Staff apologists--What the fuck are you thinking?

[RTP2003]

The problem with Staff apologists is that they try to accept the ex-Staffer's claims that "they were brainwashed too". This is unacceptable. Sure, it is the Executive (I wish they were the 'Executed') Staff that deserves the blame for keeping the place open and running, but it was the JUNIOR AND SENIOR STAFF THAT DID THE BULK OF THE HANDS ON ABUSES AND PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE. THE JUNIOR AND SENIOR STAFF WERE JUST AS RESPONSIBLE AS THE EXECUTIVE STAFF FOR MAKING STRAIGHT INC. A LIVING HELL. The Executives may have started the car, but the daily drivers were Junior and Senior Staff. To let them off the hook by allowing them to claim they were victims is a load of shit. As I have stated elsewhere, unless they are putting at least as much effort into fighting the program now as they did in supporting it then, the world would be a much better place without them, and I for one encourage them to kill themselves with all deliberate speed.

[Anomalous]

Do you think by repeating the same thing over, and over, and over again, SOMETIMES USING "CAPS" WHICH MEANS, "YELLING!!" is going to make anyone agree with you that doesn't?

Blah, blah, blah, junior-senior staff, blah, blah, blah...

...should kill themselves blah, blah...

Riiiight, I think we've all heard you loud and clear already. After all, you've been ranting and raving about it in several threads now. No matter what you say, they were victims too.  If they are remorseful, and have moved on, realizing they were wrong, that?s all they can do. Putting  expectations on them is unfair, and ridiculous.  Not to mention arrogant and stupid. Especially your expectations.

You're really irrational. Weren't you a misbehavior?

Be careful of your thoughts for your thoughts become your words. Be careful of your words for your words become your actions. Be careful of your actions for your actions become your habits. Be careful of your habits for your habits become your character. Be careful of your character for your character becomes your destiny.

[The Butcher]

You're really irrational. Weren't you a misbehavior? (sic)

HAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! ::stab::

[The Butcher]

No matter what you say, they were victims too

And they will be victims AGAIN. And there's nothing that you or anyone can do to change that. They will get theirs. It's only a matter of time...

[Anomalous]

Most of the people who fought the program only got it worse. We learned that every day, from day 1. Those time-out rooms were built close, with no ceilings, for a reason. Working was the only way out. Even if you spent your entire program knowing what was happening was wrong.

[RTP2003]

On 2004-03-28 17:10:00, Anomalous wrote:

"Do you think by repeating the same thing over, and over, and over again, SOMETIMES USING "CAPS" WHICH MEANS, "YELLING!!" is going to make anyone agree with you that doesn't?

No, I'm trying to emphasize a point that apparently  idiots like you have been overlooking.
 

No matter what you say, they were victims too.  If they are remorseful, and have moved on, realizing they were wrong, that?s all they can do. Putting  expectations on them is unfair, and ridiculous.

No, that's not ALL they can do.  They can work to right the wrongs they committed by being on Staff.  Richard Bradbury has done this.  Reagon Youth has done this, too.  If you don't think that being on Staff IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM (yes, I'm yelling, you lily-livered sob sister) was ACTIVELY PARTICIPATING in the abuse that was Straight, Inc., then your head is so far up your ass that no amount of laxative will remove it.  

 

Not to mention arrogant and stupid. Especially your expectations.

Not really.  They expected me to curl up and die when I "copped out" from Straight, so now I merely expect them to do the same if they have "copped out" on owning up to their actions and making some form of restitution for it.

You're really irrational. Weren't you a misbehavior?

Damn right I was.  Then I complied long enough to get the fuck out.  The Staff members could have done the same.  I left with nowhere to go, but I knew anything had to be better than being in Straight for another minute.  So don't hand me your sorry ass excuses for them going on Staff.  They chose to do it, and they were paid for it.


And if you've heard me loud and clear, why are you still alive, Staffer?


_________________
"Mean and hateful since 1982"


Your sponsor says it's OK for you to drink[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2004-03-28 17:30 ]

[Froderik]

You're really irrational. Weren't you a misbehavior?

To label misbehavers "irrational" is the most asinine thing I've ever heard here. Everyone dealt in their own way. Anomalous, WTF is the matter with you that you would say that? You sound like a staff member trying to belittle someone for "acting out." I can't say I think too much of you, whoever you are. And no, I wasn't a misbehaver during my program. I 7-stepped.

[RTP2003]

On 2004-03-28 17:27:00, Anomalous wrote:

"Most of the people who fought the program only got it worse. We learned that every day, from day 1. Those time-out rooms were built close, with no ceilings, for a reason. Working was the only way out. Even if you spent your entire program knowing what was happening was wrong.  "

Coward--then and now.

Hey Carmel, were you on Staff?  That would explain a lot.  

_________________
"Mean and hateful since 1982"


Your sponsor says it's OK for you to drink[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2004-03-28 17:49 ]

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-28 16:47:00, RTP2003 wrote:

THE JUNIOR AND SENIOR STAFF WERE JUST AS RESPONSIBLE AS THE EXECUTIVE STAFF FOR MAKING STRAIGHT INC. A LIVING HELL.

Yup, so were those damned fifth phasers. God! But I hated those damned fifth phasers. And some of the foster parents were pretty sadistic too. Off with all their heads? Ok, but we're not done yet, nowhere near! How about all those teachers and neighbors? What about the cops who would arrest us and take us right back instead of help us? What about those vindictive, power hungry parent corps people who work tirelessly to convince parents that their kids will surely die? I can think of a choice few who litterally deserve it.

So many assholes, so little rope. That's one problem.

The other problem is that they really don't know they're evil. That's no excuse; never was. But it is a problem. And I propose a solution.

The Program can't work w/o all those no talking _____ rules. It just can't. That's why every last one, no matter the bunking arrangements, religious bent or lack of it, AA dogma or not, juvenile or adult, every last one discourages people saying what they think.

The whole time I was in there, I fantasized about dragging these lunatics out into the more commonly accepted reality to have this conversation.

Look around at some of the threads w/ pro-program posters. Given enough lattitude to do so, they always show their asses. It only seemed like everyone agreed w/ them when they had the power to punish us for letting on that we didn't. That's what was so damned crazy-making. I don't think program appologists would even be allowed to walk unsuporvised on the street if everybody knew how fully nuts their thinking really is. So don't worry about pro-program people saying too much. Encourage them to speak their whole minds. It can only help our cause if they do.

But I don't think Jennifer is a Program appologist. I think she's got a story to tell. You'll just have to wait and see where she stands.

But I know some ppl get thoroughly brainwashed over the long term because I have a brother like that. Went in when he was 14, checked out of reality shortly thereafter and hasn't checked back for messages since.

Here's a sample:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=10#2485

Now I ask you, who is doing more to expose the Program for what it is then it's most dedicated adherants?

To let them off the hook by allowing them to claim they were victims is a load of shit.

Allowing them??? Just what do you propose to do to stop anybody saying anything? Just don't sweat it.

Save our planet; it's the only one with chocolate!

--Andi, domestic goddess

[RTP2003]

Allowing them??? Just what do you propose to do to stop anybody saying anything? Just don't sweat it.

Maybe I should have expressed that more clearly.  I meant that we should not swallow and accept that particular line of bullshit.  As to where we draw the line, if you were involved in the program in a position of authority, and accepted compensation for your participation, you are guilty.

[Antigen]

Ok, no argument there.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Guilty or innocent, everybody who was there was also a wittness. If you want the story out, and that has always been my objective, then it takes a thousand voices.

You know, if Mama Cass Elliot would have shared that damn sandwich
with Karen Carpenter, they would both still be alive today!!!!!!!

--chongo

[RTP2003]

Yeah, that's what the "exit interviews" are for.... :flame:  :wave:

[Antigen]

Exit interviews?

They used to burn witches. Today we laugh at them. Today we jail people for marijuana. Tomorrow they'll laugh at us.

--Robert "Rosie" Rowbotham

[Anonymous]

I just found this. Was this written by the Wes Fager?
http://www.wesfager.com/wesfager/images ... letter.gif

[Carmel]

Sorry...was never on staff...not even close.  Mentioned something like that in one of last posts I think.

Not an "apologist" either.  Dont think anything was right about what Staff did.  If I remember correctly, I was shit on by staff too.  

I just dont think its necessary to wish violence and death and hate on people, no matter who or what they are/were.  I think that would make me just as bad as them.  I believe there is a better way....why does that make me "pro-staff"? We ALL were made to hurt and abuse people RTP....to different degrees, yes...but we all participated at one point or another.

RTP...I just dont have the same intensity of anger as you do at this point...I may never, but it doesnt mean we arent coming from the same place.  My point of view doesnt make me your enemy....I just have a different way of dealing with where I am currently.  

I wasnt trying to manipulate you with your grief either....it only just seems to me that there has just got to be more to it than so many extremes you know?  If you slow down and think about the possibilities....there is a bigger picture.  

Just because I dont feel right about hurling insults and advocating death to these people doesnt mean I think that what they did was any less wrong than you do, okay?