Kids in Program Credible?

[Shadyacres]

I believe the majority of the programs today are structured to help the kids build up their self esteem, build family bonds and get them set on a healthy track.

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Funny, that is EXACTLY what my mom believed 25 years ago, along with all the idiots who counseled her to put me in one of them.  The reason she believed this is simple, the program told her so.  Just like the ones that exist today will tell you this.  How many children will have to have their minds irreparably damaged before parents stop being so naive and gullible?  ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TAKE YOUR KID AWAY AND NOT LET YOU SEE THEM CANNOT BE TRUSTED!!!  Complete cult indoctrination can be accomplished in a reasonably short time, do not let anyone sequester your child, for any length of time.  Especially people who have a long history of cult behavior, or who work in an industry with a long history of cult behavior.

[Shadyacres]

Whooter, I have seen you making insinuations about others that they are narrow minded. And you’d be right in thinking that it’s not quite the case when you’re willing put yourself in the shoes of a troubled teen.  Do you think you yourself could open up a bit more to that? I had been asking you a question awhile ago,  maybe you are willing to answer it now.

I was wondering, why did you need to run from your therapy and not decide to stick with your program? Couldn’t opening up to it have helped you attain a bit of perspective?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&hilit=education+about+forced+therapy

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Granted, Initially the kids are forced into the therapeutic process but most of them eventually embrace it if they connect and get along with their therapist.  So it is consensual and the child benefits from it the same way an adult would.  The only difference is that the child doesn't consent at the onset.

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They embrace it if they want to ever get out of there, it is called COERCION.  So it is NOT CONSENSUAL, do you see what I mean?

[heretik]

Shadyacres wrote:
"They embrace it if they want to ever get out of there, it is called COERCION. So it is NOT CONSENSUAL, do you see what I mean?"

Whooter this comment here is in reference to children not adults. Also I don't believe whether I am new to fornits or not has any bearing on my capacity to understand, "lack of informed consent and coercion".

[Whooter]

I believe the majority of the programs today are structured to help the kids build up their self esteem, build family bonds and get them set on a healthy track.

...

Funny, that is EXACTLY what my mom believed 25 years ago, along with all the idiots who counseled her to put me in one of them.  The reason she believed this is simple, the program told her so.  Just like the ones that exist today will tell you this.  How many children will have to have their minds irreparably damaged before parents stop being so naive and gullible?  ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TAKE YOUR KID AWAY AND NOT LET YOU SEE THEM CANNOT BE TRUSTED!!!  Complete cult indoctrination can be accomplished in a reasonably short time, do not let anyone sequester your child, for any length of time.  Especially people who have a long history of cult behavior, or who work in an industry with a long history of cult behavior.

Geesh, Shady, you come across as very paranoid.  You cannot very easily be brainwashed or indoctrinated into a cult if you are busy preparing for your SATs, competing with other schools in sports, going on trips and talking to your family.  If you read up on brainwashing/cults you will see that the person needs to be totally isolated and dependent on another person or group of people.  You blow this stuff way out of proportion.



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[Whooter]

Granted, Initially the kids are forced into the therapeutic process but most of them eventually embrace it if they connect and get along with their therapist.  So it is consensual and the child benefits from it the same way an adult would.  The only difference is that the child doesn't consent at the onset.

...

They embrace it if they want to ever get out of there, it is called COERCION.  So it is NOT CONSENSUAL, do you see what I mean?

You can call it coercion if you like, but the kids are underage and until they are 18 they need to listen to those in charge.  If a parent says: "Get  on that school bus whether you like it or not".  That is coercion also, but most of the time the child learns in school in-spite of being forced to go and many kids even end up enjoying it.



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[Samara]

Getting on the bus and doing chores is not the same as being coerced to give up all mental and emotional boundaries and participate in mindraping psychodramas by cultists. You know that, Whooter. We aren't talking about eating your veggies.

[Whooter]

Getting on the bus and doing chores is not the same as being coerced to give up all mental and emotional boundaries and participate in mindraping psychodramas by cultists. You know that, Whooter. We aren't talking about eating your veggies.

 If you want to beef it up with all your drama of being submerged into a cult and being mindraped then sure it sounds horrible like forcing a kid onto the bus to attend school at Columbine High School 2 days after the shootings.  We could all give extreme examples.  The programs I am aware of give the parents a time line like  12 to 14 months, work on getting into college, building a bond with their family at home, communication with friends and family etc.  We all know cults dont do this.

We were talking about being forced into therapy, Samara. Kids many times resist but eventually benefit from  therapy which is the same with many things kids need to be pushed into.  



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[Anne Bonney]

If you read up on brainwashing/cults you will see that the person needs to be totally isolated and dependent on another person or group of people.  

Which is exactly what happens in these places.  That's why communication is restricted/monitored/disallowed.  They don't want any outside influence entering the "students" minds.

And it's far easier to brainwash someone than you think.

[Anne Bonney]

Whooter, what is not commendable is your true intent in these conversations you have with sincere members here on this site. You, I believe get a perverse pleasure antagonizing them with your fake benign quotations. Your analogies today do no justice to the children who have suffered and are still suffering under the thumbs of programs misusing the label, "healthy treatment". You have no point at all, this has been established. Awake has presented countless articles and studies for you to comment on and you hesitate to answer. Why??? You have no answer intellectually or emotionally to come back with. "NO EXPERIENCE" professionally or personally.
You are a comical buffoon playing a part that comes from some disturbed latent behavior.
Here is a example of a confused inexperienced comment you constantly make; "The total use of thought control or brainwashing is not acceptable in my opinion, but some of the techniques that are used may be I really dont know".
You really do not know what you want to say, better you say nothing. (Old saying; Better a fool say nothing then speak and leave no shadow of a doubt.)

 :notworthy:

[Whooter]

If you read up on brainwashing/cults you will see that the person needs to be totally isolated and dependent on another person or group of people.  

Which is exactly what happens in these places.  That's why communication is restricted/monitored/disallowed.  They don't want any outside influence entering the "students" minds.

And it's far easier to brainwash someone than you think.

If you take some time to read up on brainwashing and thought control you will see that this cannot occur if the child is in school all day and is focused on preparing for his/her SAT's playing sports with the local highschool, spending time with his/her parents, visiting with brothers and sisters, writing and calling them, going on trips into town, visiting colleges etc.  The child needs total isolation from outside influences and dependence on a single person or group.



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[Shadyacres]

I believe the majority of the programs today are structured to help the kids build up their self esteem, build family bonds and get them set on a healthy track.

...

Funny, that is EXACTLY what my mom believed 25 years ago, along with all the idiots who counseled her to put me in one of them.  The reason she believed this is simple, the program told her so.  Just like the ones that exist today will tell you this.  How many children will have to have their minds irreparably damaged before parents stop being so naive and gullible?  ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TAKE YOUR KID AWAY AND NOT LET YOU SEE THEM CANNOT BE TRUSTED!!!  Complete cult indoctrination can be accomplished in a reasonably short time, do not let anyone sequester your child, for any length of time.  Especially people who have a long history of cult behavior, or who work in an industry with a long history of cult behavior.

Geesh, Shady, you come across as very paranoid.  You cannot very easily be brainwashed or indoctrinated into a cult if you are busy preparing for your SATs, competing with other schools in sports, going on trips and talking to your family.  If you read up on brainwashing/cults you will see that the person needs to be totally isolated and dependent on another person or group of people.  You blow this stuff way out of proportion.

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Only in the beginning, the 'indoctrination phase'.  That is why that first month is always restricted, no contact with anyone.  They have had 30 years to fine tune their indoctrination and I imagine they are pretty good at it by now.  I think this is a perfect example of the old adage;  Parents should not wonder if they are being paranoid, they should wonder if they are being paranoid ENOUGH.  If you force your child into a "school" that turns out to be an abusive cult, it will have a negative effect on the rest of his/her life, and yours.  And I don't think you are qualified to say whether or not I am blowing "this stuff" out of proportion, since you have never been enrolled in one of these places.

[Whooter]

Only in the beginning, the 'indoctrination phase'.  That is why that first month is always restricted, no contact with anyone.  They have had 30 years to fine tune their indoctrination and I imagine they are pretty good at it by now.  I think this is a perfect example of the old adage;  Parents should not wonder if they are being paranoid, they should wonder if they are being paranoid ENOUGH.  If you force your child into a "school" that turns out to be an abusive cult, it will have a negative effect on the rest of his/her life, and yours.  And I don't think you are qualified to say whether or not I am blowing "this stuff" out of proportion, since you have never been enrolled in one of these places.

Shady, I dont think anyone is going to buy into the (fast food/ drive through) 30 day brainwashing theory.  Your experience is limited to one program and there are hundreds of different models and programs out there.  If you look into what is required to brainwash someone and the definition of a cult you will quickly realize that if a child is competing in sports with local highschools, going to school all day, preparing for their SAT's, visiting colleges, writing to friends and family, going into town on weekends etc. that this environment cannot support brainwashing or fit the definition of a cult.  The conditions dont exist for these theories to take hold, Shady.

It appears that you are trying to compare your experience to programs today and various other models.  Not all programs are the same.  We need to focus on those programs which are not succeeding in helping kids or have a high level of abuse and expose them.  Lying to parents telling them that all programs are the same and that they brainwash kids and are cults isnt going to help anyone or increase your credibility any.  You come across as uniformed.



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[Awake]

Whooter I know you decided to skip out of your program. What about it was hard for you specifically?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&hilit=education+about+forced+therapy

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[Anne Bonney]

Shady, I dont think anyone is going to buy into the (fast food/ drive through) 30 day brainwashing theory.

You really should do some research on brainwashing.  It doesn't take long at all.  Especially is such an isolated environment.

 Your experience is limited to one program and there are hundreds of different models and programs out there.

You keep saying that, but most of the use the same "treatment" models.

If you look into what is required to brainwash someone and the definition of a cult you will quickly realize that if a child is competing in sports with local highschools, going to school all day, preparing for their SAT's, visiting colleges, writing to friends and family, going into town on weekends etc. that this environment cannot support brainwashing or fit the definition of a cult.  The conditions dont exist for these theories to take hold, Shady.

And you don't get to do any of those things in programs.

It appears that you are trying to compare your experience to programs today and various other models.  Not all programs are the same.

Not exactly the same, but most use the same techniques.  I didn't think anything could be worse than Straight then I started reading about Tranquility Bay, WWASPS etc.

You come across as uniformed.

 :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:


Yeah, it's HER that's uninformed.  The one who has been on the inside.  You, who've never been exposed to this kind of "treatment" are the expert.   :twofinger:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

[heretik]

Only in the beginning, the 'indoctrination phase'.  That is why that first month is always restricted, no contact with anyone.  They have had 30 years to fine tune their indoctrination and I imagine they are pretty good at it by now.  I think this is a perfect example of the old adage;  Parents should not wonder if they are being paranoid, they should wonder if they are being paranoid ENOUGH.  If you force your child into a "school" that turns out to be an abusive cult, it will have a negative effect on the rest of his/her life, and yours.  And I don't think you are qualified to say whether or not I am blowing "this stuff" out of proportion, since you have never been enrolled in one of these places.

Shady, I dont think anyone is going to buy into the (fast food/ drive through) 30 day brainwashing theory.  Your experience is limited to one program and there are hundreds of different models and programs out there.  If you look into what is required to brainwash someone and the definition of a cult you will quickly realize that if a child is competing in sports with local highschools, going to school all day, preparing for their SAT's, visiting colleges, writing to friends and family, going into town on weekends etc. that this environment cannot support brainwashing or fit the definition of a cult.  The conditions dont exist for these theories to take hold, Shady.

This is exactly what I am talking about Whooter, your disconnection to the actual reality. We are talking about children 13-17 in trouble (?) being admitted into a program (first day) and told everything they were used to will change, now.

Next.....

Where does Whooter go, to some happy go lucky H.S., commemorating positive experiences of SAT's, visiting colleges, competing in sports ect... This is your perverse pleasure coming through again. You enjoy playing the fool here and yet you cry foul when called on it.

It appears that you are trying to compare your experience to programs today and various other models.  Not all programs are the same.  We need to focus on those programs which are not succeeding in helping kids or have a high level of abuse and expose them.  Lying to parents telling them that all programs are the same and that they brainwash kids and are cults isnt going to help anyone or increase your credibility any.  You come across as uniformed.

.......and you really believe the audience here looks to you for credibility.



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