General Interest > Feed Your Head
What Are You Looking At?
ajax13:
--- Quote from: "Xelebes" ---
--- Quote from: "ajax13" ---Since I am familiar with the Seed/Straight/Kids stream, I do not find it confusing. You on the other hand, are not familiar with this subject, and yet you are making statements about the subject, rather than asking questions about it.
--- End quote ---
That's great. The research I'm trying to do is figure out where the experiments began and when they forked off. I'm also leading my research into the Canadian Residential and the American Indian schools and how did they factor in the development. I can say with a couple interviews I've had with the natives, the conditions of the schools was (may have been) not as egregious in the 70s as they were being wound down as they were in the period 1930-1965.
Synanon's experiment - the demonstration of efficacy. That's all it had to do. Psychiatrists and psychologists walked in, offered tips and hints, leading Dederich to refine the "Game." That was the experimentation as far as it went. That's all it had to do. The Seed didn't even have that - although I think DuPont did visit and did give his grace, or at least jumped in as a consultant with Straight. I don't know how much advice was given but from what I can discern of the financial documents, it was a skinflint operation that may have padded the wallets of Baker somewhat, unlike what Sembler, Newton and Vause could do. This fact might suggest that it was an experiment, but I find it an unsatisfactory hypothesis.
--- End quote ---
The fact that the Seed was a "skinflint operation" suggests that it was an experiment? You think DuPont did visit, but you don't know, but you're still going to say that psychiatrists and psychologists who walked into Synanon and offered tips and hints to Chuck Dederich constituted "the experimentation as far as it went"? The Seed received close to $2 million in the early seventies. You've had a couple interviews with the natives, so you figure it's accurate for you to say that the conditions of the residential schools "may have been not as egregious in the 70s"?
none-ya:
Having suvived the seed,and from what I've learned since finding fornits, I believe the abuses were turned up a notch with each new program. Straight was worse than the seed. Kids was worse than straight ect...
And the seed WAS a skinflint outfit. They didn't pay for anything. It was all donated,or paid for by the state. From the rent on the morgan yact building to the peanut butter sandwiches(which my parents made about 500). All pure profit. No overhead.
Xelebes:
--- Quote from: "none-ya" ---Having suvived the seed,and from what I've learned since finding fornits, I believe the abuses were turned up a notch with each new program. Straight was worse than the seed. Kids was worse than straight ect...
--- End quote ---
Yes, but does it follow that because it got worse each iteration, that they were experiments. Look at WWASP - it is probably the most horrid of them all. Was that an experiment?
none-ya:
The seed was nothing but human warehousing. For as long and as cheaply as possible.
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "Xelebes" ---
--- Quote from: "none-ya" ---Having suvived the seed,and from what I've learned since finding fornits, I believe the abuses were turned up a notch with each new program. Straight was worse than the seed. Kids was worse than straight ect...
--- End quote ---
Yes, but does it follow that because it got worse each iteration, that they were experiments. Look at WWASP - it is probably the most horrid of them all. Was that an experiment?
--- End quote ---
No!! It does not follow that there were any experiments, studies or monitored Doctor of Psychology visits worth a hoot. I don't believe any of these programs were looking to be studied or wanted a team of professionals to do any experiments.
Men like Joe Ricci and Art Barker were selfish ego maniacs who believed they were onto a money making scheme. I really believe it is and was that simple. They honed their craft from the streets and jails experiences.
These men were con artist elite, who could get professionals to do what they wanted. Art and Joe needed what in order to establish their mini empires? A legit partner. Joe got Dr.Davidson as a co-owner, several states to supply kids and throw in Dr. Marvin Schwartz from Illinois to help with the rich kids and well you know the rest. Art Barker figured out how to manipulate the state ad federal agencies for funds.
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