Author Topic: My TTI Postings (general discussion)  (Read 22870 times)

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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #135 on: October 21, 2010, 02:37:58 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
BP, I hear ya.  So basically if I were anti-program we would never be talking about any of this.  It would have been viewed acceptable (or worse case a dick move) and we would have moved on.

No, not necessarily.  I think the most important part of what BP posted is that you're lumping us all together.  You judge all of us by either DJ or WY or whomever else is the target du jour.  You purposely obfuscate the issues and posters.


Quote from: "Botched Programming"
I tollerated you alot better when you were actually trying to do something real like putting together statistics and giving us facts

Ok.....I'm gonna have to reach thru the screen and throttle you for that!    ;)  

His bullshit, manipulated "statistics" and supposed "facts" were nothing but smoke and mirrors and REALLY annoying. :beat:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Botched Programming

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #136 on: October 21, 2010, 02:41:34 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

Quote from: "Botched Programming"
I tollerated you alot better when you were actually trying to do something real like putting together statistics and giving us facts

Ok.....I'm gonna have to reach thru the screen and throttle you for that!    ;)  

His bullshit, manipulated "statistics" and supposed "facts" were nothing but smoke and mirrors and REALLY annoying. :beat:


Love ya Anne... Mean it !!!!!      :seg:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #137 on: October 21, 2010, 02:47:22 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

His bullshit, manipulated "statistics" and supposed "facts" were nothing but smoke and mirrors and REALLY annoying. :beat:

The ones that were supported with links to credible sources stood on their own.  The ones which I did not have links to were my own opinion based on experience so were less credible.  But I believe in most cases I presented them that way so the reader could differentiate.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #138 on: October 21, 2010, 02:52:41 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

His bullshit, manipulated "statistics" and supposed "facts" were nothing but smoke and mirrors and REALLY annoying. :beat:

The ones that were supported with links to credible sources stood on their own.

No, they didn't.  You manipulated the hell out of them to mold them to fit to your opinions and would put up parental exit surveys and proclaim them to be valid, clinical, longitudinal studies.  I'm referring to that non-stop battle between you and RB.  PLEASE, for the love of everything good and true in this world, NEITHER of you start that shit up again!

Quote
 But I believe in most cases I presented them that way so the reader could differentiate.

Nope.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Botched Programming

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #139 on: October 21, 2010, 03:03:36 PM »
Oh shit I opened a can of worms.....    :eek:

I'll tell you what, let's start with how many kids relapse after leaving a program and go to harder drugs than they done before going in
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #140 on: October 21, 2010, 03:05:45 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

No, they didn't.  You manipulated the hell out of them to mold them to fit to your opinions and would put up parental exit surveys and proclaim them to be valid, clinical, longitudinal studies.  I'm referring to that non-stop battle between you and RB.  PLEASE, for the love of everything good and true in this world, NEITHER of you start that shit up again!

No I didnt claim they were clinical longitudinal studies.  People like yourself were asking for those.  There were studies presented by using surveys which you didnt like.  You wanted clinical studies and there is nothing wrong with that.  The studies stood on their own and could be rejected or accepted by the reader.

I also presented suicide results in and out of programs which I derived the information from national statistics.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #141 on: October 21, 2010, 03:15:58 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

No, they didn't.  You manipulated the hell out of them to mold them to fit to your opinions and would put up parental exit surveys and proclaim them to be valid, clinical, longitudinal studies.  I'm referring to that non-stop battle between you and RB.  PLEASE, for the love of everything good and true in this world, NEITHER of you start that shit up again!

No I didnt claim they were clinical longitudinal studies.  People like yourself were asking for those.  There were studies presented by using surveys which you didnt like.  You wanted clinical studies and there is nothing wrong with that.  The studies stood on their own and could be rejected or accepted by the reader.

You can't even call them studies, because they're not.  They're exit surveys that parents filled out.  Not a study by a long shot.

Quote
I also presented suicide results in and out of programs which I derived the information from national statistics.

Yeah, I know and while the stats may have been accurate comparing public schools to programs is comparing apples to oranges.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #142 on: October 21, 2010, 03:17:05 PM »
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Oh shit I opened a can of worms.....    :eek:

I'll tell you what, let's start with how many kids relapse after leaving a program and go to harder drugs than they done before going in

LOL

Technically if the kids did not embrace the thinking of the program then they simply put their drug use "on hold" and it wouldnt be considered a relapse when they start doing drugs at home again.  So even if all the kids move onto drugs after the program the program can claim that no kids relapsed because the kids never embraced the program to start with.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #143 on: October 21, 2010, 03:19:24 PM »
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

Quote from: "Botched Programming"
I tollerated you alot better when you were actually trying to do something real like putting together statistics and giving us facts

Ok.....I'm gonna have to reach thru the screen and throttle you for that!    ;)  

His bullshit, manipulated "statistics" and supposed "facts" were nothing but smoke and mirrors and REALLY annoying. :beat:


Love ya Anne... Mean it !!!!!      :seg:


Backatya babe!!   :-*   :cheers:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Botched Programming

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #144 on: October 21, 2010, 03:22:46 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

No, they didn't.  You manipulated the hell out of them to mold them to fit to your opinions and would put up parental exit surveys and proclaim them to be valid, clinical, longitudinal studies.  I'm referring to that non-stop battle between you and RB.  PLEASE, for the love of everything good and true in this world, NEITHER of you start that shit up again!

No I didnt claim they were clinical longitudinal studies.  People like yourself were asking for those.  There were studies presented by using surveys which you didnt like.  You wanted clinical studies and there is nothing wrong with that.  The studies stood on their own and could be rejected or accepted by the reader.

I also presented suicide results in and out of programs which I derived the information from national statistics.



...
For the most part I do agree with Anne, You would inject your own interpitation in with you facts, but when we would try to interject our interpertation you would almost demand a link for a supporting basis. This was the sort of double standard that you presented us with.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #145 on: October 21, 2010, 03:24:15 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

You can't even call them studies, because they're not.  They're exit surveys that parents filled out.  Not a study by a long shot.

Dam it,anne that is not true.  The guy that conducted the survey stated very clearly that when he was done adding up all the answers that it "felt" like a study to him.  So the program decided to release the results as a "study".  lol



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Whooter

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #146 on: October 21, 2010, 03:27:10 PM »
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
For the most part I do agree with Anne, You would inject your own interpitation in with you facts, but when we would try to interject our interpertation you would almost demand a link for a supporting basis. This was the sort of double standard that you presented us with.

Well, I was the only guy here trying to push a very large agenda all by myself.  So I would naturally cut corners and move some numbers around to try to make my point.



...


(These are the little gems that DJ likes to quote.)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 03:30:58 PM by Whooter »

Offline Botched Programming

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #147 on: October 21, 2010, 03:30:03 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

You can't even call them studies, because they're not.  They're exit surveys that parents filled out.  Not a study by a long shot.

Dam it,anne that is not true.  The guy that conducted the survey stated very clearly that when he was done adding up all the answers that it "felt" like a study to him.  So the program decided to release the results as a "study".  lol



...

Howcan you prove that he did not fix the results to appear the way he wanted them to be... Could be like the Florida election when Bush was elected... Seems like there were hanging chaffs on this guys study. Due to the fact that this guy probably had a source of income coming in from treatment centers.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 03:33:29 PM by Botched Programming »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #148 on: October 21, 2010, 03:32:58 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Botched Programming"
Oh shit I opened a can of worms.....    :eek:

I'll tell you what, let's start with how many kids relapse after leaving a program and go to harder drugs than they done before going in

LOL

Technically if the kids did not embrace the thinking of the program then they simply put their drug use "on hold" and it wouldnt be considered a relapse when they start doing drugs at home again.  So even if all the kids move onto drugs after the program the program can claim that no kids relapsed because the kids never embraced the program to start with.

And therein lies the circular logic and self fulfilling prophecy that comes from programs.

When I look at my own life it comes down to this.  As I've said, I was the "lightweight" of the group of high school friends I was hanging out with.  I had only smoked pot and drank (save when someone slipped a quaalude to me without my knowledge).  I went thru Straight and ended up doing harder drugs after getting out because I believed what they told me about being an addict (even though I wasn't anywhere NEAR an addict before going in) and was diagnosed with PTSD from the abuse suffered in Straight.  The kids who were doing much "worse" things in high school than I was who did NOT go through a program, grew out of their "bad" behaviors and went on to become fairly normal, well adjusted adults.  Once I rejected the  notion that I was an addict and shed the Straight and AA way of thinking, my life began to resemble some sense of normalcy. I realized that I was not an alcoholic and that I wasn't doomed to a life of death, insanity or jail.  That's part of what I mean when I say that there was a vast difference between what Straight taught us to believe and reality.

Yes, it's anecdotal but still.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: My TTI Postings (general discussion)
« Reply #149 on: October 21, 2010, 03:34:22 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

You can't even call them studies, because they're not.  They're exit surveys that parents filled out.  Not a study by a long shot.

Dam it,anne that is not true.  The guy that conducted the survey stated very clearly that when he was done adding up all the answers that it "felt" like a study to him.  So the program decided to release the results as a "study".  lol

You say that jokingly but, sadly, it's true.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa