Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Teen Trouble - Josh Shipp - EXPOSED
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
This is the crux of the issue right here. He believes he was helped by his treatment and took it upon himself to treat others in turn. It doesn't matter whether the treatment was objectively helpful in comparison to say, a control group. All that matters is that he believes he was helped.
--- End quote ---
I really dont see this as a problem at all Psy. This is how the whole world has evolved. People try things and if they benefit from them then they pass it on, if they eat a berry and feel sick or die then others take note and no one will eat that particular berry. Right now I am adding Noni juice to a morning shake that I make. It has been reported that it boosts the immune system, although I cannot find any studies that support this I have read enough to know the risk is good and have added it to my diet. Most people are not willing to wait for outcome studies on anything, even when it comes to their health or childrens health. People assess the risks and then make a decision.
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psy:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
This is the crux of the issue right here. He believes he was helped by his treatment and took it upon himself to treat others in turn. It doesn't matter whether the treatment was objectively helpful in comparison to say, a control group. All that matters is that he believes he was helped.
--- End quote ---
I really dont see this as a problem at all Psy. This is how the whole world has evolved. People try things and if they benefit from them then they pass it on, if they eat a berry and feel sick or die then others take note and no one will eat that particular berry.
--- End quote ---
Except that a berry might not kill everybody who eats it, and some might see it as beneficial. One good example is with Mescal Beans. The psychedelic dose is very close to a lethal one. I certainly wouldn't suggest people try it.
--- Quote ---Right now I am adding Noni juice to a morning shake that I make. It has been reported that it boosts the immune system, although I cannot find any studies that support this I have read enough to know the risk is good and have added it to my diet. Most people are not willing to wait for outcome studies on anything, even when it comes to their health or childrens health. People assess the risks and then make a decision.
--- End quote ---
So there's this juice that nobody really knows what it does, there has been at least one study linking it to liver and kidney damage (click side effects, also see Wikipedia), there has been no published concrete evidence of any health benefits whatsoever -- and you've decided it's a good idea to drink it on a regular basis. Well. If your risk assessment deems that suitable -- it's your body to do with what you please. Thank heavens for organ donors. And as you note since kids are little more than property of their parents, the parents are also free to experiment on their kids with similar abandon. Science be damned. Peer reviewed studies be damned. Anecdote and false hope should be enough for anybody.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
So there's this juice that nobody really knows what it does, there has been at least one study linking it to liver and kidney damage (click side effects, also see Wikipedia), there has been no published concrete evidence of any health benefits whatsoever -- and you've decided it's a good idea to drink it on a regular basis. Well. If your risk assessment deems that suitable -- it's your body to do with what you please. Thank heavens for organ donors. And as you note since kids are little more than property of their parents, the parents are also free to experiment on their kids with similar abandon. Science be damned. Peer reviewed studies be damned. Anecdote and false hope should be enough for anybody.
--- End quote ---
I believe in weighing the positives and negatives and making an informed decision on what is best. Nothing is 100% safe. Drinking red wine can cause liver damage also but is also good for your heart. Everything has a negative side effect, drinking too much water puts a lot of stress on the kidneys and disrupts normal digestion. I think most people collect as much information as they can and make an informed decision whether it be their children or their health.
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psy:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" --- Drinking red wine can cause liver damage also but is also good for your heart.
--- End quote ---
Possibly. Then again, the article says:
--- Quote from: "Mayo Clinic" ---Red wine seems to have even more heart-healthy benefits than other types of alcohol, but it's possible that red wine isn't any better than beer, white wine or liquor for heart health. There's still no clear evidence that red wine is better than other forms of alcohol when it comes to possible heart-healthy benefits.
Antioxidants in red wine called polyphenols may help protect the lining of blood vessels in your heart. A polyphenol called resveratrol is one substance in red wine that's gotten attention.
Resveratrol in red wine
Resveratrol might be a key ingredient in red wine that helps prevent damage to blood vessels, reduces "bad" cholesterol and prevents blood clots.
Most research on resveratrol has been done on animals, not people. Research in mice given resveratrol suggests that the antioxidant might also help protect them from obesity and diabetes, both of which are strong risk factors for heart disease. However, those findings were reported only in mice, not in people. In addition, to get the same dose of resveratrol used in the mice studies, a person would have to drink over 60 liters of red wine every day.
--- End quote ---
Wow. So basically to get the health benefits from red wine you would have to drink so much you'd die of alcohol poisoning long before. And only if you're a mouse.
--- Quote ---I think most people collect as much information as they can and make an informed decision whether it be their children or their health.
--- End quote ---
And as you've just pointed out with both this and the Noni juice, what often seems like an informed, good decision, based on what you've casually overhead on the 7-o-clock news or what seems to be "common knowledge", is often not in actual fact, a good idea (or at best, completely benign). Parents think, based on superficial research, tv "experts, or "common knowledge", that programs are a good idea for their kids. In actual fact, there has never been any evidence, aside from anecdote, to support that conclusion. We do know, however, based on actual research, that confrontational techniques like the ones commonly used in programs can cause lasting harm. In other words, in order to get the possible, theoretical benefits of Resveratrol, you have to take the very real and documented risk of alcohol poisoning.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---Wow. So basically to get the health benefits from red wine you would have to drink so much you'd die of alcohol poisoning long before. And only if you're a mouse.
--- End quote ---
lol No I dont read it that way. There is no indication we would need to consume the same ratio as mice to reap the benefits. The studies are ongoing, if it was concluded that we needed to consume 60 lites a day then there would be no need to continue to research this. Typically they do testing on animals and then follow up with testing on humans.
--- Quote ---And as you've just pointed out with both this and the Noni juice, what often seems like an informed, good decision, based on what you've casually overhead on the 7-o-clock news or what seems to be "common knowledge", is often not in actual fact, a good idea (or at best, completely benign). Parents think, based on superficial research, tv "experts, or "common knowledge", that programs are a good idea for their kids. In actual fact, there has never been any evidence, aside from anecdote, to support that conclusion. We do know, however, based on actual research, that confrontational techniques like the ones commonly used in programs can cause lasting harm. In other words, in order to get the possible, theoretical benefits of Resveratrol, you have to take the very real and documented risk of alcohol poisoning.
--- End quote ---
I dont take the advice of 7 o’clock news, psy. Like most other parents we investigate and look at many points of view and collect as much information as possible. From what I have read, so far, Noni juice is much better for you than most other juices and Red Wine (in moderation) is healthy for you based on studies to date (Mice may benefit more than humans).
People cant sit around waiting for studies to be done on everything. If your child is in need of an anti-cancer medication and all other avenues have been tried unsuccessfully then most parents would be willing to try a medication that is still undergoing trial studies to see if it has an effect on their child.
People need to rely on their common sense and the information available to them at the time they need to make a decision.
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