Anyone else find it strange program staff moderate fornits?

[Anonymous]

I worked at a wilderness program

Well fornits sure ain't what it used to be. Expensive program lawyers, powerful law firms, Sue Scheff and Co., nobody could shut down fornits and kill it's spirit, that is, until Psy took over. We have been told we are being protected for our own good with the numerous restrictions imposed by Psy, but the evidence shows now that it only hurts fornits, and the ability to have discussions, which is the entire point of this place to begin with.

Now we have program staff censoring, moving and chopping up our posts. They get to decide whether we are "on topic" enough, or if our posts should remain. I find this repugnant, and I truly wonder whether the owner of fornits had a seizure, or what. It's like fornits has entered upside down world, where staffers are still in control, and survivors get banned for saying the wrong thing.

Does anybody else remember the old days of fornits? When it was tan and orange, and you could post anonymously and your avatar would be a paper bag head? Fornits actually served a useful purpose back then, when the people who created the content on fornits retained the ability to post where they wanted, about whatever they wanted, and respond to whomever they felt like. Now it feels like fornits is run by an obsessive compulsive, communist. Or perhaps, program staff.

Psy isn't even a program survivor. He was an adult who signed himself into drug treatment, a program for 18-27 year olds. His entire program was payed for courtesy of you and me, the US taxpayer. He could have walked out at any point. He was never abused, or mistreated. He thinks he got duped into signing himself into treatment, sorry, but stupidity and such child like acquiescence to parents demands does not make you a survivor.

So we have an adult who went to rehab, and wasn't abused, running fornits, and who does he pick for his main censor/moderator? A program staffer. Fornits has been getting slower and slower, and posters have left in droves. The reason is simple, restricting speech does not, and will not work. Fornits must return itself to it's original ideals of free speech and expression if it expects to stay relevant, and online. Ursus, Troll Patrol, Anne Bonne and Robert Bruce arguing with Whooter, is all that is left of fornits.

It's not too late. Remove Psy as admin, remove all moderators and all moderation and go back to the orange/tan color scheme. Otherwise fornits will eventually suffer the fate of every other forum Psy has had control of, it will die.

[Oscar]

If Fornits could be run without being hit by tons of spam, porn etc. which scare the important viewers off (which is parents and other people trying to seek a desperate solution for their kids), then the moderation should go.

I have asked for moderation several times and my arguments was shut down by both Psy and Ginger. Suddenly one they did choose otherwise. I disagree with some of their actions. A lot of my posts in the "Open Free for All" got burried when they locked this sub-forum instead of making a new one for a special purpose, but I have to accept it. It is their message board. It is their money which keeps it open. Maybe they have altered their opinion based on the trouble with CALO. How far can you go when we are talking the right to free speech? Not so far as we think. Even here in Denmark things are changing. A member of our parliament was fined because he spoke out against honor killings.

It you dont like the trend on Fornits, there are other message boards. Anti-wwasp is open. Troubled Teen industry is open. Fican is open.

But I also feel that the blogs have taken over. When people are telling their stories, they can get the message out in a blog. When we at Spft work to supply the wiki with information we often speak with survivors and get them to create a new blog rather than having them post on a message board where their story would be buried in pro-program thread in seconds.

We believe that getting the story of anyone told is important, so we support syndicating of stories like they do in the Swedish controlled Tales from the Black school blog.

I feel that there is a large potential in quoting good testimonies and republish them in a new environment. Actually the industry does the same, so it could be the next big thing now where the message boards themselves are somewhat tamed.

[liarsexposed]

Seems all I ever see is Whooter acting out.
BS in the Elan thread by the master of screen names, and his puppet
and my response to them
People dont want to read that garbage. I will say that the "Freedom of speech" is a god given right. But it was not meant to protect an abuser from justice. As a result of this, and failure to reign in the abusers,many people that used to post here are simply ot interested.
Also,the asscociation of their names,statements,and horrible things said about them, picked up by google has made several stay away permenently
Which will soon be my next step
Regards

[BuzzKill]

If Fornits could be run without being hit by tons of spam, porn etc. which scare the important viewers off (which is parents and other people trying to seek a desperate solution for their kids), then the moderation should go.

 Something needed to be done about what the board had become if it was to be a place where any kind of meaningful dialog and debate could take place. It does seem that things have gone to far the other way. I'd advise trying to find a minimal level of moderating to keep the board from becoming useless swill. I have always advocated as much. The problem seems to be (as Ginger always said it would be) who gets to decide?

[Froderik]

Does anybody else remember the old days of fornits? When it was tan and orange, and you could post anonymously and your avatar would be a paper bag head?

Yes, I do, and I even saved a lot of those pages (the whole page, not just bookmarks) because I had an intermittent connection back then (used dial-up, had to keep the line open sometimes) and did a lot of reading off line.. yeah i remember it.. it was cool aside from the fact that there were security issues, technically speaking. I agree that a lot of the moderation seems to be an exercise in futility, but don't really see it as doing that much harm. Perhaps there is something more important to complain about?

[Samara]

I, too, miss the old days. It's hard to realize those days are over,but I think the devolution of Fornits was a confluence of factors and can't be placed squarely on Psy's shoulders.

The spirit of Fornits began to disintegrate when more people were permitted to moderate - not all of them acquainted with a program, a sense of discretion, or a sense of camaraderie. In the old days, things could get raw and a but wild, but there was an underlying sense of solidarity. Things that undermined this was:
1. Sustained infighting between moderators.  
2. Serious discretionary violations from new moderators.  Even if pro program people were targeted, it undermined trust and the willingness to put your stuff out there.
3. Whooter's persistent and pervasive flooding, misdirecting, and derailing. Many of us, myself included, have responded, perhaps stupidly so.  But it was difficult not to because he effectively eroded the spirit and purpose of this site with his deluge of sabotage. (Yeah, I don't need to get into a big brouhaha with Whooter, but I do think his presence has had a significant negative impact.)

The combination of these factors created a clusterfuck of devolutionary proportion. Probably the Straight crew is strongest. But I've heard a few say  they would never have shared what they've shared here initially if they walked into the current environment.  I wouldn't have either.  It's a shame, because the sense of validation and support this site initially offered was tremendous, and I'm still grateful for it.

I don't think we can get that back. It's been spiraling downward since 2006.  It's like trying to save a dead relationship on the basis of a beautiful memory. Some of us still come back for the figurative sex with an ex, but it's not the same as those heady days.

[heretik]

I, too, miss the old days. It's hard to realize those days are over,but I think the devolution of Fornits was a confluence of factors and can't be placed squarely on Psy's shoulders.

The spirit of Fornits began to disintegrate when more people were permitted to moderate - not all of them acquainted with a program, a sense of discretion, or a sense of camaraderie. In the old days, things could get raw and a but wild, but there was an underlying sense of solidarity. Things that undermined this was:
1. Sustained infighting between moderators.  
2. Serious discretionary violations from new moderators.  Even if pro program people were targeted, it undermined trust and the willingness to put your stuff out there.
3. Whooter's persistent and pervasive flooding, misdirecting, and derailing. Many of us, myself included, have responded, perhaps stupidly so.  But it was difficult not to because he effectively eroded the spirit and purpose of this site with his deluge of sabotage. (Yeah, I don't need to get into a big brouhaha with Whooter, but I do think his presence has had a significant negative impact.)

The combination of these factors created a clusterfuck of devolutionary proportion. Probably the Straight crew is strongest. But I've heard a few say  they would never have shared what they've shared here initially if they walked into the current environment.  I wouldn't have either.  It's a shame, because the sense of validation and support this site initially offered was tremendous, and I'm still grateful for it.

I don't think we can get that back. It's been spiraling downward since 2006.  It's like trying to save a dead relationship on the basis of a beautiful memory. Some of us still come back for the figurative sex with an ex, but it's not the same as those heady days.

Samara,
Not to be a sad sack but if you keep talking like this then who is going to want to come back or stay (if your new). Fornits can continue to evolve, everything changes especially the members. Life changes for many marriages, divorces, babies, job changes, no job, mental and emotional turmoils, lack of passion and so on.
This Whooter situation as far as I can see has been on the fence for a few years. Nobody seems to want to deal with it on their watch. He is obstructing and manipulating threads this is extremely obvious, some want to deal with it others don't but you all agree he is a shill. Just business Whooter, "we can all agree on this", right.  
People are still coming here (I did) and I have found some friends in just the short time I have been here.
So we may be in a flux right now it will get better, I'm counting on it.

[none-ya]

trollkeeper wrote;
" Does it matter if I am an ex - staffer as a moderator? If you don't like that, tough shit.

It matters to me. Your attitude and your actions(moderation) show that you can't be trusted.

[heretik]

http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32073&start=30#p388339

DannyB II posted at 9:17 p.m. then yourself posted at 9:38 pm.  I am not sure what's going on.  I do agree  that things will get better.

Nobody seems to want to deal with it on their watch. He is obstructing and manipulating threads this is extremely obvious, some want to deal with it others don't but you all agree he is a shill.

People can ignore Whooter and they can put him on their foe list. Where is "nobody wants to deal with it on their watch is" coming from?  psy and ginger do the best they can.

DannyB II posted at 9:17 p.m. then yourself posted at 9:38 pm.  I am not sure what's going on.

So what Joel, why don't you start a fight with someone else. Look at the IP's. Danny also told me you PM'd him and asked him to continue to post, what is up with that. Were you trying to set us up to see if were one in the same. Your behavior is deplorable if you stooped so low to PM someone with a apparent request to see them come back only to use them. Also another of your abusive actions;  you had taken a post he deleted and abused your powers as a moderator and posted it anyway. You know which one.

It seems your sincerity is under scrutiny here recently Joel. Why don't you keep your own backyard clean. DJ and None Ya have spoken about it. You are very vindictive, Joel.

When you can grow up and conduct yourself maturely on this site, I will listen to your points a little more intently. I have seen your progress since I have gotten here, it doesn't appear any better then before. Why??  Just before you became a moderator you went around and erased a slue of your posts, the ones you felt would make you look bad. I don't know how many other people noticed this but I did.
Joel your whole character is in question in my eyes, so get off me. Just worry about who your supposed to be, find a personality and stick with it.

Where is "nobody wants to deal with it on their watch is" coming from?  psy and ginger do the best they can.

You can't really speak for Psy and Ginger so please don't.

[heretik]

Also another of your abusive actions; you had taken a post he deleted and abused your powers as a moderator and posted it anyway. You know which one.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32073&start=30#p388339 I remember.  I quoted that before he deleted it.  If you feel I abused my power in that case, you can file a complaint with the admins.  I will appeal it per the Bill of Rights in The Rules of The Board.

No you did not, if you had his post would not have been deleted. Joel your intentions are to manipulate people for your own purposes. I saw this coming when I arrived here at fornits. You are not someone who values integrity at all, people are starting to see this. I believe it is just immaturity and not so much malicious but time will tell.
Joel the only appealing that will be done is to your consciousness.

[heretik]

Also another of your abusive actions; you had taken a post he deleted and abused your powers as a moderator and posted it anyway. You know which one.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32073&start=30#p388339 I remember.  I quoted that before he deleted it.  If you feel I abused my power in that case, you can file a complaint with the admins.  I will appeal it per the Bill of Rights in The Rules of The Board.

No you did not, if you had his post would not have been deleted. Joel your intentions are to manipulate people for your own purposes. I saw this coming when I arrived here at fornits. You are not someone who values integrity at all, people are starting to see this. I believe it is just immaturity and not so much malicious but time will tell.
Joel the only appealing that will be done is to your consciousness.

I disagree on the integrity, heretik.  Would you questioned my integrity before the issue me being a staffer came up?  Tis a fair question, "just sayin" .  I don't have the power to delete people's posts but you already knew that.

I disagree on the integrity, heretik.  Would you questioned my integrity before the issue me being a staffer came up?  Tis a fair question, "just sayin" .  I don't have the power to delete people's posts but you already knew that.

[/quote]

I did question your integrity when I first got here, when you enjoyed harassing me constantly by PM and on the board, thinking I was Danny.
I did not say you deleted anything, I said you took a deleted post and re-posted it.
On the subject of you being a past employee, I personally don't care whether you were staff or not. I don't believe anyone else would either if we did not have to deal with your lack of discipline when you are confronted. Your reactions resemble staff who were inadequately screened and/or trained for their positions.
Joel I am not looking to fight with you, honestly. It gains us nothing. Just stop manipulating people here for your own reasons.
Paranoid, no Joel I am not. I don't care when it gets right down to it, who you think I am and what IP address I choose to post from, if Danny posts 2 minutes after me or before me. I am done with that crap. I'll let you play with it from here on out.

[none-ya]

ex staffer wrote;
"Staffers put duct tape on people's mouth, yell at them during confrontation sessions, beat them, deprive them of food, deprive them of water, deprive them of sleep and sexually abuse them. I haven't done that to people on fornits."

So what your saying then is, you did those things to people in the program!

[Antigen]

Related: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32073

[Samara]

He's not saying that.

No one is proud of what they did in a program as a student or staff member. The more people who understand the abuses - no matter what part of the program they played, the better.

[Froderik]

No one is proud of what they did in a program as a student or staff member.

I wouldn't go that far; there are some who are still proud of it, or don't have a problem with it.  :poison: