Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Parents should be held accountable!
Froderik:
Oh, go fuck yourself already. I sincerely hope that your kids stab you to death in your sleep, you idiot. You sure would deserve it, fucker...
Antigen:
Please stop shouting, Anon. (caps lock) It's not that we're having trouble understanding or remembering your rant. It's just that we're not buying it. And we probably won't, even if you develop a more sophisticated approach and learn how to use font sizes and colors or even animation w/ sound.
You see, we were the kids in question 20 years ago. Now we're the grown ups. Most of us have teenage or older kids ourselves. Some of us are even grandparents already. We've seen, heard and lived all sides of the argument from several different perspectives.
Here's what it comes down to, really. Lots of people are freaked out and terrified by the way their teenaged kids go about inventing an adult identity, seperate from their parents. Some few respond by trying to prevent it at any and all costs. Others use different approaches.
It has always been thus down through the ages. Read Romeo and Juliette or the parable of the prodigal son or any of a number of Greek tragedies. Understand that these are timeless stories because these things actually happen to real live people every day.
100% of the responsibility for sending kids into these private prisons rests w/ the people who sign the contracts (those who do so while not under duress, anyway) and who pay for the 'service'. No one else "does the necessary things" to inter these kids in these gulags. If it were the kids who brought this on themselves, then all kids who deviate from their parents' wishes would be in a private prison. Obviously not, as no more than about 5k or so kids are in them at any given time.
According to the US census, there were 20,219,890 kids age 15 - 19 in the US in 2000. Even leaving out the 12 - 14 year olds (and younger) that's still only about 2.5% of the total population for this age group.
We know already that the "signs" of ______ (state your favorite imagined behavioral problem or ODD if you can't think of anything more specific) used to convince gullible parents that their kid is carrying on a secret double existance as a bank robbing heroin addict are just a boiler-plate catch-all for normal adolescent behavior. So the argument that these are only the worst of the worst doesn't really cut the mustard w/ those of us who've been there.
The fact is that, out of all the parents in the US who go through the white knuckle ride that raising kids sometimes is, only a very small number of them find it necessary to send their kids off to a private prison. All the rest do something else, as it has been down through the ages.
Bottom line, it wasn't your fault, kid. Your bone-headed parents, well intentioned and devoted as they surely are, are the ones who "did the necessary things" to get you locked up.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much
liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
--Thomas Jefferson, 1791, in a letter to Archibald Stuart
--- End quote ---
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2004-02-16 17:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"YOU CAN CALL THE KIDS THE VICTIMS ALL YOU WANT, AND IN SOME CASES IN CERTAIN SCENARIOS THEY ARE.
--- End quote ---
So first, lets get out into the open...... You admit that there are abuses, and that the potential for abuse exists!
That is at least a step in the right direction.
--- Quote ---On 2004-02-16 17:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
YOU ARE NEGLECTING TO SEE, HOWEVER, THAT THEY ENDED UP IN A FACILITY SUCH AS THIS FOR A REASON. IF YOU LIKE THE BLAME GAME AS U CALL IT (I REMEMBER THAT TERM VERY WELL) THEN SHOOT AN EYEBALL OVER IN THE KIDS DIRECTION FIRST, LETS NOT FORGET THAT WE 'STUDENTS' GOT THE BALL ROLLING IN THE FIRST PLACE. "
--- End quote ---
So, what you are saying, Here is that Parent who do not take responsibility for their LACK of action, which was basically created by shoving Disney down their kids throat and expecting them to act appropriately, without first taking th time to teach them so. In many cases where they just don't have the time because they are busy working to support _their_ lifestyle, and in others because the didn't want the fuckin kid in the first place. Are exasperated, and push the problems off onto someone else, with blatant disregard of what the child _really_ needs, which in most cases was the lost love and or attention that they NEEDED and DESERVED.
Once in these places, which have the increasing potential of abuse, because they are full of children, whom many don't have any REAL problems other then the normal teenage rebellion that we all go through, who do not have any self respect or respect for others as they were taught by ACTION, in turn treat others as they had been treated. All with the full blessing of "counselors" ( I use this term lightly).
It sounds to me Anon, that you are pissed off at facing the reality that you did not take responsibility for you child, and showed them the way, or refused to see what they really needed, and stuck them in a program that they now resent you even MORE for.
It's either that or you are a recent graduate who's head is still reeling and feel that everything that is wrong with your life is all upon you, and that your parent's responsibility in the matter is non-existent.
Lets remember, that everything starts in the home. It starts at the first day they the child was brought into this world and with a loving family, never ends. A tight stranglehold is rarely ever the answer, and usually only leads to exasperation.
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2004-02-16 17:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"YOU CAN CALL THE KIDS THE VICTIMS ALL YOU WANT, AND IN SOME CASES IN CERTAIN SCENARIOS THEY ARE. YOU ARE NEGLECTING TO SEE, HOWEVER, THAT THEY ENDED UP IN A FACILITY SUCH AS THIS FOR A REASON. IF YOU LIKE THE BLAME GAME AS U CALL IT (I REMEMBER THAT TERM VERY WELL) THEN SHOOT AN EYEBALL OVER IN THE KIDS DIRECTION FIRST, LETS NOT FORGET THAT WE 'STUDENTS' GOT THE BALL ROLLING IN THE FIRST PLACE. "
--- End quote ---
Wow. Something must have pushed your buttons. Perhaps you were one of those parents mentioned in the preceeding post? Perhaps you should shoot your eyeball right into the mirror my friend. Would you like these kids to also take responsibility for the abuse they received? There is no excuse or exception for the way kids are treated, no matter how big a junkie, or how chemically insane, or how doped up or burnt out.
And more of a reason they should have received "real" help from "real" professionals!
If I'm mistaken and you are a "student", perhaps you can tell me how your "getting the ball rolling in the first place" has anything to do with what someone else did or did not do to become a "student." Perhaps you are still stuck in believing that you deserve to be mistreated as well and you continue to believe what they told you. I will tell you that I did not deserve to be beaten, bruised, spit on, humiliated, and exposed to a great deal of emotional abuse. If you continue to feel you deserved it I am sad for you.
Certainly there were kids who were drug addicted, abusing alcohol, suicidal, or effected by mental illness, perhaps in dire need of some sort of treatment. I don't believe anyone is debating that here. Unfortunately, these individuals did not get the treatment they so desperately needed. I can speak personally for myself that I was not one of them. There were countless children who never drugged or drank a drop. Tell me, why were they there? I don't think the discussion is about who needed treatment. It is more about the treatment they didn't get and the abuse they certainly got.
Yes. The reason. That is exactly what I'm trying to figure out. What is the reason that these parents would accept no contact with their child for months, years? Why would a parent accept not seeing their child except from a distance across a crowded room? Why would a parent not be extremely concerned that their child was not in school, not receiving an education, for years? Why did red flags not go off when the promised amount of time the child would be away from home dragged on into endless years? Why did these parents not feel alarmed at wounds, broken bones and bruises on their children? Because parents got something for themselves out of these places. They found something in them that they needed personally, not what was in the best interest of their children. But What?
It isn't a matter of blame. These are questions I'd love some parents to answer. We'll leave the blame to the self proclaimed "professionals" who tell adolescent girls that they provoked their own father to rape them and tell children who were battered by parents they deserved it.
Let's just end by saying that NO child needs, in your words, a "facility such as this" Let's remember that there are countless rehabs, hospitals and mental health options which are productive, neccessary, and successful in helping adolescents address the problems they are facing. These however are not from what I can tell, the places being discussed here. And kids from those places don't have and do not need a website like this because they were treated appropriately for their problems AND treated right.
Haven't so many of these kids been blamed for so much that can not possibly be their fault already? What is your point?
Anonymous:
You make a good point - I hope your post will be read over carefully and thoughtfully by the program folks who drop by.
In my opinion, what the parents 'get' out of it is their ego stroked and inflated. They get a group to belong to; something to be and commit to.
They have it powerfully and constantly reinforced by group think, acceptance and compliance.
For the most part, everyone they are talking to about their child's situation is in agreement that they are doing what?s best; even what Must be done; for the child's sake.
They are strongly discouraged from speaking with anyone who might not be supportive of 'the program'. Many take this to the point of cutting off contact with non-supportive family members.
And they have a large group of like minded folks telling them they are wonderful, powerful, and justified for trusting the program so absolutely.
In my mind, its a diabolically clever mode of control the program has concocted.
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