Therion and Fucktard, have a seat. You're started over!

[RTP2003]

I guess we're just going to have to disagree on this one, Greg.  Unless they have shown the degree of dedication that R. Bradbury has shown in the fight, I think they are guilty.  Maybe not perpetrators, but PAID (no matter how little) collaboraters.  As a phaser, you had to comply to get along in the program to get someplace where you could have a realistic chance of successfully copping out.  As a staffer, you would have had no barriers to keep you from leaving, and in fact were paid to be there.

Maybe I'm looking at this through my Drug War Veteran's filter, but it seems to me that a POWs first and foremost duty is to escape.  I don't see how a staffer fulfilled that duty-- in fact, I would compare them to the "kapos" or Jews in Nazi concentration camps that would act as henchmen for the Executive Sta-- I mean, SS.

[Dr. Miller Newton]

The staff at Straight, Inc. were a fine bunch, through and through. Period!  :flame:

[Cayo Hueso]

RTP, I can agree with a lot of what you're saying.  There were staff that were there that were HORRENDOUS and just as bad as the execs.  They got off on controlling us.  But, there were also some there that I consider, looking back now, to be completely brainwashed.  The War POWs didn't have to contend with their parents telling them that their incarceration was 'in their best interest'.  They didn't have their captors saying that this was all being done for their own good.  We were ALL impressionable young kids in there.  Some of us got through it without being completely brainwashed, others didn't.  If I run into a staff member today and they've TRULY seen the error of their ways, I'm fine with them.  The ones that don't can fuck off.

I guess what I'm saying is that I see very good points on both sides of this issue.  There are staff that I will NEVER forgive no matter WHAT they say or do and there are others that I feel completely sorry for.

Those who control the past, control the future; and those who control the present, control the past.

--George Orwell

[RTP2003]

Something to keep in mind is that most of the abuses that went on daily were perpetuated by and overseen by Jr and Sr staff.  The executives knew it was going on, and participated whenever their busy schedules allowed them to, but most of the abuses and consequnces were at the hands of Jr. and Sr. staff.

[Dr Fucktard]

Do you guys remember those obnoxious newcomers that would be disruptive, rude and annoying just to get attention from other people? These newcomers would act like little babies, and as soon as the spotlight was pointed on these newcomers, they would say whatever they could in order to get just a little bit of attention.

I can't wait to get your sorry ass into my new rehab.  :skull:

[Anonymous]

new rehab :rofl: like the one you tried to open in Mad Beach???  HA!  How 'bout trying to get your license so you can 'help the troubled youth'...couldn't get that could ya.  Sure, we'll see your new rehab. :roll:

[GregFL]

I agree with your assessment Cayohueso. Some were bad people, most were brainwashed just like us and only stayed on staff for short periods of time.

In any event, I would never have gone on staff.

[Cayo Hueso]

There are some that I would still like to kick the shit out of (not that I really could, but I can dream).  I had an oldcomer after I got started over that went on to staff.  She did so much damage to me as both o/c and staff.  I'd be really afraid of what I would do if I ever ran into her again.  I wouldn't give a shit if she DID turn around and become like Richard.  NOTHING she could say or do could make up for the damage she inflicted on me.  I remember Richard on staff and he was NOTHING like the person I'm talking about.  He was nothing like Kevin Lowe.  That fucker needs to be held accountable, no excuses there.  He was plain and simple, one twisted mother fucker.

What is this new loyalty? It is, above all, conformity. It is the uncritical and unquestioning acceptance of America as it is. It rejects inquiry into the race question or socialized medicine or public housing, regards as heinous any challenge to what is called the system of private enterprise, identifying that system with Americanism. It abandons evolution, repudiates the once popular concept of progress, and regards America as a finished product, perfect and complete. The concept of loyalty as conformity is a false one. It is narrow and restrictive, denies freedom of thought and conscience... What do men know of loyalty who make a mockery of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights?
http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/unitarians/commager.html' target='_new'>Henry Steele Commager, 1947

[Anonymous]

This is what is so great about survivors speaking out, like Greg and Cayohueso.  Your intelligence and compassion shines through, sending a message of hope and inspiring others.  I hate what these places did to the unfortunate kids who got swept up in the crazed anti-drug (anti-youth) movement that began nearly 3 decades ago.  Your collective voice is a powerful one that needs to be heard in every living room across America, along with former staff members like Ray Bradbury who is so courageously and relentlessly carrying the banner of justice for all, in full view of the public, not behind closed doors.

 :smile:

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-10 11:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"This is what is so great about survivors speaking out, like Greg and Cayohueso.  Your intelligence and compassion shines through, sending a message of hope and inspiring others.  I hate what these places did to the unfortunate kids who got swept up in the crazed anti-drug (anti-youth) movement that began nearly 3 decades ago.  Your collective voice is a powerful one that needs to be heard in every living room across America, along with former staff members like Ray Bradbury who is so courageously and relentlessly carrying the banner of justice for all, in full view of the public, not behind closed doors.



 :smile: "

Sorry, I forgot to also acknowledge the fine work of Wes Fager, a brilliant and very decent man, who along with Ginger, has kept the lights on for a long, long time, in support of all survivors and their right to be heard.

[Anonymous]

Isn't it time someone started a Fornits defense fund to help offset the costs of Ginger's defense against the lawsuit brought by PURE?  Can donations be filtered through Elberg's firm? How have other organizations handled setting up a legal defense fund?  Anybody have any others suggestions or ideas?  Pro-Bono or not, I'm sure a few extra dollars would be put to good use.

[Cayo Hueso]

I'm up for it.  Ginger??  You have fans out here who would like to help.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin

[Antigen]

I dunno. I'll have to ask Phil.

What are politicians going to tell people when the Constitution is gone and we still have a drug problem?
--William Simpson

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-10 12:12:00, Antigen wrote:

"I dunno. I'll have to ask Phil.

What are politicians going to tell people when the Constitution is gone and we still have a drug problem?
--William Simpson

"

Thanks, Ginger. Let us know what Phil says.

 ::nod::

[GregFL]

Sorry, I forgot to also acknowledge the fine work of Wes Fager, a brilliant and very decent man, who along with Ginger, has kept the lights on for a long, long time, in support of all survivors and their right to be heard. "

Thanks for the kind words, and the contributions to this movement by Ginger and Wes cannot be understated. They are both responsible, along with Kathy Martin, Ken, Kim, and a handfull of others, of kicking this thing off.  The hours of dedication by Ginger and Wes are especially something to be thankfull for. Ginger's work at creating a forum and the intial websites, along with Wes' reseach are in fact why so many people today know about the abuses of the Seed TC spinoffs in this country.

Now, if you haven't seen it and you really want a laugh,you need to see Wes and I out together at a bar or Talking to women in general.  I even make myself laugh just thinking about it.