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Offline Anonymous

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« on: April 30, 2004, 01:51:00 AM »
I hear a lot about restraints... At CEDU, CA they had a big thing about no restraints. Wouldn't even touch you if you split.  They just f*&^ed with your mind instead. I thought Ascent was part of CEDU.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2004, 10:38:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-04-29 22:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I hear a lot about restraints... At CEDU, CA they had a big thing about no restraints. Wouldn't even touch you if you split.  They just f*&^ed with your mind instead. I thought Ascent was part of CEDU."


Ascent is part of CEDU and so was NWA...but, they still would restrain you if you were "at risk" of hurting yourself or someone else.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2004, 01:18:00 PM »
CA law forbids it in that kind of setting. This is the ONLY reason they didn't do it in CA. And that's why there are so few of these places there. The states with lots of them have very loose laws about what you can do to kids.

Quote
On 2004-04-29 22:51:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I hear a lot about restraints... At CEDU, CA they had a big thing about no restraints. Wouldn't even touch you if you split.  They just f*&^ed with your mind instead. I thought Ascent was part of CEDU."
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Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2004, 07:07:00 PM »
The more regulation, laws, and oversight there is, the less of these places there are. Interesting, isn't it?

And yeah, restraints are just another way to fuck with your mind. I made a post about them in another thread.

Well, that or another way for those bastards to get their jollies.
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DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2004, 12:04:00 PM »
Yes, the more regulation proteching youth the fewer and least abusive organizations. But coorelation is not causation. You just go and try to bring together enough Utah voters to pass meaningful regulations like these. Say, by some fluke or subtrifuge you were successfull in getting laws passed to prevent these program people doing what they love to do. Who will vigorously enforce these new laws? The same people who demand the death penalty for a (likely) accidental death during an escape but who usually refuse to even prosecute at all when a child is tortured to death?

No, the rooster's crow doesn't really make the Sun rise and regulation doesn't really eliminate abuse. It's the local community standards and culture that keep us safe (in varying degrees) from criminal acts. When you see this kind of regulation, it's an indication of how that community regards child abuse.

We only have to get this issue into to public dialog. And that's happening more and more.

Everybody's lost just waiting to be found. Everyone's a thought just waiting to fade.
-- Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Hell on Wheels

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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2004, 04:09:00 AM »
They only restrained a couple kids at BCA, and believe me they needed grabbed a hold of. I never went to Ascent, but it was well known that it was basically a physical deal, lots of PT, work, and since it is a rather hardcore experience, and they are trying to break you down physically, restraint was fairly common. People forget that we were not all angels, and the restrained kid's memory may be a lot different than other kids that had to deal with the restrainee's bullshit. That doesn't make it okay, but there was a big difference between rstraining someone, and beating them down. I am willing to venture that 99% of ascent staff that restrained students went too far, and should be justly punished.
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Offline Maximus

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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2004, 04:33:00 PM »
Kids are rarely restrained physically. In most cases chemical restraints are used. The escorts cuff them and the go to North Idaho Behavioral Health wher they are on observation and eventually are placated with drugs and the temporary removal of the CEDU environment. I would argue that it seems just as unethical to impose submission with drugs.
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Offline chinsk

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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2004, 05:38:00 PM »
I don't ever recall a kid getting mased or pepper sprayed there.  All the restraining I ever saw was physical.  Some executed properly and with warrant, and most not.

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On 2004-05-03 13:33:00, Maximus wrote:

"Kids are rarely restrained physically. In most cases chemical restraints are used. The escorts cuff them and the go to North Idaho Behavioral Health wher they are on observation and eventually are placated with drugs and the temporary removal of the CEDU environment. I would argue that it seems just as unethical to impose submission with drugs."
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Offline Jack1963

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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2004, 06:37:00 PM »
"Chemical restraint" is drugs - not pepper spray. He forgot to explain. They use stuff like Ativan, Thorazine, and sometimes Haldol. Maybe other stuff - I don't know.

Quote
On 2004-05-03 14:38:00, chinsk wrote:

"I don't ever recall a kid getting mased or pepper sprayed there.  All the restraining I ever saw was physical.  Some executed properly and with warrant, and most not.



Quote

On 2004-05-03 13:33:00, Maximus wrote:


"Kids are rarely restrained physically. In most cases chemical restraints are used. The escorts cuff them and the go to North Idaho Behavioral Health wher they are on observation and eventually are placated with drugs and the temporary removal of the CEDU environment. I would argue that it seems just as unethical to impose submission with drugs."

"
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ack

Offline chinsk

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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2004, 07:58:00 PM »
Oh, that makes sense.  I never saw any of that happen but I heard it happened at pinecrest/nibh all the time.


Quote
On 2004-05-03 15:37:00, Jack1963 wrote:

""Chemical restraint" is drugs - not pepper spray. He forgot to explain. They use stuff like Ativan, Thorazine, and sometimes Haldol. Maybe other stuff - I don't know.



Quote

On 2004-05-03 14:38:00, chinsk wrote:


"I don't ever recall a kid getting mased or pepper sprayed there.  All the restraining I ever saw was physical.  Some executed properly and with warrant, and most not.





Quote


On 2004-05-03 13:33:00, Maximus wrote:



"Kids are rarely restrained physically. In most cases chemical restraints are used. The escorts cuff them and the go to North Idaho Behavioral Health wher they are on observation and eventually are placated with drugs and the temporary removal of the CEDU environment. I would argue that it seems just as unethical to impose submission with drugs."


"

"
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2004, 08:17:00 PM »
The Thorazine shuffle!!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2004, 11:22:00 AM »
Now, these drug induced restraints were done by the bounty hunters, right?  Because, when I was at Ascent, NWA, and BCA, they never used drugs when we got out of hand.  It was just physical restraints (@ Ascent and NWA, mostly), when we were in "danger of hurting ourselves or someone else".  Some of my friends, though, were on drugs...anti-depressants, and the like...but, they were Shrink prescribed.
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Offline SinfullyHoly194

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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2004, 03:38:00 PM »
at CEDU, CA, there were a lot of restraints amongst the hs and the ms... they actually got some of the older kids higher in the program to do the restraints for the staff....i remember seeing one girl be restrained for saying she'll cut herself and she wasn't holding anything and no where near danger...then they 51/50ed her down to LOMA LINDA...and then somewhere else... then there was another time when a guy in my peer group restrained this guy for just being "out of control".... some kids were hurt during these restraints and thats against the law....
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2004, 04:55:00 PM »
odd thing is when the wasserman guy was around  he was opposed to restraints  and thought all she be allowed to behave however they felt. that was his saying that the place was for people to get in touch with their feelings and all were encouraged to abuse others all they wanted as long as probabtion officers did not find out. they got a lot of their kids sent to them as a diversion to youth authority. what staff were doing restraints
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Offline SinfullyHoly194

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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2004, 03:25:00 PM »
it was new staff that aren't there anymore... even though it was 6 months ago, i can't remember anything....i've tried to block it out of my memory...
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