Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Behrens Study vs. ASTART Debate thread
blombrowski:
Thanks for the fact check. I was referring to specifically the kinds of circumstances found in the Aaron Bacon and Sergey Blauchstein deaths. Deaths that could be directly attributed to program design in a "parent-choice" facility. If we reduce the time frame to three years, the deaths listed are the function of "flukes" i.e. the traffic accident at Sunrise, or deaths in publicly funded group homes/rtcs i.e. Daystar, Leak & Watts.
The restraint deaths were all preventable, but can you just hear Whooter saying "well that's what you get with government funded residential".
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "blombrowski" ---Thanks for the fact check. I was referring to specifically the kinds of circumstances found in the Aaron Bacon and Sergey Blauchstein deaths. Deaths that could be directly attributed to program design in a "parent-choice" facility. If we reduce the time frame to three years, the deaths listed are the function of "flukes" i.e. the traffic accident at Sunrise, or deaths in publicly funded group homes/rtcs i.e. Daystar, Leak & Watts.
The restraint deaths were all preventable, but can you just hear Whooter saying "well that's what you get with government funded residential".
--- End quote ---
Blombrowski, not sure how long you have been posting here, but this is the mentality that has been dominant here on Fornits over the past several years. Imagine if a child was hit by a car on the way home from public school and a web site similar to fornits with a poster like "Pile of Dead Kids" was trying to spin the accident into the public school system being an abusive environment and wanting to shut down all public schools. If we applied this same criteria (mentality) to public schools we would have a death list a mile long. There are some people who are so anti program that they somehow tricked themselves into believing that any circumstance of death is the responsibility of the program no matter how removed the child was. Even Psy, who seems very well educated, attributed a persons relapse into alcohol at age 43 to a program that they attended as a teen when we were talking about Barbara Walters daughter and her recent DUI arrest.
I am glad that you are able to differentiate and see that deaths like restraint deaths are those that we should be focusing on when focusing on the industry, not car accidents or DUI's at middle age.
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Judge Joe:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
Most of the boots on the ground, on the other hand, give up and leave after realizing all their efforts to treat kids and spread the grand vision was for naught, and that it might have actually done more harm than good. I'd wager this is a good part of why the "grunt" staff turnover in so many programs is so high. Eventually the facts on the ground that "shit just isn't working" becomes too much to ignore. In the program I was in I witnessed two separate staff members expressing just this sentiment out loud. One left. One who was higher up attempted to change things.
Based on what I saw when returning later to survey the place, I don't think she was able to change much. Perhaps she realized by changing the structure laid out by the founding fathers of theses systems, the thought reform environment would cease to function. It's a bit like trying to redesign a car without even a basic understanding of mechanics. Those who are able to manage, however, by comprehending the totality of the system -- those are the sociopaths. They exist, but by and large I think most programs are rife with normal, misguided, people who are just trying to do what they can to help kids. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
--- End quote ---
I saw things a little differently. The turn over rate is high because of the stress, long hours and dedication needed to make these programs successful. I think if we were to measure the number of staff who watched these kids "to the end" and saw their growth at graduation, the number of staff who signed up for another group would be high. All the staff that I met wanted to pick up a new peer group and start again. Witnessing these kids transition and get reunited with their families was something they wanted to do again. Some could not because of commitments to graduate school, career path obligations etc.
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--- End quote ---
In addition to what Whooter said, the turnover rate in programs are high because:
1. Management fails to support lower level staff
2. Management fails to provide employees with adequate training
3. Management enforces the old "unwritten rules"
4. Management fails to screen violent kids
5. Management fails to hire more staff compromising the safety of other children
Pile of Dead Kids:
--- Quote from: "blombrowski" ---Thanks for the fact check. I was referring to specifically the kinds of circumstances found in the Aaron Bacon and Sergey Blauchstein deaths. Deaths that could be directly attributed to program design in a "parent-choice" facility. If we reduce the time frame to three years, the deaths listed are the function of "flukes" i.e. the traffic accident at Sunrise, or deaths in publicly funded group homes/rtcs i.e. Daystar, Leak & Watts.
The restraint deaths were all preventable, but can you just hear Whooter saying "well that's what you get with government funded residential".
--- End quote ---
There shouldn't be any such thing as a private-public partnership when it comes to incarcerating anyone, child or adult. The concept is an abdication of responsibility and leads directly to abuse and death. Giving someone's life over to a private entity should be banned by Constitutional amendment.
Even if you discount those, the Rose Rock facility, where Joseph Winters was killed, is entirely private. He did something they didn't like, they jumped on him, he struggled, and they killed him at once and deleted the video recording. Frankly I count him among the lucky ones; he never had to endure much of the program at all.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids" ---There shouldn't be any such thing as a private-public partnership when it comes to incarcerating anyone, child or adult. The concept is an abdication of responsibility and leads directly to abuse and death. Giving someone's life over to a private entity should be banned by Constitutional amendment.
--- End quote ---
Pile, You would get along with my neighbor so well. His wife home schools all his kids and does not believe in incarcerating any of them into a private or public setting. His wife was abused as a child in the public school system and now doesn't believe in government or privately run programs. When we speak of my daughters experiences he writes the whole thing off to just lucky that she did well and that all government programs are treating everyone the same with no individualized training.
There are a lot of people who just feel the family should take care of their own children no matter what and they should not seek outside help. I don't believe in that on every level but I respect peoples opinion and their right to raise their children the way they think is the best for them.
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