This must be the I failed at Elan site....

[Chrysta]

I love how as soon as a REAL topic is brought up, the topic is brought back to "Marty fucking buffalo."

I couldn't agree more with the person who posted the most recent, intelligent topic. I am also glad to see that some of the folks from the 80s haven't dedicated the rest of their lives to whining about their abuse suffered in Elan.

I was in Elan in the early 90's for almost 3 years, I was pulled out by the state of Ct 3 months after my 18th birthday. It wasn't important to them that I finished what I started. They were more concerned with the amount of $ they were shelling out to Elan and also to provide me with my own apartment in CT.

I DIDNT enjoy my time in Elan, but I believe that it was 3 years well spent. I credit a lot of my current successes to the changes that I was put through- by the staff, the students, and most importantly by myself!!

I am one that speaks highly of Elan and any other place like it that aides in helping save lives of uncontrollable, out-of-control teens just as I was.

Just wanted to say how nice it is to see someone out there with half a brain embrace a "not-so-nice" experience and move on without placing blame on some place you were because you put yourself there.

As for the "hi-yuh......."  Its really fucking old, dude!!!

[ShyGirl]

Maybe a study should be conducted to see if these TCs are effective at all.  Everyone I know who graduated Elan (roughly 20 students) fell flat on their faces within months of their graduation.  Most are doing fine now, but I believe this is a result of growing up (we?re talking 10-15 years later), NOT a result of the wonderful therapy they received while in Elan.  

I do believe that dangerous people should be kept off our streets.  Anyone who rapes an 8-year-old should be tried for his crime and perhaps sent to prison.  I don?t believe that a teenager who talks back to their parents should be ?put behind bars? for 3 years.  Since when is being an oppositional teenager a crime worthy of imprisonment?  In Elan, you had some kids who were sent by the state because they had committed crimes and it was Elan or prison.  In Elan, there were many many other students, especially the girls, who were sent there because their rich parents were tired of not being listened to and being disrespected and Elan was the place where they could dispose of their child for several years.   Why don?t the children of the rich parents have a right to a lawyer and trial?  Because no jury would convict them.  On my 14th birthday my parents took me to court to get a ?divorce? from me.  They were laughed out of the courtroom.  So what did they do?they sent me to Elan.  

So, what can we do instead?

Well, I?ll tell you what I?m doing.  There was this 13-year-old girl who was cursing her parents, dropped out of school, smoking pot, and dressing slutty.  Her parents wanted to send her away before things escalated.  I stepped forward and took her into my house.  I live far away from her home so she is away from her ?bad friends?  and I am pleased to say she is doing great.  She?s back in school, no drugs, talking with respect, etc. I did this just by providing a loving environment for her away from the bad elements that she familiarized herself with.  She (like most of us) was a sweet girl underneath a very rough exterior.  I didn?t put her in the corner; I didn?t scream or spit in her face; I didn?t put her in a boxing ring; I didn?t tell her how worthless she is.  I am just trying to help her figure out who she is and do so in a nondestructive manner.

[Chrysta]

Good for you, and I mean that with out ANY sarcasm at all. I did the same thing with my brother and it worked. I was fresh out of ELan @ 18 years old and he was 12. I took him in for the next 5 years and gave him a foundation to start his life from.
Some people need exactly the opportunity that you and I both gave and some people need a little more. Elan was the place that I NEEDED! I wasn't there for any crimes, but nonetheless, I was OUT OF CONTROL. There wasnt any person out there who was able to give me what I needed. I needed a loving environment with hard structure, accountability, therapy, relationships, and a place that wasn't going to kick me out with thte first sign of my disruptive behavior. For me- Elan was my only hope!!!

I thank god for the opportunity Elan gave me and the great relationships I made while I was there; Clare, Jenn H., Marc, Marian, Shalonda, Janine, Jeff, Alicia G., Emily, Lindsey, RPA, Jamie U...and even the newer residents that taught me so much; Steve T., Jeremy F., Ellie, Jenn F., and so many more. I hope every one is doing well.

[ShyGirl]

On 2005-07-18 10:29:00, Chrysta wrote:

" I needed a loving environment with hard structure, accountability, therapy, relationships,"

Are we still talking about elan here?  Because this does not sound like the Elan I went to.  Sounds like you were in Elan 3, Maybe things were different in 7.

[Chrysta]

actually, proud to say I was in Elan 8 when Clare was the director. I know that we had a different experience in our house then you guys did in Elan 7. I never envied you guys. E7 was refered to as the robot house, E3 was refered to as the corrupt house, and E8 was refered to as the most family oriented house. I always felt that the staff always wanted the best for me (I have to speak for myself here.)

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-10 20:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

Whats your answer Ginger? What is your fucking solution. Should we all send our fucked up kids to YOUR house?

Ill bet my left eye if you had the money you would be the first to open a TC for kids thinking you would protect them from other TC and then painfully discover you cannot do a thing for them either without incorporating forcable control!

First, you'd lose that bet. Second, if your nephew actually did rape an 8yo little girl, he belongs in prison. If you send him to Elan, he'll likely move on up the chain and have authority over other children. And I'd bet my left eye they don't go out of their way to let the other kids' parents know how that all works. I have a problem with that! Would you want this kid working as nightman watching over your potty-mouthed 13yo son all night? I wouldn't.

Third, I readily and repeatedly acknowledge that there's a double standard. It's one of the major problems w/ the industry. There are good reasons why it's illegal to physically and emotionally abuse your kids. Sending them to strangers to do it for you doesn't make it any better. It only gives you the benefit of not having to deal w/ the messy details first-hand. It's still wrong and illegal and nearly always does more harm than good.

Fourth, the alternative is pretty easy to understand if you turn off the idiot box and crack a book once in awhile. Teenagers rebel against the way we're treating them these days because we're treating them inapropriately for their age. They're not little children; they're young adults. Down through history, people have been considered more-or-less adults at around the age of 15. The way we're doing it now, they can't do anything important till the magical age of 18, when we then expect them to suddenly and magically become adults.

I don't expect to control my 15yo daughter's every move and thought. I expect her to handle herself well enough by now. And, for the most part, she does. When she slips up, she's got a whole family to help straighten her out. When she doesn't slip up (which is most of the time) she gets the respect and trust she deserves. It may sound crazy as hell to anyone who's been swollowing all the psychobabal and fear mongering for most of your adult life. But it actually works. Kids don't grow up to be what you tell them you want them to be. Kids grow up to be what you tell them they are.

Finally, I've never been anything but straightforward about the purpose of this site. As for programs shut down, well I understand that the ppl who shut down the Brown Schools made contact w/ each other through this site. Look at how WWASPS is being marginalized even by their own industry. Every revolution eats its own children first, I guess. But I think this has happened largely because of this site as well as dozens of others very like it that have sprung up over the years.

Just look at how these groups work. Every last one of them incorporates strict controls on free communication in order to control the group. Take that away and things fall apart.

Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1888952229/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>- Patrick Henry

[Pete]

I agree with you, Chrysta, on that point.  Most (not all) of the E-8 staff wanted the best for us (possible exceptions are Jenn E. and Jenn C.)  If there was one staff who dispensed the most responsible therapy, it was Marian.  I liked Marc and Clare, but I disagree with them on significant issues.  But they all wanted the best for us and are good people, in my opinion.  

As for the Elan 7 kids, I am filled with pity.  That house was AWFUL!  Tania Merette makes me sick.  Both of Elan's senior directors (Tania and Marty) should be fired.

[Pete]

Fourth, the alternative is pretty easy to understand if you turn off the idiot box and crack a book once in awhile. Teenagers rebel against the way we're treating them these days because we're treating them inapropriately for their age. They're not little children;
they're young adults. Down through history, people have been considered more-or-less adults at around the age of 15. The way we're doing it now, they can't do anything important till the magical age of 18, when we then expect them to suddenly and magically become adults.

Ginger, you hit the nail on the head.  I never thought of it that way.  That paragraph alone, I think, will help me be a better parent when I have kids.

[Antigen]

Thanks, Pete. Check out just about anything by John Taylor Gatto, too. You can read his latest online for free @ http://johntaylorgatto.com/ It'll give you some valuable insight into what goes on in regular public and accredited private schools and, hopefully, help you to properly support and understand your kids as they deal w/ it.

The clergy know that I know that they know that they do not know.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

[ShyGirl]

On 2005-07-18 11:02:00, Pete wrote:

"As for the Elan 7 kids, I am filled with pity.  That house was AWFUL!  Tania Merette makes me sick.  Both of Elan's senior directors (Tania and Marty) should be fired."

Finally a little compassion for what us 7ers had to go through.

[Pete]

That guy is interesting, Ginger.  I am going to online college right now -- scheduled to graduate next year.  For the most part, it is a complete waste of time.  I feel like I'm just doing time so I can get a piece of paper that seems to impress employers.  I already make pretty good money, but I've been told that somewhere down the line, dropping out could bite me in the ass.  So I plod through it.  Less than a year to go!

[Pete]

On 2005-07-18 13:54:00, ShyGirl wrote:

"

On 2005-07-18 11:02:00, Pete wrote:


"As for the Elan 7 kids, I am filled with pity.  That house was AWFUL!  Tania Merette makes me sick.  Both of Elan's senior directors (Tania and Marty) should be fired."

Finally a little compassion for what us 7ers had to go through.
"

No problem.  Elan 7 seemed like a jail.  I'm sorry you had to experience it.  And that "mighty, mighty Bucs" cheer!   I still hear that cheer in my head sometimes.

Wanna hear a funny story?  When we used to watch the Elan 7 cross-country people run, we used to mimic them by talking like Soviets in those bad '80s movies.[ This Message was edited by: Pete on 2005-07-18 14:21 ]

[ShyGirl]

Hmmmmm....

Everyone's Elan experience was so unique.  I guess that's why some of us shout abuse while others claim, "They saved my life."

Aside from my being in the worst house, I remember I used to wish I was older.  I was only 14 when I went to Elan.  The staff treated me like such crap.  I remember the older students being treated so much better.  Especially the 17-year-olds.  The staff was always so nice to them.  I guess they didn't want them to sign out when they turned 18.  Most of them did anyway.

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-18 17:06:00, ShyGirl wrote:

Everyone's Elan experience was so unique. I guess that's why some of us shout abuse while others claim, "They saved my life."

Same exact line w/ all of these programs. I think it's telling. If you ask 50 ppl who attended the same concert, some will tell you it was great, others will not be happy. But everyone will usually agree on whether or not it rained, who performed and what kind of crowd showed up. Not so w/ the programs. People have such starkly different perceptions of the exact same incidents. Why is that? What could possibly explain how one kid wittnessed another violently attacking someone and then getting gently, properly restrained while another kid standing in the same room saw a kid get his ass kicked for some trivial think like rolling his eyes?

Never underestimate the power of the status quo...America's schools are part of government, subject to public whim and will.  By and large, we have the kind of schools that people want. While they acknowledge the need for improvement, in other people's schools, most American are reasonably content with their own.
--Former public school superintendent Ronald J. Perry, 1992.

[ShyGirl]

What could possibly explain how one kid wittnessed another violently attacking someone and then getting gently, properly restrained while another kid standing in the same room saw a kid get his ass kicked for some trivial think like rolling his eyes?

I don't know.  What I do know is that I remember a little boy named Clyde.  I think he was 12 but looked about 8.  He used to wet his bed and he got beat up in the ring for that several times.  Anyone remember anything differently?  Anyone remember him deserving that?  Anyone remember this being productive therapy? Anyone remember this "saving his life?"