Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Behrens Study vs. ASTART Debate thread
none-ya:
No Whooter. I have no children. But I would never place my offspring in the incapable hands of untrained minimum wage ex- walmart greeters. Where are all the kids that you claim are so grateful to their respective programs? They've certainly boycotted fornits. Talk about one sided, where'syour backup? You are an army of one. I guess we shouldn't be too worried. You are just one small voice.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "none-ya" ---No Whooter. I have no children. But I would never place my offspring in the incapable hands of untrained minimum wage ex- walmart greeters.
--- End quote ---
I think most parents would agree with you, none-ya. Although I have nothing against Walmart greeters I would prefer that my children be placed in more capable hands when it comes to their well-being. One of the things I did research prior to placing my daughter was the capability of the staff and people she would be surrounded by.
--- Quote --- Where are all the kids that you claim are so grateful to their respective programs? They've certainly boycotted fornits. Talk about one sided, where'syour backup? You are an army of one. I guess we shouldn't be too worried. You are just one small voice.
--- End quote ---
Lets take Walmart, since you brought it up. Imagine 100 people buying new televisions from Walmart and 2 of them failed to work after installing them on the wall. How many phone calls would Walmart receive? Who would be most likely to post their experience the guy who was happy or the one that got stiffed?
See what I mean? The kids who did well just moved on with their life and want to forget the rough patch they experienced. The ones that were hurt are still pissed and want to be heard. Its a natural reaction and fornits is a good place to voice their opinions.
...
psy:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---Lets take Walmart, since you brought it up. Imagine 100 people buying new televisions from Walmart and 2 of them failed to work after installing them on the wall. How many phone calls would Walmart receive? Who would be most likely to post their experience the guy who was happy or the one that got stiffed?
--- End quote ---
And yet somehow people who are satisfied do post, say, amazon ratings, and not just the unsatisfied ones. Here. That's a customer review page for a blender I selected at random. As you can see, satisfied customers will not just tick a star, but also write walls of text on what they thought of the product. Most of the reviews are very good while one in particular is very bad, due to the unit failing early, customer support being bad, and it taking a long time to get a replacement. According to your theory, none of those positive ratings should be there. Yet they are. The vast majority of them are. What I take from this is that the blender is very good, but in the off chance it breaks, i'm SOL. Even I write reviews, and the vast majority are positive. I can't even remember the last negative review I wrote.
Why is it that the vast majority of "reviews" here by former participants in programs are negative? Is there something about programs that make them unique when it comes to "customer" reviews. I grant you that it's not a valid scientific study (and neither is Behrens), but at the same time I think most who shop online will tell you that customer ratings, averaged, are generally a pretty good indicator of the quality of the product. Is there something unique to programs that exempts them from this principle that applies to pretty much everything I can think of? Or is the more plausible explanation that the quality of the product really isn't that great in reality. Can you explain this? I mean it's not like i'm removing positive reviews. After all. You're still around, despite almost universal insistence I get rid of you.
psy:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "blombrowski" ---"Designed to be abusive" might not be the right terminology - the intent in most programs is not to abuse. However, my hypothesis is that the CEDU influenced programs are designed in such a way that it should be expected to cause harm.
Lifesteps, raps, etc. were designed to be stressful. If I take a group of a hundred random people and prepare them for a marathon exactly the same way, some people are going to be successful and be in the best shape of their life. Some people are going to finish the marathon, but have permanent knee damage. And probably at least one person will suffer a fatal heart attack, either before, during, or after the marathon.
--- End quote ---
I like that analogy better myself
--- End quote ---
Of course you do. Marathons are healthy, or at least neutral activities for 99.9% of people (unless, perhaps, the Tsarnaev family is around). That's where the analogy falls apart. The goal of these activities is to affect rapid change without much consideration as to it's permanence, or it's safety. 90% of the time they affect the temporary change desired with lasting effects that can in and of themselves be considered to be negative. Perhaps 1% "freak out" during the process and require serious psychological treatment to deal with it. Marathons aren't designed to gain psychological compliance manipulatively. Somebody running a marathon does so with informed consent.
none-ya:
--- Quote ---Whooter wrote;
One of the things I did research prior to placing my daughter was the capability of the staff and people she would be surrounded by.
--- End quote ---
I'm sure most parents do what they think is research by reading a brochure and watching a slick promotional video with paid shills and actors. (see S.I.B.S.) NEW AND IMPROVED!! just like any other commercial product.
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