Author Topic: A Christenning!!!!!!!!  (Read 3607 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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A Christenning!!!!!!!!
« on: November 18, 2003, 06:15:00 PM »
:smile:  First Post to Daytop Village Forum  :smile:


The Problem with Daytop....

is that is sucked.  :grin:

That, and that it still sucks today.  These people and their system have spread like mad throughout society.  They are considerred the great benefactors of society, and all they do is hurt people.  

Many people went there, way back in the day, and to the residentail ones.. These are the people who have the truly horrific stories to tell.


Me.. I went there, in 94, to a residentail one, and still the seeds were evident.  Poeple went in there happy, and days later were no longer.


YOu could feel it as you walked through the halls.. It was the feeling of death.. It was the feeling of accepting death.. being okay with it.


Every person's goal died in there, cause there was always a reason, that any even slightly self-assertive thing that someone did, was in violation of their forced goal of sobriety.

I can go on forever.. and I will soon  :grin:

In addition to my new posts, I will also copy many of my posts from another section of those board.  


Peace,
Paul St. John

PS I can t wait for other Daytopians to find this board.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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A Christenning!!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2004, 07:36:00 PM »
Hello Paul,

I assume you are a Daytop graduate. I have a friend that has been in for about 3 months now. I have very little contact with him. But, what contact I have he describes a VERY crazy situation. Can you tell me what goes on in Daytop on a daily basis? I thought that a Therapeutic community would be a warm, caring place. That it would give these men and women good therapy and compassion. What little I've heard from my friend is absolutely insane. It sounds like they go out of their way to make every person as uncomfortable as possible. What possible purpose could that serve. These are all people that have been suffering in one way or another all their lives. This can hardly be what they need. I've been writing to my friend about once per week. I write about mudane, everyday stuff. My friend told me that his counselor screams at him about my letters. He hasn't been able to explain that. What could it mean. However you could enlighten me as to what my friend is going through would be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2004, 05:38:00 PM »
The problem with Daytop and other traditional TC's is that they stick to the outdated idea that addicts are not human beings-- and thus that they must be "broken down" in order to be re-formatted.

Such treatment was typical of mental illness "care"-- in the 1700's.  Unfortunately, it was re-discovered by Synanon in the late 50's and has been inflicted on addicts and young people for  the last five decades.

Research evidence does not support the use of confrontation or humiliation.  Unlike Daytop, Phoenix House has acknowledged this and is *trying* to stamp that stuff out (but it's hard because it's like fraternity initiations-- if it was done to you, you want to do it to the next guy and many staff are former pts who had it done). If your friend is not court-mandated, I suggest you get him to leave and to apply for an outpatient program based on cognitive-behavior therapy or "motivational interviewing."  Academic institutions studying treatment are often the best source of evidence-based and compassionate treatment.  there is no evidence that inpt is any more effective than outpt unless the person has been homeless for years.

Sadly, community based treatment is still infected with the "TC" model.  For more info on how to find decent addiction treatment (and pardon self promotion), you might want to read my book "Recovery Options:  The Complete Guide."

--Maia Szalavitz
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2004, 07:05:00 PM »
Maia,

Thank you very much for your response. Is there any professional psycological body that I could refer to to find papers condemning or condoning this type of treatment? I'd like to get more information in general also. How do I get your book?

My friend is a 48 year old PHD in clinical psycology, who lost his practice, his money, his life through a lifelong addiction problem, which over the last several years turned into a crack addiction. After all the money was gone, he began selling crack to high end customers for one guy in Manhattan. He was arrested after 3 months with a large amount of crack. He had sold to an undercover cop three times. That was three months after he began selling the crack. I hadn't seen him in about 8 years, but I understand at that point he was an end stage addict and probably close to death. After his arrest (three felonies in a state with the draconian Rockefeller drug laws) he was looking at 8 to 15 years. His father (a wealthy, retired lawyer) put up a considerable sum of money to get him into the treatment program instead of prison. The logic was that an affluent,educated white Jewish guy was not going to have a good time of it in prison. Well, he ended up getting the mandated treatment, for 6 months in residence and a couple of years of aftercare. Over the year and a half of postponements since his arrest, he had immersed himself in the AA, NA communtiy and had earned his one year coin. He was very motivated and energized by the meetings and the communtiy aspect. We renewed contact and I gave him a job selling organic vegetables on Saturday at my farm stand in a Greenmarket in the Village. He positively thrived doing that, speaking to people and learning about the organic farming I do in Upstate New York. When he finally got the treatment, he, his family and friends considered it a great victory. He would avoid a prison term and get real help. Well, the scarce contact I've had with him (His mother, father and myself all share his letters) has been positively frightening. It is difficult to even begin to understand the nature of this so-called treatment. Things like people getting "shot-down" and carrying around an empty dry-cleaning suit bag. Or the daily confrontations which are meant to be sadistic. My friend informed me that his counselor SCREAMS at him because I write to him once a week. I now write every 10 days. It all sounds so insane, that I MUST make some sense of it. I find it extremely odd that there is no explaination of this type of treatment anywhere easily accessable. I've tried google searches etc. This is the first real thing I've found.

Sorry to ramble on. I'm so disturbed by this. Thank you for your time and help,
Sincerely,
Jessica
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2004, 01:00:00 AM »
I too had a loved one enter the program. I went to their family meetings as I was ordered to. I asked questions as was suggested, but soon found that was not appropriate and in fact, got treated terribly. Simple questions caused enormous stir, not only in my own little groups but also had repercussions at the facility.

Many people will not actually speak of the details of what goes on in that place, survivors guilt, fear, bringing it all back, embarassment ... much like you'll find people and their reluctance to speak after leaving scientology. so research is a good place. Try google as a place, and search the alt directories. Then combine the search with Cult.

And try like hell to get your loved one out of there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Paul St. John

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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2004, 12:10:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-02-19 16:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hello Paul,



I assume you are a Daytop graduate. I have a friend that has been in for about 3 months now. I have very little contact with him. But, what contact I have he describes a VERY crazy situation. Can you tell me what goes on in Daytop on a daily basis? I thought that a Therapeutic community would be a warm, caring place.


Yeah.. one would thin.. right? :smile:

 That it would give these men and women good therapy and compassion.

I know.. I am with ya.  

 What little I've heard from my friend is absolutely insane. It sounds like they go out of their way to make every person as uncomfortable as possible.

One of their twelve commandments is to deal with your uncomfortable areas. They can some times take this to an extreme.  You see I agree with their idea that it is good to do that.

But if you think of a plant, it grows stronger and with time can handle more adeverdsarial conditions.

Their way is kinda like just going up tp the comfortable plant, and bending it into say oil, because in their minds, it should already be able to handle oil.  Thre plant suffers as a result.
It is still sad to me that this is done to children.  They have no sanctuary from it as the world is organised for them.  My feelings are somewhat strong still about this.. I see it as slow murder, although humans are strong and most will survive.  Long term it can be turn3ed into an advantage is my thought.  It is human spirit that gets us through this, and if your friend has that. well then "HELL YEAH!" :smile:



 What possible purpose could that serve. These are all people that have been suffering in one way or another all their lives. This can hardly be what they need.

It's the simplest logic in the world, and I wholeheartedly agree.

I've been writing to my friend about once per week. I write about mudane, everyday stuff. My friend told me that his counselor screams at him about my letters. He hasn't been able to explain that. What could it mean.

 It most likely does not matter wahtr you write.  Anything that is familiar to them or looks like a light in the tunnel will be scorned.

 


However you could enlighten me as to what my friend is going through would be greatly appreciated.

< B> I hope what I have written satisfies.  Sorry, nothing much positive there, but on the light side, I have been through it, and I have another friend who hgas as well, and we are fine, and rocking.. It s kinda just like a part of us now.  :smile:

Paul St. John



"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2006, 06:18:00 PM »
I have first hand experience of what occurs at Daytop. It is an incredibly disorganized, dehumanizing, inconsistant, waste. These children will come out of the other end of treatment with three things.

1. Substitutes for their addictive behaviors that border on OCD's like the adult ex-addicts that are in charge.

2. New gang contacts/criminal information to use in the streets.

3. Learn that if they become snitches they will get what they want.

But at least they'll have a GED to show for it!
They enter thinking they are going to be there for  2-4 months, but that is NEVER true. They always find a way to make them stay until the program is completed or at least 6-9 months. And why would anyone mix 14 year old boys and 20 year year old men in the same schools/dorms?

A Former Daytop Employee With No History of Drugs/Treatmnet.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2006, 03:57:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-20 16:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Maia,



Thank you very much for your response. Is there any professional psycological body that I could refer to to find papers condemning or condoning this type of treatment? I'd like to get more information in general also. How do I get your book?



My friend is a 48 year old PHD in clinical psycology, who lost his practice, his money, his life through a lifelong addiction problem, which over the last several years turned into a crack addiction. After all the money was gone, he began selling crack to high end customers for one guy in Manhattan. He was arrested after 3 months with a large amount of crack. He had sold to an undercover cop three times. That was three months after he began selling the crack. I hadn't seen him in about 8 years, but I understand at that point he was an end stage addict and probably close to death. After his arrest (three felonies in a state with the draconian Rockefeller drug laws) he was looking at 8 to 15 years. His father (a wealthy, retired lawyer) put up a considerable sum of money to get him into the treatment program instead of prison. The logic was that an affluent,educated white Jewish guy was not going to have a good time of it in prison. Well, he ended up getting the mandated treatment, for 6 months in residence and a couple of years of aftercare. Over the year and a half of postponements since his arrest, he had immersed himself in the AA, NA communtiy and had earned his one year coin. He was very motivated and energized by the meetings and the communtiy aspect. We renewed contact and I gave him a job selling organic vegetables on Saturday at my farm stand in a Greenmarket in the Village. He positively thrived doing that, speaking to people and learning about the organic farming I do in Upstate New York. When he finally got the treatment, he, his family and friends considered it a great victory. He would avoid a prison term and get real help. Well, the scarce contact I've had with him (His mother, father and myself all share his letters) has been positively frightening. It is difficult to even begin to understand the nature of this so-called treatment. Things like people getting "shot-down" and carrying around an empty dry-cleaning suit bag. Or the daily confrontations which are meant to be sadistic. My friend informed me that his counselor SCREAMS at him because I write to him once a week. I now write every 10 days. It all sounds so insane, that I MUST make some sense of it. I find it extremely odd that there is no explaination of this type of treatment anywhere easily accessable. I've tried google searches etc. This is the first real thing I've found.



Sorry to ramble on. I'm so disturbed by this. Thank you for your time and help,

Sincerely,

Jessica"

I wonder how much whining he'd be doing if he was sent to prison where he belongs? Might sound rude but I find it a little disturbing that a doctor gets treatment while some poor schmuck has to do his time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2006, 09:11:00 AM »
I know a Counselor working for Daytop and I often wonder how he's still employed there.  He gets drunk and fights in bars like a hoodlum and tells all of Daytop business.  They even have a Counselor working there that was once a Nurse and stole drugs from her workplace and to top it off, she has a felony for possession.  Daytop Village is just a haven for the welfare and the impoverished.  The only treatment they get is a bug ridden cot, $60.00 every two weeks and rotten food and they actually thinking they are rehabing people back into society.  How can criminals turn criminals into model citizens. Most of the Counselors working there only have a GED. Hell, I heard that one of the Directors was a prostitute!!!
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Offline odie

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A Christenning!!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2006, 11:22:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-04-15 06:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I know a Counselor working for Daytop and I often wonder how he's still employed there.  He gets drunk and fights in bars like a hoodlum and tells all of Daytop business.  They even have a Counselor working there that was once a Nurse and stole drugs from her workplace and to top it off, she has a felony for possession.  Daytop Village is just a haven for the welfare and the impoverished.  The only treatment they get is a bug ridden cot, $60.00 every two weeks and rotten food and they actually thinking they are rehabing people back into society.  How can criminals turn criminals into model citizens. Most of the Counselors working there only have a GED. Hell, I heard that one of the Directors was a prostitute!!!"

Wow let me see where I can start with this one. Would you rather be treated by some " Masters" level therapist who doesn't have a clue what a craving feels like? Or someone that knows exactly how you feel? And like I've said before in this forum, people change...what difference does it make what a person was involved in before treatment? Now as far as that counselor being drunk and fighting in bars talking about clients that is a whole different matter. Contact the New York State Office of Alcohol and Substance Abuse Services at 1-800-553-5790 to report this unethical behavior.

What kind of humanism expresses its reluctance to sacrifice military casualties by devastating the civilian economy of its adversary for decades to come?  
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684855674/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> Henry Kissinger

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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