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Offline Matt C. Hoffman

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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2003, 02:49:00 PM »
Yes the previous post is mine ,swear to God I was signed !

Dang computers

Oh well Happy Holidays everyone
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Offline hidingout

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« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2003, 03:32:00 PM »
I am still seeking info about this man. I need something that is solid to bring to my friend.  Anyone willing to share amythig with me.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2003, 03:51:00 PM »
Well I know I will prob be attact for this post but I gotta tell things the way I see it...
  Art,Matt,Diane,Mike all I have spoken to and said excetly this.
  I too was at Elan with Ken now I have also told him I view their treatment as abuse and I will aways see it that way and if theres a way to get a few bucks out of it HELL YEAH Iam there.
   But as far as Ken is concerend I spent alot of time with him he was my director along with Peter  and never once did he try or do anything wrong to me( now i realize someones gonna come up with something stupid whatever go ahead)I was 14 years old from a modest home in chicago I was pretty much quiet at elan and got through it that way
    I too can tell the same stories as others have here but enough is enough I never once thought of all the hurt and meaness (and my own as well) that would come of all of this. So to those of you who want to call me names act like children go ahead these are my views my feelings and if they are only valid to me thats just fine...  MARY
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2003, 04:52:00 PM »
Hey Mary ,

Why would anyone attack you over what you said ?

Everyone's experience at elan was as different as how each snowflake is different .

I am very happy that you did not suffer at the hands of zaretski and mccann,and glad that you felt that you basically slid through by being quiet . Good for you .(many people suffed at the hands of elan and its henchmen )

There were folks that were seriously hurt by those men and I am glad that you were not one of them .

I believe you came in a few months after I did .(there is a lot you did not see .)

It is my opinion that there are many people that no longer dance on this planet for just having come in contact with elan and its henchmen (directors );as well as people that now roam the earth as emotional cripples from their contact with elan and its henchmen ;as well as people who went to prison after or during their elan experience . I am truly glad Mary that you are not one of these people .

Mary I do want you to know that I have not posted anything that I don't believe to be true and I patiently wait to speak to investigators ,or my chance to go infront of a judge and tell the truth .

Mary I heard through the grapevine that you were also looking for Scott Blair . When you find him please let him know that I would like to speak with him too.

Well Mary I hope you have a wonderful holiday experience .

Matt
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2003, 09:22:00 PM »
20 years ago, I viewed the whole thing very like you do, Mary. That's why I didn't sue or give a statement to the DA. It was an honor thing and it was important. My dad had flipped completely and took to things like making false police reports against me to try and get me back in the Program. I wanted him to remember what he'd taught me about letting anyone pit us against each other. And he did.

I got through it the same way you did till things got so nutz I couldn't stay quiet. And, of course, I couldn't speak up without putting at least some miles between me and them.

Once I was free of it, I thought that was the end of it. But, since then, I've found out that these places are still running, turning families against each other. They're still hurting people.

And it's not just the small number of families that go through Elan. There are hundreds of TBS schools around the country working essentially the same quack therapy on thousands of kids and their parents. Elan is just one of them.

There's a slight diversion from the Elan method. They don't just have a parents web forum. They have 3 day seminars for the parents. And these parents fork over wheelbarrows of cash and will vote and lobby for or against just about anything they're told to.

This industry, judicial prisons and the war industry are just about the only growth industries in this country. That's not the way I want to leave the world to grandchildren. I care a lot more about them than I ever will about anyone who might be hurt by exposing this industry for what it is.

Preacher man don't tell me heaven is under the earth; you don't know what life is worth;.......If you know what life is worth, you will look for your's on earth.

--Bob Marley



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Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
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Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
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[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2003-12-24 18:23 ]
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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2003, 09:54:00 PM »
Ginger its not about honor, and if there are places still hurting kids then I commend your efforts.
My post was about my truth! What I know nothing more then that. Anyone whos knows me knows I am an honest person.
So I dont have some nasty story to tell about Ken dosnt mean I'am not calling it straight up dose it?
I do feel bad for people who are having a hard time with this and god knows I understand, for me it was about the money. I know how cold that may sound but its the truth, somehow 2 years later its really not that important.........


Mary
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2003, 10:32:00 PM »
I bet if your kid attended Stratford High in Goose Creek you'd want to know something about the power behind making a SWAT raid happen at your local high school. Well, you're in luck! If that's not happening to your kids where you are, you already know something about them. You've got a jump on them. You can clue in your neighbors before they make the fatal mistake of letting their philisphical brethren into the schools, plice and juvenile justice systems.


Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense

--Buddha

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2003, 08:20:00 PM »
Thnaks Art you know who and what iam I can live with that. Even if we dont agree ....
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2003, 03:23:00 PM »
Art, I know Mary's OK.

I get frustrated when ppl just don't see the bigger picture. I deeply respect ppl's personal choices wrt how to respond. But it frightens me when ppl close their minds to the fact that this is a much bigger and more important issue than just the personal stories of people involved. It's simply not. This is a growth industry and we know the nature of it. It's not just the 5k or so rich kids in private placement, either, they're working the same program in juvenile justice and prison industries, all in the name of "therapy".

Now, knowing that, if you think the best way to spend all your time and energy is to invest in your own kids coming up with a word view that will cause them to reject the philosophy out of hand, great! Maybe you're more right than I am. Maybe, when we're old and if we're still friends and can compare notes, we'll find that I fucked up, neglected my kids too much to go out and slay the dragons that they haven't even seen. But maybe not. We can agree to disagree on the best way to deal with the issue here and now with absolutely no animosity, nothing but the deepest respect on my part.

But if you're putting down this issue because you believe that it can no longer effect you and your family, you're mistaken.

Education is that which remains, if one has forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years, 1950

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2003, 05:08:00 PM »
Art, this is a touchy ethical issue for me. I disaprove of ppl trying to manipulate others into some action or adversity w/ guilt or fear. I know I've come accross that way in the past and I regret it. It was never my intent. My only intention in this has ever been to inform.

I could cite all kinds of material to support my argument. And I often do. But most of the evidence is stuff we all know already. We just don't necessarily connect the dots.

Here's the problem as I see it, with heavy emphasis on the personalities and organizations I've been most familiar with.

First, Elan is not unique. Ok, every place and time and personal experience is unique in ways. But that's not what I'm talking about. Elan is just one of hundreds of therapeutic boarding schools using the confrontation therapeutic community treatment model.

Essentially, I see these facilities as a very agressive implimentation of the standard trend, over the past 150 years, to institutionalize the tasks once left to the private domain of families and communities. The kids who wind up in these intense facilities, whether private or public, overtly religious or not, w or w/o judicial coercion, are the ones who have resisted whatever the broader system has in mind for them. They may have been labeled ADD, ADHD, ODD or whatever and they stubornly refuse to accept the judgement that they are flawed and that whatever the adults want them to do or want to do to them, that they should comply.

Look at what we, as a society, are asking them to accept. Goose Creek is emblematic of the problem. ( current news on Goose Creek http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&editi ... oose+creek )

Between zero tolerance, rampant piss testing, the media frenzy over juvenile violence and debauchery (none of which is supported by crime stats), kids today have to walk a far narrower path in order to keep their "pretty good kid" standing. That, I believe, is the primary reason why the troubled parent and forced treatment industries are growing so fast. It's not that kids are getting more insane. It's that we're labeling more of them as 'in need of service' or 'underserved' or 'possible gang affiliate' or... or... the list goes on.

Then there are specific efforts on the part of organizations (the ones who's names I know) like Drug Free America Foundation and Partnership for a Drug Free America (two sides of the same coin, those), Drug and Alcohol Testing Industries Association, Global Institute on Drug Abuse, Drug Policy Network of the Americas which I know to be closely tied with the Seed/Straight line of the troubled parent industry and who are extremely influential in matters of domestic and foreign policy. I know their philosophy, I can see manifestations of it all over the place and I want people to understand just how dangerous these people are.

It's very quickly getting to the point where any deviation from authorized views and activities is equated with potential terrorist involvement. Check out the RAVE Act that was tacked on as a rider to the Amber Act http://www.mapinc.org/raves.htm

It is now illegal, under felony penalties, for a concert promoter or venue owner to organize or host a concert where anyone in the audience might be expected to have some illegal drugs on them.

I know, it's a long walk from there to Elan. But it is related if you look at Elan, not as a singular, isolated cult, but as a part of the troubled parent industry that it is.

Exposing these groups always causes some pain and trouble for the people involved. But remaining silent about them, in my opinion, causes more pain and more trouble for more people.

Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2003, 09:38:00 PM »
Hey ART, Maybe someone should call you out.  I went into KENS chatroom not to long ago and YOU were in there being buddy buddy with him.  Whats that all about.  When I started talking about nightmares I had about elan the great SUPPORT that you gave me was   "lol.  You need to go to therapy"  No one knows how two faced you are because they only see this side of you.  Why don't you talk about how your always on Ken's site acting like his best friend.  No one should trust you, your just sitting on the fence.
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Offline E7haterJe

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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2003, 12:54:00 AM »
Speaking of Joe Ricci...has anyone read that book: Duck in a Raincoat? I was thinkin bout ordering it to read? :question:
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Offline SyN

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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2003, 06:53:00 PM »
its posted on kens site, dont buy the damn thing, have mr dan bostdorff send it to you. you neva eva know.
SyN
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A word to the wise is infuriating.\"

Offline E7haterJe

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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2003, 11:15:00 PM »
SYN elaborate? i am sorry whom is that?
Jenn :wstupid:
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Offline SyN

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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2003, 11:57:00 PM »
sorry but i dont wanna elaborate about the book, if you go to jackies site you can see my many posts on the subject.  :smile: enough cyber space has been wasted bashing people here, im tryin to turn a new leaf, being supreme overlord n all...  
heres a link but i dont know how to make it clikable perhaps some one can enlighten me..
SyN

http://groups.msn.com/TIMETOCLOSETHEDOO ... board.msnw
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
A word to the wise is infuriating.\"