Whitmore Academy in Utah?

[Antigen]

Wait a second here. Are we talking about Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks?  

This might explain why the former student is having a hard time retrieving their belongings from Canada.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=30#47014

http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cg ... buse010227

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
--James Madison, U.S. President

[Antigen]

Eric, can you explain how they get oppositional, troubled teenagers to work like Chinamen and love it? How do they get them to stay there? What stops them from simply walking away? How do the students arrive? Did you bring your kid there yourself or hire a "transport" service?

Time's fun when you're having flies.
--Kermit the Frog

[Anonymous]

"Eric, can you explain how they get oppositional, troubled teenagers to work like Chinamen and love it?"

"Work like Chinamen" is kind of offensive in
these modern days, btw.  They work hard because
that is the culture there - everything reinforces
the values of hard work, and rewards it with
positive feedback.


"How do they get them to stay there? What stops them from simply walking away?"

Some of them run away, but they don't get that
far.  One of the kids stole one of the school
cars and made it a couple of hundred miles, but
ran out of gas.  If your child runs away, you
are responsible for any costs incurred while
trying to find them.


How do the students arrive? Did you bring your kid there yourself or hire a "transport" service?

We went there to look at the place with all
of our kids (we have 3), and then our daughter
went by herself on the plane to Salt lake city.
Mark and Cheryl picked her up from the airport,
because they were on their way to Yosemite
for a camping trip.  They forgot to phone us to
tell us that she had arrived safely, so we
spent 48 hours in fear until we got ahold of
somebody at the school - since then I have gotten
more used to their MO, and I trust the system
that they have set up.

Between you guys in this forum and my Mormon-hating friends who just gave me the book
"Under the banner of Heaven" - I spent the day
questioning my own judgement and doubting
Cheryl and Mark.  So I dug up everything
Google could find, and it amounts to this:

1. The SPCA charge about leaving the horses with
  no food.

I read the court transcripts, and I think that
they screwed up severely.  Since I have met
Trinity, Mark and Cheryl, I know for sure
that meant well, because they are nice, animal
loving people.  The only thing I can think of
is that all the individuals involved must have
thought that the other person was on the job:

http://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL- ... dweeks.htm

The end result is that they lost the horses,
dogs, $124,000 and Mark is never allowed to
own animals in BC again.  Pretty severe
punishment, but it was a big mess up, and I
imagine that they learned their lesson.  I
can't contact them right now, because they
are at a lake retreat.

2.  Alleged co-ownership of "New Hope Academy",
a school in Somoa that was closed because
children were abused and abandoned:

Here is the allegation:

http://www.isaccorp.com/wwasp/documents/wwasplist.pdf

Here is what appears to be the whole story - it
looks like Mark was not involved, he just
got ripped off by the bad guy:

http://www.teenliberty.org/Samoan.htm

The perp, a scumbag named Steve Cartisano,
seems to have done this a number of times,
and is a slick con man.

Anyway, I am comfortable once again, and I
think that you will be too if you go visit
and see how things work there.  We looked
at a second school (forget the name, but
the school was in Hurricane, UT) - it just
did not have the magic that Whitmore has.
The kids were kind of dead inside compared
to the Whitmore kids.  Whitmore is a great
place.

Cheers,

   Eric

[Antigen]

On 2004-10-19 15:32:00, Anonymous wrote:


"How do they get them to stay there? What stops them from simply walking away?"



Some of them run away, but they don't get that

far.  One of the kids stole one of the school

cars and made it a couple of hundred miles, but

ran out of gas.  If your child runs away, you

are responsible for any costs incurred while

trying to find them.

So then, they actively look for kids who run? And what do they do when they find them? Just talk? What? How do they make them go back? How do they discourage them from running in the first place?

How do the students arrive? Did you bring your kid there yourself or hire a "transport" service?



We went there to look at the place with all

of our kids (we have 3), and then our daughter

went by herself on the plane to Salt lake city.

Mark and Cheryl picked her up from the airport,

because they were on their way to Yosemite

for a camping trip.  They forgot to phone us to

tell us that she had arrived safely, so we

spent 48 hours in fear until we got ahold of

somebody at the school - since then I have gotten

more used to their MO, and I trust the system

that they have set up.

So then your daughter went voluntarily? Do they take involuntary placements?

Between you guys in this forum and my Mormon-hating friends who just gave me the book

"Under the banner of Heaven" - I spent the day

questioning my own judgement and doubting

Cheryl and Mark.  So I dug up everything

Google could find, and it amounts to this:



1. The SPCA charge about leaving the horses with

  no food.



I read the court transcripts, and I think that

they screwed up severely.  Since I have met

Trinity, Mark and Cheryl, I know for sure

that meant well, because they are nice, animal

loving people.  The only thing I can think of

is that all the individuals involved must have

thought that the other person was on the job:



http://www.animaladvocates.com/ILLEGAL- ... dweeks.htm



The end result is that they lost the horses,

dogs, $124,000 and Mark is never allowed to

own animals in BC again.  Pretty severe

punishment, but it was a big mess up, and I

imagine that they learned their lesson.  I

can't contact them right now, because they

are at a lake retreat.



2.  Alleged co-ownership of "New Hope Academy",

a school in Somoa that was closed because

children were abused and abandoned:



Here is the allegation:



http://www.isaccorp.com/wwasp/documents/wwasplist.pdf



Here is what appears to be the whole story - it

looks like Mark was not involved, he just

got ripped off by the bad guy:



http://www.teenliberty.org/Samoan.htm



The perp, a scumbag named Steve Cartisano,

seems to have done this a number of times,

and is a slick con man.



Anyway, I am comfortable once again, and I

think that you will be too if you go visit

and see how things work there.  We looked

at a second school (forget the name, but

the school was in Hurricane, UT) - it just

did not have the magic that Whitmore has.

The kids were kind of dead inside compared

to the Whitmore kids.  Whitmore is a great

place.



Cheers,



   Eric



"

I sincerely hope you're right. But I can't fathom being so trusting of strangers w/ my own daughter. I have no reason to doubt the kid(s) who've posted here about verbal and physical abuse at Whitmore. And it seems that Mark and Cheryl's names come up pretty frequently in the context of typical troubled parent industry excesses.

Babylon in all its desolation is a sight not so awful as that of the human mind in ruins.
-- Scrope Davies: Letter to Thomas Raikes, May 25, 1835.

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

"So then, they actively look for kids who run? And what do they do when they find them? Just talk? What? How do they make them go back? How do they discourage them from running in the first place?"

I don't know the details on how runaways are
handled - basically it is a pleasent place,
and the kids don't want to run away for the
most part.  The school is not for "hard case kids"
with serious drug problems and such like,
so they can afford to make it a pleasent (non
prision like) environment.

Would you prefer that they *don't* actively
look for kids that run away?  That sounds
like crazy talk.

"I sincerely hope you're right. But I can't fathom being so trusting of strangers w/ my own daughter. I have no reason to doubt the kid(s) who've posted here about verbal and physical abuse at Whitmore. And it seems that Mark and Cheryl's names come up pretty frequently in the context of typical troubled parent industry excesses."

I never saw their name come up once, anywhere
but this thread.  Can you give me some examples?
The International Survivors Action comittee
(http://www.isaccorp.org/) does not list them
as one of the suspect schools.

The reason that I trust them is that I have
met them, and talked to my daughter (away
from the school, after two months).  My
daughter would prefer to stay there for the
rest of high school, but we can't afford that,
so she will either home school or go back
to the Waldorf school when she gets back.

I think that I can tell when people have
been abused, and there is absolutely no way
that these kids could have been abused
at the school.

You have to trust others with your kids at
some point, if only when they go to college.

Cheers,

    Eric

[Anonymous]

Ooops - I missed one of your questions, sorry.

"So then your daughter went voluntarily? Do they take involuntary placements?"

Yes, she was voluntary.  My wife was all hot on
the school, and I was very against it, before
we went to see the school.

After we visited, she decided that she wanted to
go there, we gave her the choice of whatever
school she wanted to go to that we could
afford.  She was going to be put back a grade
in her current school, which is why she was
willing to change, and Whitmore was her first
choice of schools to change to.

Visiting the school changed my mind.  I don't
think much of religions, but I was won over by
the people (students and adults both).  The
Waldorf school is also Christian, and it
hasn't seemed to hurt my kids.

They do take involentary placements, I would
guess about 25% of the students are involentary.

Cheers,

   Eric

[Antigen]

On 2004-10-19 18:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
You have to trust others with your kids at

some point, if only when they go to college.



Cheers,



    Eric

"

No, when your kids go off to college, they're grown and responsible for themselves. You trust them, not someone else who has control over them.

What is the purpose of preventing communication w/ your daughter at first? Is that always for a set amount of time, or is communication w/ the outside world an earned priviledge?

"Would you prefer that they *don't* actively
look for kids that run away? That sounds
like crazy talk."

Normally, when a kid runs away, you either report them to the cops or you try and contact them yourself. But what I was asking is how they get the kid to go back.

Here are the things that worry me about Whittmore:

Im a former resident of the Whitmore Academy. too make a long story short this place needs to be closed down. there is a lot of abuse that goes on there... and even after being home for almost a year i still get nightmares about that place. the webiste is fake, when u call up to talk to the people abou the program they will tell some of the kids exactly what to say and if they dont say it the right way they will go in OP, that is when u lye face on the floor without moving a muscle or speaking for as long as they keep you there which can be up to a few days. if you move they will beat you. you get brainwashed and verbally abused all day long. Im trying to get cps to check this place out. Tthis is a very private and DISCRETE program that no one really knows anything about. The program is based on the mormon religion and you are forced to practice that and only that, every other religion and belief is forbidden. if you don't, there will be serious consequences. Everything is sugarcoated and kept very discrete... no one really knows anything about this place. but please do not send your child here..

This post:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#55500


If you read the various messages coming in quick succession from the same location, you'll see that they claim to be a parent and a student and, I think, a former student, all claiming to be in different places. They're obviously not in different places. So, if Whitmore is so kind and gentle and pleasant, why would they have to use deception to make the point? Why not get actual happy students and former students who actually are in different parts of the country to post?

This anon post:

"YOU KNOCKED ME DOWN AND SPIT ON ME WHEN I WAS THERE BUT OH BABY AM I STRONGER NOW "

I have no more reason to believe you than this other stranger. I understand your motivations pretty well. Not casting any disparagement on you here. Everyone has motives for everything we do or we wouldn't do anything. Just that it's very easy to explain away all kinds of things, no matter what your gut tells you, if you really need to believe.

But the enforced non-communication is the big red flag. Why in the world would they prevent your kid from calling home? What do they say to them during the time that they're not allowed to talk to you?

(this just in)
They do take involentary placements, I would
guess about 25% of the students are involentary.

So, how do they keep involuntary kids there and get them to go along w/ the program? I'm not suggesting that they shackle them to the wall physically. It's so hard to articulate what I am trying to ask about here. Bear in mind that, after first phase (which could be anywhere from a month or two to many months) we were never physically restrained from leaving Straight. From third phase on, we even went to school or work and had physical access to phones and whatever. Even given all the true horror stories about what went on there, they didn't need to physically prevent us from leaving or from telling about what went one once they'd broken us down. We outnumbered staff onsite by roughly 20/1 most of the time, yet I can count the instances riots and walk-outs that occured over 16 years in over 20 locations on just one hand.

The thing that concerns me about these places is the psychological and emotional abuse that can and does occur under the right circumstances. Placing kids under the authority of other kids who, in turn, are under the authority of charismatic newage gurus and isolated even from their own families seems to set up just the right conditions for this kind of psyche abuse.

To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

I'm Eric's wife.  I'm very sorry for your experience, but the Whitmore is not like what you describe or like what the "close it down" person implies.  We went there and had a fabulous time.  So much so that my middle daughter who is 9 really wants to go there when she comes of age, even though she has no problems, goes to a fantastic school, and is virtually perfect from a parental point of view.  I asked the Whitmore if that would be possible and was given the answer that they do also accept students who have no struggles or problems - I was told that there are about 3 students like that currently.  I see this experience as a brilliant rite of passage that suits the teenage transition well.  Even though it costs so much money - about $45,000 for 1 year, we will seriously look at trying to afford it for my middle daughter.  It is absolutely brilliant - my eldest daughter is amazingly redeemed.  We are so impressed with their program.  It seems so human yet stretches and heals these teenagers.  We have not heard of anything that we would count as abuse.  They have limits, not abuse.
  It sounds as if you have had a terrible experience that would take some recovery.  I hope that you get the good attention that you need to do that.

[Antigen]

Look, Eric's wife, don't assume that my interest in the industry is nothing more than a personal grudge. It's not.

I'm interested to know how this school, or any other, goes about retaining students who are placed involuntarily. Do you know the answer? If not, then you should find out because, along with whatever else she's experiencing, your daughter is also wittnessing and/or participating in that.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The people who ran straight had the best of intentions. I hope they reached their destination.

http://stopsembler.org/' target='_new'>James Lloyd

[Anonymous]

Who is this eric ?  is it the same child abuser that was given free reign at cedu to do whatever his feelings tell him to do ?   any melzer stories

[Anonymous]

On 2004-10-20 12:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Who is this eric ?  is it the same child abuser that was given free reign at cedu to do whatever his feelings tell him to do ?   any melzer stories "

I have no idea what you are talking about,
sorry, mr/mrs Anonymous.

Anyway, Antigen - I will find out how they
retain their reluctant students and report
back.  I'm feeling like you already have your
mind set, though.

What would be a school that would meet your
criteria as "good"?  I think that any boarding
school would be a problem for you.

It looks to me like there is a system set up
here, where it is assumed that all of these
schools are abusive.  Any information that
reinforces this is lauded, and anything that
does not reinforce it is disparaged as "part
of the conspiricy", or "must be someone from
the industry", or "don't know what you are
talking about, they are conning you".

The world is not so dark as that.

Cheers,

   Eric

[Anonymous]

Is it true that they come and take the kids in the middle of the night and send them off?

[Anonymous]

They don't have to be. Escorts wake up kids in the early morning so the kid can't think to resist. (This is a good thing, btw.) However, parents do have the option of bringing the child themselves.

[Antigen]

How is it a good thing to rope kids into these places w/o their informed consent?

There's only one party on Capital Hill and it's the bipartisan spending party.
http://www.cagw.org/' target='_new'>Tom Schatz, president of Citizens Against Government Waste

[Anonymous]

I have been having some trouble in school and other things so my dad, looking for potential alternatives, went to whitmore and said it seemed very nice, but I looked into it and from all the stuff i'v read it seems a bit iffy. I looked on the website and on the kids personal schedules it says that they have a 17 hour day and the main activity seems to be cleaning. I dont wanna spend 4000 a month to help clean some families house. also, how can people say it doesnt seem very religeousley oriented. On every single childs personal page it started out saying "im a child of the heavenly father." and the stuff the right kindoff seems for lack of a better word, scripted. The vocabulary and use of language and spirituality seemed very advanced for a 16 year old.