Here is my take on the subject.

[Carey]

Here is my take Anon:

I have never told a lie, not since this whole thing started.  I have not lied about the $12,500.00.  They have not bought my silence.  I can still sue them and everyone else if I so choose.   All I have ever done is tell about my experience and share it with others.  That is all I will ever continue to do.  Those associated with trekkers are the ones who have lost all creditability.

My family was not only exploited by Dundee but it was exploited by Amberly and Sue Scheff and her Trekkers associates and Steve Bozak.

Don't sit in judgement until you know everything that has occured.

I don't think any "program" that incarcerates kids without due process of law should exist.  Amberly, Trekkers and many others are only trying to move the goods from one program to the next.  I don't agree with that and I will not be a part of that.

You can fault me for taking money from the WWASP attorneys if that is what you choose, but mind you, they were not the ones who exploited me and my family.  My family was expolited by Dundee, Amberly, Bozak and PURE, Inc. (Sue Scheff).  

Amberly is responsible for what happened at Dundee the entire time my boys were there.  She knew I wanted them out.  She did not care.  She did not care or take an interest in any of this until I put here name out on public forums posting her name and stating that she was invovled in the assault and rape cover up.  She would never have come forward had I not been publically blasting her.  Then she comes forward and says "yeah they charge too much, they don't hire qualified people, etc. etc."  I ask her to make a statement for the judge in my court case.  She says no.  But then she gives a statement, that mind you changed for the 3rd time, to Sue Scheff, PURE Inc. who is no different than WWASP.  Why would Amberly be willing to help another corporation, who does the same thing WWASP does but not be willing to help 2 kids who were under her care and who were terrified of going back.  

Is Amberly telling the truth, I don't think so. Not any more.  She has changed the details significantly since she hooked up with PURE.  But you know what, if it turns out that Amberly is telling the truth...then I am going to sue her personally for the care of my kids while in the program and the fear they lived in after leaving the program.

When you have all of the facts, then judge me, but as of right now, you don't.

Carey

[Anonymous]

Carey:

Let's keep this about judging what you did, not necessarily you as a whole.

I know you needed the cash, and that you were taken advantage of (by Sue), and this mess has been emotional.  I also know a person can do something morally wrong and that the person should not be written off forever, just because of that one wrong thing, but here, in this case, it was a Whopper, and part of the price for taking the WWASP money is the critics that will naturally follow.

I'm sure you had reasons for doing this horrible thing, but it was still horrible.  The money is very dirty and was tajen from people in awful pain and confusion (also stupidity, but that's another conversation) when they paid it to WWASP.

I understand your thinking had to be a little more pragmatic and that you wanted to save your house, have a nice Christmas, etc., but where does it stop.

While Frod is anything but gentle, my rabblerousing here, the last couple of days was to raise awareness to the fact that this board can suck.  It's moderator needs to help get everything out on the table without all of the brutlity which seems to go hand-in-hand with saying anything on this board.

I wouldn't presume to give you advice, but I would leave out of your argument to the people angry you took the money, that you had no other choice.  It's not a good argument and it's not true.

[Carey]

I wouldn't presume to give you advice, but I would leave out of your argument to the people angry you took the money, that you had no other choice.

I never said I had no other choice.  I had a couple of choices.  I could have given it to them freely, had I so chose.  I could have let them serve me with a subpoena.  

The money is not tainted...the industry as a whole is.  Afterall, look at Amberly  who was willing to give her sworn statement to to protect Sue and her business...not kids...she chose to protect someone more like herself, someone who profits off of kids.

Let's keep this about judging what you did, not necessarily you as a whole.

You can not separate the two.  I did what I did based on what happened "as a whole."  I saw people, not innocent people but guilty people, pointing the finger at another group all the while engaging in the same behavior.  

[ This Message was edited by: Carey on 2003-12-16 08:16 ]

[Anonymous]

Surely one of these is applicable here:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

[Anonymous]

On 2003-12-16 08:12:00, Carey wrote:

"

I wouldn't presume to give you advice, but I would leave out of your argument to the people angry you took the money, that you had no other choice.

I never said I had no other choice.  I had a couple of choices.  I could have given it to them freely, had I so chose.  I could have let them serve me with a subpoena.  



The money is not tainted...the industry as a whole is.  Afterall, look at Amberly  who was willing to give her sworn statement to to protect Sue and her business...not kids...she chose to protect someone more like herself, someone who profits off of kids.



"

Two wrongs make a right Carey?  C'mon, I know you don't mean that.  Of course, anyone else who is doing this is wrong too.  It's Ok that you're at peace with this, but do you for one second expect anyone, except Ginger who has been somewhat sympathetic, to say what you did helps anyone but you and WWASP?

[Cayo Hueso]

I do have to ask...what WAS the reason for taking the money.  I'm seriously asking to try and understand this.

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
-- Anonymous

[Carey]

I don't think what I did was wrong.  Not at all.  I think what I did was right...totally right.  I think everyone has a right to know what has happened exactly as it happened.  I think somewhere in the middle lies the truth and I think the only way to get at the truth is to tell all one knows.

[Anonymous]

what WAS the reason for taking the money. I'm seriously asking to try and understand this

That is a very good question, cayohueso. You will get different stories as to why. Warning: This shit gets MURKY.

[Cayo Hueso]

On 2003-12-16 08:22:00, Carey wrote:

"I don't think what I did was wrong.  Not at all.  I think what I did was right...totally right.  I think everyone has a right to know what has happened exactly as it happened.  I think somewhere in the middle lies the truth and I think the only way to get at the truth is to tell all one knows.  "

What was the reason for WWASP attys asking for the info and what was your reason for giving it AND the reason for the $$ acceptance?  I'm NOT trying to start or prolong anything...I am sincerely trying to understand.

The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.


--H.L. Mencken

[Anonymous]

Carey,

You say you do not lie? That is a lie.

You were not exploited by the trekkers.
You particiapted by choice. We did not exploit you.

Your anger should be toward your ex. He enrolled the twinsinto a WWASP facility..
Your anger is misdirected.
How convienient.

Be accountable for YOUR choice of actions. Quit trying to BLAME others for your problems. It does'nt fly with those who know the truth.

What you chose to do with our emails was inexcuseable.

There may be people who sap up and feel that you had no other choice. We know differently.

Get over the the blame game.It's a bad joke.  Hypocrisy smells bad.

Blame Blame blame!  Give me a break.

Carey, you are an official WWASPIE forever and always.

I hope you feel proud of yourself.

[Anonymous]

Carey, you took money from people who torture children and take advantage of parents who see themselves as desperate.  Selling your emails to WWASP gave WWASP a potential cause of action against all of the people that spoke in an adverse way about WWASP, when they thought they were in a safe harbour.  How could you possibly think any of that is right?

People, good people, would have taken the position "serve me with your subpoena and I will fight it".  Cooperation with the devil, even under threat, is not justified.

[Carey]

I do have to ask...what WAS the reason for taking the money. I'm seriously asking to try and understand this.

It cost me roughly between $25,000 and $30,000 to remove my boys from Dundee.  Part of the cost was tuition for Dundee that the judge in my court case imposed on me as a result of the boys removal without going through the proper channels (through her that is).  She thought the boys should stay there.   The other cost was as a result of legal fees and the actual trip to Dundee.  I figure I should not be responsible for any of it.  I never wanted any part of this industry...however, those who claimed to have helped me do.

[Cayo Hueso]

OK, fair enough if that's how you feel.  I don't agree.  I wouldn't have taken the money knowing where it came from even if I did feel that I was owed...I agree, you shouldn't have had to be responsible for that money you laid out, but THAT wouldn't have been my way of recovering funds.  I also think though, that other people would have been able to at least tolerate this if you would concede that MAYBE, at the VERY LEAST, it looks kind of bad and sends a very contradictory message to people who have been subjected to the abuse in those programs.  I understand that you don't feel that you did anything wrong and that WWASP COULD have gotten the info in other ways, but they didn't...they got it from you and paid you for it and that makes quite a few of us "survivors" angry.

I'm not judging, just an explanation as to why people seem to be so upset over this.  

A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.
http://memory.loc.gov/const/fed/fed_46.html' target='_new'>James Madison, The Federalist No. 46

[Anonymous]

So, you couldn't get your money back thorugh legal channels and that justifies doing it behind the scenes and hurting others.  Sounds like you had bad legal counsel and bad emoitonal support.  But, in all honesty, you should have had some innate feeling guiding you not to do what you did.

[Anonymous]

Carey,

Your statement "Ameberly gave her statenent to protect Sue" is FALSE.

Amberly gave her statement to Pani when the Costa Rican Gov came into the situation. It was then safe for her to do so. Sue had nothing to do with it. Sue Flowers maybe.

You're trying to simplfy the truth by creating false insinuations wont stand up in court.

It didnt last week under oath..

To say Trekkers goal was to put kids in other Schools programs is a LIE.
Quit tellng lies.