Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Apologia - Serious debate only, please!
Deborah:
Why can't you answer yes or no? It's a very simple question.
Anonymous:
Look who's talking,
Why can't you answer a simple no or yes question-
Same to ya-
Are you making allegations of abuse?
Do you have custody?
Deborah:
And now you have left the "debate" this thread was intended for and moved into diversion tactics. I'm going to bed on this note: I feel more qualified than you to determine what constitutes "help" and what is and isn't appropriate treatment of minors. Based on the numerous allegations in W and other programs, I believe a caring parent would err on the side of caution and find resources within their community. We will never agree because you have a vested interest in the continuation of your method of choice and the violation of teens rights and humanity. There's nothing further to debate.
Anonymous:
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/des ... rate.shtml
^explanation of the siminairs; a history lesson
http://www.rockypreps.com/desperate/sit ... ont-pg.htm
^Account of wwasp programs by RockyMt. News
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1 ... ture2.html
hard hitting artical
http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studymind ... lifton.htm
Thought Reform
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brain ... ing19.html
These first articles seem to be from 1998/99. ??
So it's okay to post links for things that are unrelated to wwasp programs, but Deborah wonders why something significant to the process is posted?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every one of these links is directly related to the program.
As for your quibbling about dates; if anything has changed since then, I?d like to know what. From my recent experance, it is still exactly so.
AND, I posted links - not the whole long artical; as you did with the greatful under duress statements. That was just plain rude and a waste of space.
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2004-01-03 23:38:00, Deborah wrote:
"
I'm not trying to get you to say your son was abused. Leave him out of it.
I asked if you'd continue to support the program if the allegations of abuse were proven.
I noticed you couldn't answer the question without suggesting that abuse is an ocassional occurence.
The allegations, which is what we're discussing, do not support that position, but rather indicate that the BM methods employed on a daily basis are abusive. If you aren't interested in discussing the he said/ she said allegations, then why are you in this discussion, except to defend.
If we only looked at the one common factor to all programs, the isolation/ incarceration of teens who are prevented from communicating with the outside world, they would be considered by many to be abusive. I hear that you don't choose to see that as abuse; but rather a consequence to a child for distressing their parent.
You can twist up the words anyway you choose, but your son did not consciously choose to attend a program- unless he asked to be incarcerated. Given the common definition of choose: to select freely and after consideration; which appears to conflict with the program defintion, I seriously doubt that he chose. I'm more inclined to imagine that his behavior troubled you and you chose to incarcerate him until he was making choices that pleased you.
"
--- End quote ---
Deborah - I do believe that Ginger asked that attacks be left out of this thread.
I don't get what you are saying about no contact with the outside world? What program was your child in that he/she didn't have uncensored contact via letters in the beginning? I also get that you did not agree to the admission and I can emphasize with you wanting to have more than written contact, to be more in control. For the majority of parents, however, letters are the only way in the beginning. It is a process to rebuild healthy communication. The letters in a wwasp school are NOT censored. The kids can write anything their hearts desire, whether nice, or not. The family rep also has contact on a weekly basis with the parents. Phone calls follow with your child when it is earned, yes earned, which I agree with, then visits/seminars/off grounds/home passes. I don't consider this process abusive in any way.
I see that another anon said her son chose the program by his behavior. Right on. No, not consciously, but actions have consequences, and that parent obviously loved her child enough to not lose him to the legal system or other destructive options. I see that she/he said her kid was headstrong, doesn't sound like it changed his core personality, just helped him use that quality in a more positive way.
You are assuming way too much - on the negative side. The assumption that a child is admitted because he/she doesn't please the parent is not in the majority, nor do I feel this ANON is a control freak.
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