Possible law?

[Anonymous]

What about a law that says that any child placed in a boarding school has the right to choose to live with any "fit" adult who consents to have them in their home, and to attend the local schools there, instead of the boarding school.

Basically, I'm thinking of a reform of custody laws to define the essence of custody of a minor as a willingness to have that minor living with you in your home.  I'm also thinking that the best place for a child is in a real family home with real on-the-spot adult guardians.

I know Straight farmed the kids out to host families, and that's a potential problem.  I think the solution is that where the kid's own parents won't have the kid in their home, out of all of the "fit" adults who apply to the court and want the kid in their home, it should be the kid's choice which home he/she lives in.

I suppose the things that should give other adults standing to bring suit on behalf of the kid should be placement of the kid in a boarding facility for more than a month, OR credible allegations of abuse of the kid OR credible allegations of interference with the mail of the kid (other than for less than a month at the direction of a licensed psychiatrist with a doctor/patient relationship with the kid) OR a runaway attempt by the kid OR transfer of the kid from the guardian family he/she chose to somewhere else for more than a month OR request by the kid for a review by the court.

You want some kind of requirement for a triggering event, so you don't have a lawsuit every other week about the same kid.

How many kids would be in these places if a neighbor family, or their other relatives, or their parents' friends, legally could offer to take them in instead and the kid legally could take them up on it?

I know at least half a dozen stable, "fit" families who would be willing to take in a particular kid I know of who is in one of these places for no good reason.

Why should a kid have to be in an institution when there are fit adults, parents of other kids, or other fit family members, who are willing to take on guardianship of the kid, and send him to local schools, when the kid WANTS to go with those other adults?

Would that kind of fix have helped you, Ginger?  Would it allay some of your concerns about government involvement?

[Anonymous]

In Michigan, any child who has reached the age of 14 can consent to a guardianship.  You fill out the application, file it with the court, and get your hearing date.  Simple.

I think that a parent of a troubled child probably has a real concern about the child having problems at another person's house the same way they did at home.  Only the new person doesn't know the child well enough to know the lies, games, and head him/her off at the pass!  it all depends on what the situation was at home.  sometimes kids' behavior is much different in a different environment.  

My son lives with my mother and her husband.  They are both retired/off work.  Their life's mission is for my son to succeed (graduate highschool!).  He doesnt cut school there, he cant crawl back in bead after mom leaves, no not there.  he doesn't talk to my mom the way he talks to me b/c her husband wont allow it, he wouldn't dare punch holes in her wall, her husband said he'd put his head thro the wall if he dared do that.  Remarkably, he has only missed one day of school this year and has brought up all failing grades to all passing grades.  He loves and respects my mom and her husband, therefore, they get results.  Their (consistency) discipline,love, attention is 24/7.  It was a Godsend for me.  Others are not so lucky, but i'm a believer that children act differently in a different environment.  I did the best i could to raise him by myself AND pay bills, put food on the table, etc., ran him to soccer practices/games for 10 YEARS, gave him just about whatever he wanted.  What did I get:  disrespected, my house destroyed, arguements EVERY NIGHT.
  I wasn't good enuf but i'm not having a pity party for myself.  I'm happy he is finally "getting it".  the outcome is the important thing.  We are keeping our eyes on the goal.  One day he will realize he had it good at home, and probably feel guilty about how he treated me, if he doesn't already.  Until then, we are all holding our breath, waiting and hoping . . .

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-02 09:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Would that kind of fix have helped you, Ginger? Would it allay some of your concerns about government involvement"

Probably not. Here's the thing. I know now that I had people pulling for me, but they never spoke up.

If I'd known how my aunt felt about the whole thing, for example, I would certainly have dropped in on her instead of my sister when I was looking for a place to land. But nobody wants to draw the wrath of a fanatic so I just didn't know.

If there were such a law (and I think, in the case of a 16yo, that's pretty much standard policy for family courts. See Mitchell vs. Mitchell) they'd only work around them by presenting program parents as alternates and smearing the ones the kid wanted to live with.

Any language you can put into law can be interpreted in a number of ways. Take the Baker Act, for instance. Straight interpreted that to mean that they could carry out a 48 hr interrogation to get the kid to break down and sign themselves in while working their program friendly contacts in the juvenile justice, school and law enforcement to try and make a court order happen.

One of the times I split, though, someone suggested that I go to a halfway house and see if they could help me figure out what to do next. When I got there, they told me about the way they interpret the Baker Act in Ohio. They interviewed me, asked me why I was a runnaway, gave me the riot act on house rules (No problem for me at all, just no violence, no drugs... behave like a civilized human) and told me I could stay for 48 hours, eat, shower, sleep and figure out what to do next before they would be required by law to report my presence there.

At the end of it, I decided (again!) to go see my sister, hoping she'd take my side this time if I told her how bad it was for me in Straight. (Doh!) But there was another option that some kids took who really had no decent choices. There was another halfway house on the other side of town. Every two days, they'd just pack their stuff and take up residence for another 48 hours at the other place.

I really don't think this problem is going to be solved by more laws. The debate involved in pushing for the laws, though, might be extremely effective because it will bring factual testimony onto the public record and get people talking. That's what I think is going to turn this around.

I believe that human beings arrive on this Earth wanting to know absolutely everything, and the best thing we can do as parents is to get out of the way -- just be there to let them know what opportunities are there
-- Dorothy Werner, media liaison for the National Homeschool Association

[Anonymous]

On 2003-11-02 11:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"In Michigan, any child who has reached the age of 14 can consent to a guardianship.  You fill out the application, file it with the court, and get your hearing date.  Simple.



I think that a parent of a troubled child probably has a real concern about the child having problems at another person's house the same way they did at home.  Only the new person doesn't know the child well enough to know the lies, games, and head him/her off at the pass!  it all depends on what the situation was at home.  sometimes kids' behavior is much different in a different environment.  



My son lives with my mother and her husband.  They are both retired/off work.  Their life's mission is for my son to succeed (graduate highschool!).  He doesnt cut school there, he cant crawl back in bead after mom leaves, no not there.  he doesn't talk to my mom the way he talks to me b/c her husband wont allow it, he wouldn't dare punch holes in her wall, her husband said he'd put his head thro the wall if he dared do that.  Remarkably, he has only missed one day of school this year and has brought up all failing grades to all passing grades.  He loves and respects my mom and her husband, therefore, they get results.  Their (consistency) discipline,love, attention is 24/7.  It was a Godsend for me.  Others are not so lucky, but i'm a believer that children act differently in a different environment.  I did the best i could to raise him by myself AND pay bills, put food on the table, etc., ran him to soccer practices/games for 10 YEARS, gave him just about whatever he wanted.  What did I get:  disrespected, my house destroyed, arguements EVERY NIGHT.

  I wasn't good enuf but i'm not having a pity party for myself.  I'm happy he is finally "getting it".  the outcome is the important thing.  We are keeping our eyes on the goal.  One day he will realize he had it good at home, and probably feel guilty about how he treated me, if he doesn't already.  Until then, we are all holding our breath, waiting and hoping . . .



"

It's not easy being a teenager or the parent of one.  God bless you for giving your son everything you had (and then some!) and don't worry about the no-gratitude-attitude so typical of adolescence.  Your son is growing up with the help and guidance of people you love and trust.  This is a win-win situation that I wish more single parents and their children could benefit from.  

 :tup:

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-02 11:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"In Michigan, any child who has reached the age of 14 can consent to a guardianship.  You fill out the application, file it with the court, and get your hearing date.  Simple.

That's good to know! I wonder how many kids know it? Maybe it would be worthwhile to make sure school counselors and other people who may have a chance to intervene know all about these programs and will be willing to make sure the kids know of this way out.

I think that a parent of a troubled child probably has a real concern about the child having problems at another person's house the same way they did at home.  Only the new person doesn't know the child well enough to know the lies, games, and head him/her off at the pass!  it all depends on what the situation was at home.  sometimes kids' behavior is much different in a different environment.  

Right. Change of set and setting. I have a friend of my daughter's living with us now. For some damend reason, his grandparents kicked him out. I've known the kid for years and I know he's not perfect. But he's never done anything to me that would make me want to kick him to the curb. Would be nice if he'd either get a job here or get busy on some plans to move somewhere else permanently. But it's only been a week and, minus the years long battle on such topics, he's hearing it from his own concience and ego.

It doesn't work because I'm such a better parent than his own family. Hell, just ask my daughter (LOL!) It works because it's not my job to make him succeed or to do anything. There's no one for him to fight with about it but himself.

We always hurt the ones we love.

  I wasn't good enuf but i'm not having a pity party for myself.  I'm happy he is finally "getting it".  the outcome is the important thing.  We are keeping our eyes on the goal.  One day he will realize he had it good at home, and probably feel guilty about how he treated me, if he doesn't already.  Until then, we are all holding our breath, waiting and hoping . . .



"

Hey, good going! I'm not kidding or being snide. It's not easy to accept that, whatever the problem, you just can't solve it. Been there.

You're right, if the kid is doing better where he is, that's really all that matters. But you don't really want him to feel guilty, do you? I mean, you probably don't really understand everything about what the problem was and he probably can't put it to words either. Parent child relationships are complex and extremely potent.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant.



---Richard Nixon

[Deborah]

***That's good to know! I wonder how many kids know it? Maybe it would be worthwhile to make sure school counselors and other people who may have a chance to intervene know all about these programs and will be willing to make sure the kids know of this way out.
************

Now this is interesting. First thought- Why don't schools teach teens what their rights are?  

They certainly pass out a handbook or hold an assembly at the beginning of the year to inform them of which behaviors are misdemeanors or felonies- most in the audience don't even know the meaning of those words much less the potential consequences.

My guess is that there are only a handful of school officials/ counselors who would protect teens in this area or educate them with anything useful. The majority operate much like programs-set unreasitic rules and policies and punish, expell, then refer to outside sources. I'm sure there are some who would set up isolation rooms, use restraint, limited calories if they could get away with it.

A high school I'm familiar with had 1500-2000 students and was very much like a program. Did not have adequate lockers for the number of students enrolled- many shared or carried all their books. Gave two minutes to get across a campus larger than some jr colleges. Twenty minutes for lunch- most opted to skip lunch, would rather spend a few minutes socializing. They've got the teens rushed and busy every second they're on campus, have police strolling and biking around the campus, staff with walkie talkies, severe consequences for minor infractions. Felt like a prison without walls. This was not a slum, but a new school in a very middle class neighborhood.

[Froderik]

All in all they were all just bricks in the wall. Sorry, I'm in kind of a dark mood right now. I dropped out of the 10th grade not because of drugs, but because I thought that SCHOOL SUCKED! There, I said it... :grin:

[FaceKhan]

School does suck. I hated it for 10 years and finally got the fuck out and went to college early and did some unschooling.

The GED is the easiest test in the world. Everyone should take it every year starting in 6th grade and if they pass then they are graduated out of the government school bullshit and can get on with their lives.

[Antigen]

On 2003-11-02 16:30:00, Deborah wrote:

Now this is interesting. First thought- Why don't schools teach teens what their rights are?

Deborah, you answered your own question. If they actually taught kids about their rights, the kids might not so readily go along with waiving their rights every day by setting foot on campus.

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
-- Anonymous

[Anonymous]

The suckosity of government schools is a big reason why we home school.

Why would I want my kid to grow accustomed to knuckling under to that kind of bureaucratic crap?  I want her to learn the three R's, history, science, and the extracurriculars she's interested in and enjoys.  I don't want her to learn not to have a backbone.

 :wave:

[Froderik]

I admire anyone who has the chutzpah to do homeschooling. But one of the plusses of your kids being in school is getting a little breather from the excitement. Also, they learn about the way society works. They experience the bullshit firsthand. In a weird way, maybe that's a good thing. I like to think so. But by God, let me hear about something wrong going on, and I'll be there with both barrels, like Yosemite Sam. I ain't gonna have MY kids taking any shit from no school. Well, I'd like to elaborate on what I mean by this, but I'm at work and should stop fucking off.  :lol:

[Antigen]

While they're not in school, they're not exactly locked in the house, either. They go to the library, store, park, down to the river, hiking... whatever. Thankfully, this area is just lousey with people. Everywhere you look, there goes another one! So they make friends (slowly around here... they take their time warming up to new ppl) and they get enough bullshit into the mix w/o having to cram for it 6 hrs every day.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
--Edmund Burke

[Froderik]

Well, you have older kids. At this point in the game, mine need constant surveillance, lol.

[Antigen]

One of the nicer side benefits is that, while they're young, they never learn to act like unrully herd animals. They hardly experience that sort of treatment or behavior firsthand. Only when we go to kid events and organized activities, like gymnastics or something. They've been able to figure it out enough to get along.

The rest of the time, they have no trouble at all behaving appropriately in any age or type of company. They'll hang out with kids their own age and older as equals or step right in and help take care of the little ones. They're just as comfortable being respectful to sweet old ladies as they are cussing out the idiots who throw cat calls and bottles from cars.

Under the benign influence of our republican institutions, and the maintenance of peace with all nations whilst so many of them were engaged in bloody and wasteful wars, the fruits of a just policy were enjoyed in an unrivaled growth of our faculties and resources.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/foundingdocs/inaugural/madison1stinaug.html' target='_new'>James Madison

[Anonymous]

>A high school I'm familiar with had 1500-2000 students and was very much like a program. Did not have adequate lockers for the number of students enrolled- many shared or carried all their books. Gave two minutes to get across a campus larger than some jr colleges. Twenty minutes for lunch- most opted to skip lunch, would rather spend a few minutes socializing. They've got the teens rushed and busy every second they're on campus, have police strolling and biking around the campus, staff with walkie talkies, severe consequences for minor infractions. Felt like a prison without walls. This was not a slum, but a new school in a very middle class neighborhood.


Deb, sounds like my high school in Plymouth!  I had swimmining class, in January/feb, had to be changed and in pool at 7:20 am every morning (so cold!).  I had 10 minutes to get out of pool, get dressed and RUN accross from plymouth school to Canton school with wet hair.  Its damn cold in Michigan in January!  To say it sucked is an understatement.  Yeah, it is tough being a teen.  Its so hard to understand them once you've got one though  ::