Message to Thom

[GregFL]

Thom, I started a new thread because the old one became way to personal between you and your sister. My last comment about that situation is I do hope you guys one day will come to some understanding.

I just want to reiterate that your postings are welcome here and your opinion, in my view, is valid. Perhaps you can find a way to contribute and work on your personal issues with your family in another venue.

We disagree on so much about the seed, but still share common experiences. Marc had asked you some questions about your experience in the last thread, and maybe you would be so kind as to answer them. Marc is right, and I share his interest on how people with similar backgrounds and intellect can come out of this experience with such a varied opinion of what happened, how one person can feel so uplifted while the next so violated, how one can feel like their childhood was saved and others feel it was stolen from them, and how others can shrug it off while it deeply bothers the next guy. I am interested in your comments about this.
 
Welcome once again, Thom.

[GregFL]

Thanks.  I do not think that explains it all tho. Many people whom signed themselves in voluntarily then had problems, and some people forced or coerced in seem to feel it was positive.
Still searching for the answer.

[Antigen]

The only thing I know of that seperates survivors from alumni is the extent to which they bought into the two most essintial tenets of the program; coming to view yourself as worthless and unworthy and                           accepting The Program as your only possible path to salvation.

For some people, they were already there before intake. Some people never gave in even after years. But for those who bought into it, take away the program and they think there's nothing left.

Thom, it ain't true even if you believe it. Never was.

[GregFL]

thanks for the song. lol

It wasn't a quiz it was a question, and as I suspected, you and I alone aren't able to solve that one. The answer is still lurking somewhere. Ginger's point was right on imho.



Thom, I think we all refer to "the program" for what it is, the modality of treatment first popularized at Synanon,split off by CEDU, bastardized by Art Barker, continued by Mel Sembler, tweaked by Miller Newton,  reclaimed by Loretta Parrish and countless other adolescent treatment center directors. It is all and the same, and it is "the program". It has it's roots in chinese/Korean thought reform, which is why the druggies used to yell at us "THE SEED SUCKS". It did, you know its true, and saying it won't lead to a needle in your arm.



Also, the "I wasn't shit on the streets" "I would be deadinsaneinjail without the Seed" "no one really liked you" "you were a big asshole on the streets" (like we all ran around skid row or something) and many other types of "worthless litany" was prevalant and rampant in the Seed.It was a big part of the fundamental 'treatment' we got, break us down to nothing and then bestow validity to us after we break.

"luv ya Karen" as the 14 year old virgin girl stands weeping after being torn up and called a slut in front of 500 of her 'friends', told she was ugly, told she was only used for sex, that no one really possibly could have liked her. This was the "magic" that Art stole from the synanon and graciously bestowed on us children some 29 years ago.



Basically, powerless without the group means the same thing as worthless without the group. I would refer you to Marc's post a few threads back. Marc was in the same warehouse, perhaps at the same time you were down there on 84th near the dike, you know, the real hot place with the big bugs and the barbed wire.



I Was never a drug addict and I suspect that prior to going in, you were not either. Art rarely took real addicts, and when he did, if memory serves me correctly, they mostly made a lot of fanfare about it and then they usually disapeard within a short amount of time.

What I was was a messed up kid. Messed up because my mother deserted me, messed up because my father was alternatively a control freak and a neglector, messed up because I was seeking self medication thru pot, poor friends and bad decisions. But addict, never!!!(as I sip my 'required' cup of morning coffee).

I have been drug free for about 20 years, don't smoke cigs and seem to be able, like most people, to drink socially without any hint of a drinking problem.I dont' drink every day or even every week. Sometimes when I do I have too much which results in me having way to much fun, just ask those at the convention this past weekend. This is after going thru addiction treatment at age 14. Imagine this. I will never attribute my decision to stop smoking pot to the program.actually, I just kinda stopped enjoying it one day.



 As a matter of point, Thom, I am a Seed graduate that like so many of my graduate friends, took much more drugs after graduating (you too?), but now had a healthy mistrust of all authority figures and had no family support group to fall back on. After all, my father and I weren't speaking.I was a "druggie" , and he was a board member of Straight, Inc. He thought I was dying, and I thought he was crazy. We were both wrong.

 

What I needed was a real family, not an artificial addiction diagnosis, brainwashing   and cultic behavior.



Which leads us right back around to my original point, we have huge differences in perception on what occured there, but unlike what Suzy taught me, I still like you even tho we disagree. you seem kinda cool, actually, and I am glad to have you around here.



[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2002-06-10 08:16 ]



[Ok, I was playing around with the 'censor bad words' feature that came with this bbs software. I made it switch out "Miller Newton" for "Miller 'Fr. Cashin' Newton" just for laughs. I see now that it really changed the mood of someone's post and so I've taken out those aliases (there were some other good ones) and returned Greg's post above to it's original sense and form.

Ginger (aka Antigen)


and I used the opportunity to correct some spelling and grammatical errors. It was a cool idea Ginger.
[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2002-06-10 15:11 ]

[ This Message was edited by: gregfl on 2002-06-10 17:00 ]

[MommaDebi]

Gee Greg....your thoughts echo a lot of my own.

What I needed growing up was love, praise and support....it is unfortunate that there were no adults in my life capable of giving me those basic needs...

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]