Author Topic: I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight  (Read 30411 times)

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Offline taureana

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2004, 06:25:00 PM »
It's all history.  If you do your homework you will see that what you call fairy tales actually coincides with historical events.
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Offline Anonymous

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2004, 06:49:00 PM »
and a priest can turn crackers and cheap wine into the body and blood of a jew whose been dead for 2000 years, if he says the right magic words.
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Offline Anonymous

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2004, 08:31:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-28 15:25:00, taureana wrote:

"It's all history.  If you do your homework you will see that what you call fairy tales actually coincides with historical events."


not exactly, there are many, many conflicting stories WITHIN the Bible itself and it most definitely differs from proven, scientific history.  Sure, there are some similarities, but certainly not enough to be able to take the Bible as literal, historical fact.
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Offline RTP2003

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2004, 08:39:00 PM »
Here's a good link where you can find some examples of contradiction within the fiction:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
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Offline teachback

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2004, 11:38:00 PM »
God is nothing more than an obsessive lie
While sunday school children are brainwashed into line
And presented with as truth what's really just a lie
Another child's self-belief is sacrificed

In the eyes of the lord, men are his servants
In the eyes of the lord, women are mens' servants
In the eyes of the lord, we're authority's servants
In the eyes of the lord, everyone's a servant

Sexual roles perversely glorified
Beyond virgin motherhood, all status is denied
But starvation and death's the real testament
To the truth of the god your bible represents
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Offline teachback

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2004, 11:39:00 PM »
A stagnant pool of bile contains as much interest...
...As the bible
And is much less harmful
And is much more helpful
And is much more reverend
And is much more irreverent
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Offline Scott D

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2004, 12:45:00 AM »
What makes you think it even happened? There is NO historical contemporary  (this is a contradiction)  writing during the time of Christ that indicate he even existed (False) . Even biblical scholars acknowledge the bible was written after his alleged death.//////  (true but you have to understand the time back then and how things got passed down) ( The bible is one of the only most historically correct writings of our time)(PROVEN)


There may have been a guy named Jesus, but there are no historical references anywhere to validate that. ///// (Nope how many do you want)

The chances are he was the son of god and died on the cross for your sins? Tell me, why did all those other people  ////(Who)//// die on a cross then, it was not a unique punishment back then.  /////( That is true but why did water flow when the roman centurion speared his side???)  Where is the evidence any of this stuff happened? /////  (dead Sea scrolls and so much more)  Scientific evidence indicates the Flood never happened,//////  (nope the have actually found part of the arc) the earth is older than the bible indicates, the genesis story is absolutely impossible (light before the stars, firmament between heaven and earth, etc, etc). ///// LONG LONG LONG debate but more and more studies have found that evolution does not add up and many scientific people who are the most difficult to discuss faith with are the ones that are coming forth with this material, one of the leaders is proving that evolution does not add up is an agnostic to boot!)

Cry at the movie all you want...better to cry for the sorry state of mankind still believing this ancient man myth bullshit. /////  (actually I will cry for you.  show me or name me 3 agnostics whose life has been changed by their belief and I will show you thousands of people whose life has been changed by believing that Jesus Christ died for their sins) ( All other religions I can show you or take you to the place their profit is buried ,Jesus tomb is empty)
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2004, 12:52:00 AM »
The premise of Occom's razor states that, assuming there were multiple explanations
for a phenomena, the simplest explanation was usually the right one.  That's a perfect explanation for why I'm so skeptical.  From the time that we as humans began we've had a need to explain things that frighten us.  It used to be that when we heard thunder, it was because the God of Thunder was angry with something we did.  Then came along meteorology...now everyone knows that thunder is a release of electricity, Thor is not up there throwing down lightning bolts.  There were sacrifices to Pele so that the volcano wouldn't erupt...now we have geology.  People were afraid of the volcano so if they believed that Pele controlled the eruptions then if they could only make Pele happy everything would be OK.  What if.....since we as humans are the only species aware of our own mortality...what if it's just too scary to think that that's it, we're on our own. There is no plan, there is no hereafter, when we're gone we're gone. It's much more comforting to believe there is someone up there looking out for us.  It gives us a sense of at least SOME sort of control over our own destiny...if we're really really good then we get to go to heaven and everything will be OK.  

My problem with the Bible itself is that it cannot be taken as historical fact and a lot of people really seem to believe that it is.  The Bible was not written by "God"...it was written by men, it's THEIR INTERPRETATION of events expressed through THEIR PERSPECTIVE.   The difference between historical fact the and Bible is like the difference between a documentary and a docu-drama...there are a lot of things that ARE true, but the authors have taken GREAT dramatic license...IMHO.

The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this.
--Albert Einstein, My First Impression of the U.S.A., 1921

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Offline Cayo Hueso

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #38 on: February 29, 2004, 01:31:00 AM »
I too believe your heart is in the right place, but......

Quote
On 2004-02-28 21:45:00, Scott D wrote:

" (true but you have to understand the time back then and how things got passed down)

remember the game telephone when you were a kid??  Remember how the message ended up being completely different when it got to the end of the line?

Quote
( The bible is one of the only most historically correct writings of our time)(PROVEN)

Please show me evidence of this.


Quote
There may have been a guy named Jesus, but there are no historical references anywhere to validate that. ///// (Nope how many do you want)

as many as you'd like to provide.  Historical facts though please, not Biblical references


 
Quote
Scientific evidence indicates the Flood never happened,//////  (nope the have actually found part of the arc)


Biblical historians believe they found it... and actually there is a scientific explanation for the 'great flood'.  A megatsunami that was formed by almost a third of an island sliding into the ocean after it was dislodged from a volcano of mammoth proportions.  

Quote
( All other religions I can show you or take you to the place their profit is buried ,Jesus tomb is empty)"


Some scientists believe that his body was taken in order to save it from being destroyed by vandals or well meaning believers.

I'm not knocking anyone for their beliefs....I would LOVE to be able to take all this at face value...it sure would make things easier to believe that someone is up there on my side.  Guess maybe I'm waiting to be convinced and I haven't been so far from any of the albeit limited research I have done.

The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force.
--Thomas Jefferson

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Offline animals all of us

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2004, 02:21:00 AM »
Dear Scott,

As you are among survivors and friends I will not disrespect your beliefs and thoughts as to origins of this Jesus and our Universe.

Three very good examples of famous people who's lives were forever changed and magnified (among whose followers are in the millions as well), as a result of clerical errors, misgiving of a church believing in lies and selling deceit are as follows:

1.  Disedirius Erasmus
2.  Martin Luther
3.  Karl Marx
4.  Charles Darwin

And even though our German Martin Luther lead the Enlightenment Reformation toward Lutheranism, you cannot discount that one of his biggest complaints about the bigotry of the church was its selling of pardons which actually accidentally ignited that revolution.

In that vein, Erasmus spent his whole younger life and into adulthood around the monks and priests as a kind of secretary.  He was later famed as an atheist for his writings about the hypcrocies and deceits of the church.

Karl Marx, atheist.  

Charles Darwin.  What.

Scott, consider that the first printing press was not created (FACT) until after 1500, after the start of what we call the Rennaissance.  So many great artists were influenced, not by their love for god but by their love of the sciences and mathematics of the great and classic Greeks, and only then were many of these artists factually paid to paint murals and friezes like the Cistine Chapel or build new structures like many of the domes in Rome we see today.

Humanists were introduced in the Rennaissance period.  These guys were hired by the local heads of state, not by the papacy, to begin to translate the old teachings of the Greeks, since those like the meDici family, government, believed that the old Greek writings held much good education and information.

And until the humanists came along, churches were built in the shape of a cross, not a circle where Greeks believed that circles more closely resembled purity for god - not the cross.

But to move this letter forward for you, the humanists got out of control.  They started translating every god damn thing in sight.  And then they got into the church.  Holy shit the monks and popes were pissed when these many humanists discovered that so much of the written texts in the church were in error from monks being too illiterate to translate correctly.

Consider that King James, you probably have a king james bible like most do, at least somewhere nearby you might.  King James altered the bible, and so did many other kings before and after him.  Popes altered the bible to fit the needs of their holy wars.

In case you don't already get my point:  Basically the people at large, up until around the 1600s generally believed that those With the Money, were needing of education and books.  Hell, it wasn't really until the 1600s when schools for commoners was more widely accepted.  Books were very sacred up until many years after the invention of that first press on steel wheels.  Kings, popes, and those with the money and books and knowledge held the sway on everything and everyone below them.

So whether there were a Jesus or no, I have to go with the sciences and maths on this one.  And your opinion is equally valid.  I am not atheist or agnostic.  I mean to say, however, that inasmuch as I believe in a Jesus and the holy trinity, I also believe that the ability to alter or retranslate stories in this realm are too possible to deny just the same as I am certain I get hungry throughout my day.

I will agree with you that this quote:
"Love not only the loveable, but the unlovable as well."
              rings very true in my heart too.  We are so fortunate that the humans who have come before us, Erasmus, Luther, Darwin, advocated equality for all with or without money.

Yours truly,
Survivor.
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Offline Cleopatra2U

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2004, 03:44:00 AM »
All I, in my Agnostic-ness, have to say about this movie after seeing it is...

...it is a visceral portrait of human suffering.

I felt for the character "Jesus" and his mother "Mary" throughout the movie.

I would recommend this movie to anyone, save the violently anti-Christian.  It's a great piece of filmmaking...  A great film adaptation of a classic novel that is based mostly on fiction.

~ M
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he trouble with trouble is it starts out as fun.

Offline Therion

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #41 on: February 29, 2004, 03:26:00 PM »
Christians have killed more people throughout history than ANYONE EVER!

Fuck them...

I kind of see Christian types and the people that ran programs like Straight and Synanon as the same group..

I hope Christianity is stomped out as a whole..

It is generally spread through our children.
I have personally helped a few college aged kid...and people into their 20s to see thru the Christian lie..

"But Therion I read your posts and see you are a miserable person...if you had Jesus youd be happy"

No I was a christian for 22 years and it did nothing for me but give me nightmares..

CHRSITIANITY IS MIND CONTROL...TURN AWAY!!
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Offline RTP2003

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #42 on: February 29, 2004, 03:30:00 PM »
I tend to agree with you, Therion, but I would include almost all religions--the monotheistic ones in particular seem the most harmful.
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Offline Anonymous

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #43 on: February 29, 2004, 04:14:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-28 15:11:00, taureana wrote:

"
Quote

On 2004-02-28 13:21:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2004-02-28 10:51:00, Scott D wrote:







The principles of the Bible are incredible and most people that don't believe.....







You mean like this principle found in genesis?





17:14


And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.





or how about this "principle" to live by?





12:29


And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.








12:30


And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.





These are but two of thousands of such ridiculous, cruel and plainly wrong quotes taken from the bible. Son of God? In Genesis, God has many children





6:1


And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,





6:2


That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.





 GIANTS????





 


6:4


There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.





We haven't left Genesis yet and WOW, what a STORY is developing. I think the movie should have been about these stories!!!!





I think perhaps Scott, you heart is in the right place but you really haven't read the book you profess to live by and love so much.  It is full of the worst of  contradictions, cruelty, misogny, and other crimes against humanity. In addition, it in detail describes ritualist killing of animals to appease god.





In other words, it is bullshit.








"




FYI



1.  God made circumcision mandatory for Abraham in 1919 B.C.E., a year before Isaac's birth.  God said:  "This is my covenant [promise] that you men will keep . . . Every male of yours must get circumcised."  Not only the Israelites practiced circumcision, but also the Egyptians, Moabites, Ammonites and Edomites did too.  Circumcision was made a mandatory requirement of the Mosaic Law.  After God showed his acceptance of Gentiles into the Christiand congregation, and since many from the nations were responding to the preaching of the good news, a decision had to be made concerning circumcision.  The apostle Paul wrote to the Christians in Corinth, "Circumcision does not mean a thing, and uncircumcision means not a thing, but observance of God's commandments does."  Thus, it proved to be a pact at one time between God and his chosen people.  After Jesus' sacrifice, it was no longer necessary, as the Israelites were no longer considered his chosen people.  (Ge. 17:1,9-14,23-27; 1Co. 7:19)



2.  The firstborn came into considerable prominence at the time that God delivered his people from slavery in Egypt.  Among the Egyptians, the firstborn were dedicated as sacred to the sun-god Amon-Ra, the supposed preserver of all the firstborn.  The tenth plague that God brought upon the Egyptians served to discredit this god and showed up his inability to protect the firstborn.  By obeying God's instructions concerning the slaying of a lamb and the splashing of its blood on the doorposts and upper part of the doorway of their houses, the Israelites did not lose their firstborn in death, whereas all the firstborn of the Egyptians, of both man and beast, were slain.(Ex 12:21-23, 28, 29)  Had the Egyptians NOT persecuted God's chosen people, the Israelites, and held them captive in slavery, this would not have happened.  Or, had Pharoah allowed the Israelites their freedom to begin with, God would not have cast the plagues against them.



3.  The expression "Son of God" primarily identifies Christ Jesus.  Others referred to as "son(s) of God" include intelligent spirit creatures produced by God, the man Adam before he sinned, and humans with whom God has dealt on the basis of covenant relationship.



4.  The SONS of God (angels) saw that the women were beautiful and came down to earth, taking on human forms, and had sexual relations with the women [Gen. 6:2].  This was forbidden and unnatural, (Based on the fact that heaven is the proper abode of spirit persons, and the angels there have positions of service under God.(Da 7:9,10)  To leave this abode to dwell on earth and to forsake their assigned service to have fleshly relations would be rebellion against God's laws, and perversion.)so the acts resulted in a hybrid offspring from the angels and women.  The hybrid offspring were giants, also referred to as the Nephilim [Gen 6:4].



Any other questions?  Anyone?  

Have a nice day.  :smile:"



Yeah, like I said...it is bullshit. No archaelogical evidence of Giants ever existed. Supernatural beings fucking women....etc, etc etc.

It is a fantasy story told by ancient middle easterners. If read critically, it is funny as hell.  What is even funnier is quoting totally off the way obviously bullshit stories from the bible and watching christians scramble to justiy them.
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Offline GregFL

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I saw The Passion Of The Christ tonight
« Reply #44 on: February 29, 2004, 04:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-28 15:25:00, taureana wrote:

"It's all history.  If you do your homework you will see that what you call fairy tales actually coincides with historical events."



Okay, gather around and take a lesson in basic logic.  Just because a story is written "coincides" with  certain historical events  does NOT validate the story.

It is like saying "escape from New York" is a true story because we can verify there is a place called New York.

None of the supernatural bullshit in the bible is historically relevant. None of it. I challenge you to produce one supernatural story that can be verified. I also challenge you to produce one document, written during the time of christs supposed life, that mentions him.

Now, run along and do your homework.


[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-02-29 13:34 ]
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