Author Topic: Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....  (Read 14664 times)

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Offline cram737

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2002, 10:56:00 AM »
James, trying to tell me that Buttimer wasn't there during that time is about the equivalent of me telling you that Sembler is a figment of your imagination. The man did one hell of a head job on me during my intake that effected me the whole year I was there. Every time he entered the room I would start to shake and sweat, much like I am right now. A condition that made it real hard when he called on me during executive raps to appear that I wasn't guilty of something,which I rarely ever was cosidering I was scared to death and a complete conformist, which in turn only heightened my anxiety. Any time he was around I was in complete state of panic. So, if you don't agree with me, do the reasearch but don't make me out to be a fraud or just "mistaken". I apologize if my statements about the "bathroom incedent" put you on the defensive but I am only here to try and make some sense of all this mess, not to attack you.
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Offline Majiktrvls

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2002, 11:18:00 PM »
I am a bit mystified as to what I am seeing occuring here on these forums. I have not been here that long, but lately it seems as thought folks are more into proving each other wrong and themselves right than they are for helping each other to heal. Who the hell cares who was the director at the time? Who cares who was the executive staff? or the Senior staff? What is more important is how it all affected each of us, not how we can blame others. I personally am not here to pass judgement on staff or others in the program..........we already did that while we were in group. Lest we forget.
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Offline Tampa survivor

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2002, 11:52:00 PM »
Cecile, as time passes you may find yourself wondering different things.  I know I have since I first began exploring my Straight years.  Be patient.  
If you did long term non-compliance in the program, drasticly different memories remain than a person winging it out in 11 months.
As somebody who split off  2nd,3rd,4th&4th phases over personal morality issues with the program's abusiveness, I find the answers very interesting.
When you remember a sadist in your dreams for 20 years, it isn't always easy to see him or her here.....
Bill
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Bill H
St Pete & Atlanta, never surrendered!
12/80-12/82

Offline METALGOD8

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2002, 12:19:00 AM »
OK, So where does Ralph Treciokas fit in at Atlanta. he told me he was dispatched to Atlanta to fix some problems for a couple weeks. Is that what really happened. Only answer if you KNOW. Thanks, MG8
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Offline enough

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2002, 01:23:00 AM »
One of the most difficult things about online discussions is the lack of contextual clues to indicate intent, emotion, attitude, concern, reproach, disgust, confusion, and a full range of human emotions.

Let me be perfectly clear, I have neither the inclination nor the time to indict, impune, accuse, discredit, deflate, or in any other way intentionally offend anyone who posts here.

There is no doubt in my mind that we all remember the same issues differently, our access to information was/is limited severely and with intent. Our viewpoints are all differnent and each of them is valid.We have all heard rumours, we have all blocked out memories, and speaking for myself- I have likely remembered some things in ways that make them easier to cope with today.

I understand that emotions run high, especially for people who are just coming to the 'surface' and beginning to escape a cult induced personality. For my own part, I had a complete nervous breakdown, hopsitalized myself, and continue in therapy today a year and a half after I first posted to this forum.

If I post something that runs counter to another persons memory, or perception, it is not an attack, that is what we did in the cult, and what I most certainly try to avoid today. Rather, my posts are here as a contribution, an attempt to share what I can recall, with the hope that together we can eventually form a collective and accurate understanding of what happened, who it happened to, who executed the actions, and who was or is responsible for the nightmare.

I own my own actions, I took steps in the bathroom that were wrong, and I have fully admitted what I did, to the best of my ability to recall it. However, outside of that event, I did not torture newcomers, I did not deny people food, I made conscious and concerted efforts to help people, in the best way I knew how at the time. The fact that my intentions were good, does not exhonerate me, anymore than it does any of us who ended up either on staff or in our upper phases carrying out the orders of those above us.

I have a clear memory of the day when Dave Buttermer left the staff. It was extremely emotional for the group, people were crying profusely- there was a special rap that night and MR. B led it. He told us lots of bullshit, and he was gone. This occured sometime in 1984 to the best of my memory.

My Sister went and worked for him at a local girls school after he left the staff. I cannot recall what she did there, but she was still on her phases- on fourth I think.

Mr. Tilly served as an executive prior to my entry in Dec 83, this information came from Alan Brown, and he returned sometime after Buttermer left. There was a short period when we had no director, and I think the Helen Morton, Ann Crow, and Maria Milnichuck(sp?)  collectively operated the program during that period.

When Mr. Tilly returned to staff the character of the program grew progressively more abusive and aggressive. I do not in anyway mean to say that Dave Buttermer was a 'good guy' or that his reign of terror was any better than anyone elses.

At some point under Mr. Tilly Kris's Parents began to serve as an intake co-ordinator, and staff psychiatrist. After Kris's mom or along with her, Jane Culinane also served as an intake co-ordinator.

There is every possibility that my memory is blurred and confused with 19 years between then and now.

I take eveything  I read here with a GIANT grain of salt. I try to approach everthing that I read with the attitude that each of is operating with the best information we have at hand, but that we are also operating with limited access to a 'big picture' that might be available to someone like Ann Crow, or Dave B, or even Mr. Tilly.

I patently refuse to take deep or personal offense to anything that people have to say, but I will continue express myself as best I can, in the continued hope that my words can somehow heal a few of the wounds I might have inflicted, both on others and myself.

This all breaks down to a large degree when someone anonomously posts the old 'grow up move on and suck it up' bullshit. But I try my best to simply ignore that, or at least respond with some compassion.  

As far as the bathroom incident goes- to date I am the only person posting here who was in the room, and I don't hold that title with any distinction or pride. I will burst forth with joy is someone else who was in the room can enlighten me about what I have blocked out or forgotten. I will also remain firm in my conviction that we did not draw blood, nor did we break any bones, although that is no badge of courage to my eyes.
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Offline cram737

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2002, 01:50:00 AM »
To be exact, I "winged it out" in 11 months,15 days and roughly 22 hours, hell, I still had 2 months to prepare for my 14th birthday. You're exactly right I should surely be over it by now. Ya'll have been a wonderful help!!!!!
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Offline SALEWIS67

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2002, 08:15:00 AM »
How could you not remember her. So CRAM 737 who are you ? I remember Donny Kincaid. He went in to the misbehavors hall of fame on the first ballot...
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Offline Majiktrvls

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2002, 11:50:00 PM »
Quote
On 2002-10-21 20:52:00, Tampa survivor wrote:
Cecile, as time passes you may find yourself wondering different things.  I know I have since I first began exploring my Straight years.  Be patient.  

If you did long term non-compliance in the program, drasticly different memories remain than a person winging it out in 11 months.

As somebody who split off  2nd,3rd,4th&4th phases over personal morality issues with the program's abusiveness, I find the answers very interesting.

When you remember a sadist in your dreams for 20 years, it isn't always easy to see him or her here.....

Bill
Bill, for what it is worth, I was not a in and out in 11 months person. I spent 18 months in hell. I was lied to about being in there under court order, and made a drastic, dramatic effort to get out. As for my above post,  I was in no way trying to be offensive, but rather to seek out the real issues at hand, rather than to see 2 people hashing it out over who is right. It seems like a sensless waste of further energy to me. And, for what it is worth, the two who were disagreeing were not sadistic enemies. To my knowledge there were no grudges against one another, so why start one now over whose memory is correct?
Cecile

[ This Message was edited by: Majiktrvls on 2002-10-25 20:52 ]
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Offline wayeast

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2002, 03:28:00 PM »
Enough made the comment: "I have a clear memory of the day when Dave Buttermer left the staff. It was extremely emotional for the group, people were crying profusely- there was a special rap that night and MR. B led it. He told us lots of bullshit, and he was gone. This occured sometime in 1984 to the best of my memory."

Now I'm confused. And I mean nothing accusatory when I say this, but was the man's name not "Dennis Buttimer" not Dave?  (I may be butchering the last name, but his first name was Dennis.  Are we talking about the same person? Dark-haired arrogant prick with a stupid looking moustache?
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Offline Majiktrvls

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2002, 06:19:00 PM »
Yes, Wayeast.......His name was Dennis and he had the stupid mustache.......kindof goes along with the Hitler mustache........both were both very arrogant pigs.
Majik
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Offline Tampa survivor

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2002, 12:27:00 AM »
Cecile said "I am a bit mystified as to what I am seeing occuring here on these forums. I have not been here that long, but lately it seems as thought folks are more into proving each other wrong and themselves right than they are for helping each other to heal."
 Cecile,  I thought your post was a general
comment upon the forums and the posts tendency to be adversarial at times.  Yeah, well they will be in any functional group setting.  
My reference to sadists dwelling in the dreams was a general comment who anyone who has fear at the thought of a particular staff/oldcomer and how THOSE are the memories which were suppressed first and fade last.
Bill
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Bill H
St Pete & Atlanta, never surrendered!
12/80-12/82

Offline wayeast

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2002, 03:02:00 PM »
I guess what I don't understand is that cram737 said he clearly remembered "Dave" Buttimer leaving.  How could you remember it clearly, but not remember that the guy's name was Dennis? Maybe this was a typo and you were thinking of Dave Tilley.  Is that it?
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Offline Anonymous

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2002, 11:18:00 PM »
I was in the Program in 87-89. Uhm....wasn't it actually in Austelle though? Be good guys!

Michael
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Offline Hagrid

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2002, 09:07:00 AM »
It was at:

2221 Austell Rd Sw
Marietta, GA 30008-4194
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Offline Botched Programming

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Hello everyone! ...Atlanta Straight alumni here....
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2005, 05:03:00 PM »
Quote
On 2002-10-19 23:54:00, enough wrote:

"Let me clarify some of this-



I was the only staff-trainee in the bathroom the entire day.There were four or five guys brought in over different periods of time.



NO bones were broken and NO blood was spilled while I was in there. Period. Whoever claims there was is repeating a rumour and talking without direct knowledge.



One kid had his head dunked in the toilet one time, that was Bob Ambrose, the youngest of the brothers. And although I was in the room when it happened, I stopped it after one dunk, because I had begun to realize that it was wrong at about that point.



We did make physical contact with clients that day, but no one was beaten, so to speak, we poked them in the chest, pushed them against walls. Frankly many many people were treated worse in open group, hundreds of times.



The stuff that happened in there was wrong no doubt, but it was by no means a license to beat people as some may have told you. Mostly we screamed and yelled and humliated people in a intense envronment similar to a boot camp.



 Mr. Tilly was the exec in charge then, and I have no idea if he was specifically aware of what was happening while it happened.



Monty Bingham is the Sr. Staffer that told me to take a list of people into the bathroom and do 'whatever it fucking takes, I don't care, but make them change'



He was also in the office the next day with Kris and others, all of the execs, while I was confronted for what happened. Ironically, the primary arguement against me was that this was not how I had been treated. I agreed, not having the nerve to tell the truth, that I had been treated as bad or worse- I was threatened with a gun as a newcomer, sexually molested as a newcomer, and had to ask for permision each time I wiped my ass in one home, just to mention a few things.



 To my knowledge only one other person was set back- Rob was dropped to a fourth phase refrsher as I was. Most of the rest were confronted heavily in group, but I do not remember any of  them being set back. I took full responsibility for what happened, except for Rob, who I believe was set back because he admitted leading the charge to dunk Bob's head in the toilet. Not that it makes it any better, but the toilet did not, as some have claimed, have any shit or piss in it at the time.



Mr. Tilly did leave the program shortly after I did, though whether he was fired or not I have no idea.



If it makes you feel better, I have spent 19 years living with nightmares almost daily that include the events in the bathroom. I can't hold a job, never went to school, am extremely uncomfortable around children, self medicated for the better part of 19 years, I have signifacant health issues because of the stress involved and the degree of self-loathing I feel, even as I write this I find myself wishing that I would simply die to escape the reality of what those bastards turned me into.



I have attempted suicide multiple times, I have commited myself at least twice, and to this day, I regularly consider suicide, and have to call my therapist and talk it out.



I have stress related back problems that are directly related to these events, I have been hospitalized twice in the past five years because of the pain.



 I do not live a happy life, I live a life in which I can not fall assleep, I mostly end up sleeping in the daylight, and only after being awake for 24-36 hours at a time. I dream of home invasions by former clients who come to kill me, and I often wake up screaming and covered in sweat.



 I was beaten up by a former client outside a bowling alley in 1986. He knocked me out cold and then spent some time hitting me in the face and stomach before I recovered enough to flag down a cop. He made it clear that he felt I was to blame for anything that happened to him because I was a ficking staff trainee- in reality I was jsut as affraid and compliant as anyone elee, and I had little or no power at all.



I moved around from state to state and home to home for a long time without filing a change of address form, for fear that the program or former clients were hunting me down to kill me.



As damaging as these events were to Bob, or to others that were brought into the bathroom that day, they were just as damaging to me, and I suspect to any of the fifth phasers that were in there.



So hate me if you want, if it makes you feel better. But do it for the truth, and not over some rumour that spread over the years and grew into something that simply is not true.



There were similar events in the girls bathroom, I do not know who was involved and I have no idea what became of it. I withdrew from the program within two days of these events.



 There is no way in any sense that I should have ever been left alone in the bathroom in that environment. I was a trainee, and as such I was expendable and a good scapegoat.



The program was by its very nature and design abuseive to everyone who was admitted. It was the very core of the program to humilate people and make them feel intense emotions of guilt and shame, and that was part of the modality far before Straight adopted it- as far back as the 1950's under the name Synanon, and before that as a thought reform process developed in China and Korean POW camps.



The only person to blame is Melvin Sembler, he was the driving force, he knew how the modality worked, and according to former members of board of directors, he was determined to avoid any kind of legitmate medical assesments prior to admission- fro mthe very start.



Everyone who was brought in was brainwashed, from exec's like Ann Crow whose own children when through the program, all the way down the group staff. Sure some people were more comfortable than others with the modality, but then all people are different and some people enjoy power.



Personally I think the Callum kid, who was turned into a walking bruise after breaking helen Mortons Jaw- was treated worse than jsut about anyone in the Atlanta group between 83-85.



I can never getr rid of the image of him being arrested outside that day, literally covered in bruises- and charged with felony battery- while those who had beaten him went scott free. But then the program had some kind of political connection with the sherriff of cobb county at the time, as well as local judges in their pocket.

 



"


Let me clarify....Part of this is a Goddamn lie. Dennis Buttimer was executive staff. People did get physically hurt. Heads did get shoved into toilets and flushed. And as far as this whiney ass feel sorry for yourself ( I hope you die, rott and burn in hell. I know this post is old and I hope you're still lurking out there. And Dave Tilly came after Buttimer because Buttimer was either fired or quit.

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway.  
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0136374069/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Andrew Tannenbaum

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