may remeber me, but perhaps not. I really thought Scooter was cool. I just vaguely remember you, but remember the situation was bad there. My name was Greg B. I hung around Scooter quite a bit. I am sorry he didn't make it.
I am so happy Roger did, he was truly messed up, like you say. His friend he hung aroung was a major asshole. They both just did nothing all day in your mom's apartment.
Tell you sister I said hello and ask her if she remembers me, and your brother as well.
Marnie, Email me tonite rocky93@tampabay.rr.com

GregFL:
One more point, Marnie. There was absolutely no parenting going on at your house. YOur mom certaintly needed to take responsibility for the situation there. We used to go there after school and smoke dope and raise hell. No one was ever home. Even at night, for some reason it was okay to go there and party. I am remembering you more and more. You were about 10 years old when I knew you, I was thirteen. (i am 43 now, is that right) and everyone smoked pot and stuff right in front of you. Your sister was real cool and had a boyfriend, but I kinda liked her. we were so young and that was so long ago. I think you guys moved out of porto cadiz and now I have a vague memory of Scooter in the seed, but I think he left or ran? Is this memory right?
BTW, your brothers older friend was like a pysco or something. we would come in and say hi, and he would flip us off and say fuck you punk and shit like that. Your brother was nice in spite of his problems. Do you remember the all night parties at the clubhouse with scary movies? Ask you sister.
What is her name again, and how is she doing?
Again, I am glad he made it. I did too, in spite of the seed.
Greg.

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