Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Apologia - Serious debate only, please!
Anonymous:
What I don't understand is the "due process" thing. Isn't that done in a court of law? Most of these kids haven't broken any laws (legally speaking) but they have broken a lot of other things. Who says the parents are healthy, happy,wonderful people? When the kid hurts, so do the parents - at least most of the time. Some show it more than others. Anyway, if there is ever a way to have a due process in this type of situation, then I would agree. As it is right now, it comes from the school counselors, the family therapists, and other professionals such as judges and law enforcement officers and of course, the parents in total breakdown.
I keep reading about due process...can that ever really happen? Most judges know these programs are a better alternative than juvenile jail.
Anonymous:
No, most juvenile judges know how bad the Juvenile Justice system is. What they don't know is these private lock-down facilities ain't any better. After all, when was the last time you saw a juvenile judge or family court judge taking a tour of one of these teen warehouses? Second, the Juvenile Justice system does not hold kids indefinitly. Adjudicated youth KNOW the duration of their sentence which is by far, the better deal.
:wave:
Deborah:
I suppose I'm cynical, but I don't think a kid could ever get a fair shake with "due process" if the parent is intent on warehousing them. It's the parent's (and program's) word against the teens. In my case, both perjured themselves.
The therapists I've encountered were too chicken shit to tell the truth to the parent. Tell the truth and you loose a paying client. One told my son- who was complaining about his dad and step-mom violating their contract agreements and the double standard- to imagine they were ants and squash them between his fingers.
The judge in our situation was swayed by the psych professionals at the program, who were swayed by my ex. They (program "professionals") labeled my son ODD "based on his father's complaints" and were not interested in hearing my view- I wasn't writing the checks. Had this facility complied with the Interstate Compact, at minimum, my son would have received a psych evaluation prior to placement, designed to determine if the placement was appropriate or necessary. Had the person conducting the "evaluation" been a reasonable human being, and known the restrictions (abuses) of the facility, I feel certain s/he would have determined the placement was too extreme and not in his best interest.
The Ed Con who refered my ex gave him the name of a facility over the phone, never even talked to my son. Knew nothing about him, as I learned in a phone conversation with her.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?mo ... 9&start=10
If they are allowed to refer out-of-state, they should be required to comply with the compact. It's not 'due process' but it's one more stop on the road to incarceration where a teen might encounter a reasonable human being who'll put up a stop sign.
No one in the process once questioned my ex's (or his wife's) unreasonable and irrational behavior and skewed perception. It was easier to sentence my son for the "sins of his father". Not one of them truly interested in what was in my son's best interest. Daddy was writing the checks and everyone down the line had their hand extended and were all too willing to persecute my son based solely on his father's warped accusations.
And in defense of TheRapists. They probably see this shit everyday and try to help kids cop with ignorant parents as best they can. Unfortunately, I don't think they all know what goes on behind the walls of teen warehouse facilities they support. And there are far too few options for teens who are feared or loathed by their parents. Afterall, you can't make a parent be a 'better' parent, although it sounds like WWASP attempts to do this by going through the backdoor- hook them by taking their "trouble making" teen off their hands, then require them to attend seminars. Sounds to me like WWASP may have an equal disdain for the parents.
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2003-12-30 20:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
Most judges know these programs are a better alternative than juvenile jail.
--- End quote ---
No, most judges take it as an article of faith. But there's no basis for that belief.
Look, this nation was founded on the radical concept of rule of law, not of man. The Bill of Rights is not just a brilliant idea echoing the wisdom of centuries of civilization. It's the law.
There's only so much you can do to a minor child. You can demand that they clean their room, not talk to a particular individual or whatever. If they refuse, you can suspend priviledges, take things away, explain the importants (the old lecture torture... mwoohahahaha!) scream, yell, make threats... whatever. But you can't shackel them, drug them, deprive them of sleep, use physical pain and injury and threats of same, denial of contact with the outside world, etc. to force your will on them. If you can't do these things yourself, by our law and tradition, you cannot employ someone to do it for you.
The only means by which you can deprive an American citizen of their liberty, communication, association, religious freedom, etc., is by the legal process. You cannot hire someone to supercede these basic rights.
The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.
--William Safire
--- End quote ---
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2003-12-30 21:29:00, Deborah wrote:
"
I suppose I'm cynical, but I don't think a kid could ever get a fair shake with "due process" if the parent is intent on warehousing them. It's the parent's (and program's) word against the teens. In my case, both perjured themselves.
--- End quote ---
No, of course you're right about this the way things are today. Over 20 years ago, though, the shrinks and schoolpeople of Dade County, Florida ran Art Barker out of the county over some of the same issues you raise. By late 1982, by some means still beyond my comprehension, my parents and Straight, Inc. were able to convince a Florida judge to initiate extradition proceedings against me for the "crime" of being a (17 & 3/4yo) runnaway in the State of Florida. This after a failed kidnapping attempt and a failed attempt at false arrest.
Things have changed. People in authority are a whole lot more inclined to believe that a kid, any kid, is pathological and in need of some kind of radical intervention.
--- Quote ---Afterall, you can't make a parent be a 'better' parent, although it sounds like WWASP attempts to do this by going through the backdoor- hook them by taking their "trouble making" teen off their hands, then require them to attend seminars. Sounds to me like WWASP may have an equal disdain for the parents. "
--- End quote ---
Deb, I think you're dead on correct in this assessment. I'm going to repeat myself again. Why? I'm not sure. Maybe if I keep trying I'll stumble on just the right turn of a phrase or context or whatever to get this accross. Or maybe I'm just wrong and that's why it doesn't resonate. But here goes, one more time.
The worst of the worst villains in all this do not see themselves as such. They truely believe in what they're doing. This is an age old story, as there are no new ones, only minor deviations in the telling. They are zealots. They will do anything in the name of their holy higher purpose. They are no different, in my view, from the people who are lobbing bomb laden virgins at our soldiers and civilians in Iraq and Israel right now. They do not question the cause. To do so would be heresy.
If you're looking for some malevolent bad guy somewhere behind the scenes, cackling madly over how they're getting over on everyone, you'll be looking for a very long time. I haven't many like that in 3 decades of contact with the industry. I have seen plenty of narcissists, megalomaniacs and professional martyrs.
It's hard for me to explain to anyone who hasn't been a part of it. I remember, though, being caught up in the mob mentality, where druggies or anyone accused of not working their program were fair game for any kind of cruelty. If you're a true believer, that's how it goes.
If you're looking for these people to react to situations like fully aware con artists, you'll miscalculate their next move more often than not. That's why it's important.
Still, as ever, my dearest hope for families caught up in these cultish organizations is for all parties to shake it off and, in the end, choose their family over the cult. It happens that way more often than you may think.
But I haven't noticed any reliable way to make that happen. I just hope that it does in every case. More importantly, I want people in general to look and see the destructive influence that the TOUGHLOVE hategroup has had already on our society. Can you even imagine the Goose Creek SWAT raid happening in the `70's? I mean, even at Penn State, at least there was some kind of credible pretense of provocation on the part of the slain kids. But now? Just showing up to school on time and being young and black is, aparently, cause enough to fear someone enough to hold them at gunpoint with trained attack dogs.
See it, people! Please, please SEE it before it's too late to reverse this cancerous influence on our society.
I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves, it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.
--Abraham Lincoln
--- End quote ---
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