Cataloging TheWho/John Reuben's Lies

[DannyB II]

Only because I didn't have those problems before I was sent off. I was doing even what you refer to as "normal" behavior for a teen. And, as I've said countless times before, the people I was hanging around with at the time I was sent away all turned out just fine, even though they were doing "worse" things than I was and Straight albut guaranteed my parents that those kids would be deadinsaneorinjail because they didn't have the "benefit" of Straight. The serious problems only arose after I got out and have been diagnosed as the result of PTSD from what Straight did to me.

Many times doctors can be wrong as we all well know here on fornits.  Their diagnosis can be way off.  If you had stayed home you could have been much worse off than your friends.  I am not sure I buy all of that on the surface Anne.

Doesn't matter if you believe it or not.  It's what happened and damned if I've got another explanation.  I honestly tried for years, before getting help, to figure out why all my friends who, were supposed to be all fucked up by now, were doing fine and I was struggling so hard.  It drove me nuts!  See.....I was one of those that, after two years of complete isolation from the outside world combined with all the abuses that have been well documented (even you have agreed Straight was pretty bad because you keep talking about how programs have come so far since then), succumbed to the brainwashing and believed what Straight taught me.  I believed what they told me about myself.  But I couldn't figure out the cognitive dissonance between what they taught me to believe, and that the reality I was seeing was the opposite.   They each had all had they're different ways, but they were basically pretty decent, well adjusted people.  No arrests, no suicides, nobody in a psyche ward.....they were all pretty much living their lives.   When I started actively looking into why reality was so different than what Straight taught and wanted me to be (which, coincidentally had quite a bit in common with AA/NA etc., but we'll save that for another thread), I started to heal.  I had no clue how to live life in reality.....All I knew was what Straight and/or AA taught me and since reality doesn't work that way, I had to start start from behind.  They had denied me an important part of my adolescence and had delayed and distorted the process of learning and growing normally......as my peers in high school were allowed to do.  Then the light bulb went off.  I started reading and researching and it all started to begin to make some sense.  By then, most of my latter childhood was gone and replaced with some weird podlife.

It still took years until I was fully able to understand the depth and complexities of what they did and how they accomplished it.  I thank God for the people I met after Straight.   I never would have made it through without them.  My father was so stuck to the core beliefs of Straight, which was taking the "tough love" concept and putting it on steroids.  For the record, the actual group, "Tough Love", denounced Straight for it's abusive ways, http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/37 ... ?print=all (great article, btw) .  There's a culture to this.....an entire movement.  It's not just "this program" or "that one".  It's the whole of it.  It's the dependence, the hypocrisy, the self doubt, the surrender of 'self', the replacement of individual instinct and feelings and values with 'the group's'.  It's insidious it's gotten so far into society that it becomes OK to treat anyone like this, let alone our kids.


Anne, I think your saying it loud and clear you allowed yourself to be swallowed up by Straight, AA and NA. Some of us did not so we therefore have a different reality. Stop putting all of us in a "cookie cutter" analogy.
This has made you very angry. I guess if I was you I would be very angry, want to blame all programs for my abuses.
I never felt dependence on Elan, AA or NA (never trusted any organization) I have always had the ability to listen and not become attached.
I never surrendered self, had self doubt or any of the feeling your talking about for any length of time.
I am not saying I am better then you nor want to be, I am just saying what I have always been saying. There are two different realities people have from programs I think, neither of our experiences is more righteous then the other.

Anyway....there's so much more to what's done to us than someone like you would ever begin to be able to understand and combined with the emotional investment and motivation you must feel in order to soothe yourself, I guess you have no choice but to defend this kind of crap.  You need a way to rationalize and justify what you did.  You need to deny that what you did as a parent, may have irreparably injured your child's development.   If you didn't, it would become all to real to you what really happened to your child while in the custody of the people you sent "her" to.

WoW.........how long has this been up your ass.
 

[Anne Bonney]

No my roommate got plenty of pain killers from many different sources and he would give them to me on occasion.  He never saw a doctor for them.

Yes, but at least the origination is from a  qualified Doctor.  Once it's in the patient's hands, they can either take it or sell it, but the Doctor is giving his qualified, good faith diagnosis with the credentialed education he's received in that field......yet...any asshole can call themselves an LGAT "therapist" or whatever the fuck other bullshit, non-accredited title they come up with for themselves....they have zero business doing what they're doing.  They're unqualified and, it appears, quite a few become intoxicated with the absolute power they end up having over people.

But either way my point is that LGATs can be helpful or harmful depending on how they are constructed and who is running them.

You have nothing to back that up and there's plenty to suggest it, at the very least, isn't something that should be practiced or treated as any type if counseling or therapy (thus, subjecting them to true regulation, not that it does any good, yet.  No teeth, but at least it woudl be a start & get something 'on the books' to protect these kids).  As it is now, any asshole can start a program.  They don't really need much, mainly the capital to start it up.  It varies from state to state, which is why, IIRCA, why there are a lot in Montana and Utah.  A qualified Dr. has to at least give a good faith diagnosis and follow the hippocratic oath.  Primum Non Nocere.  And the person is protected, however much, by the Patients Bill of Rights.  And would have access to report abuse.   And they're parents would be conditioned to not believe them.  People who run LGATs really don't have to account to anyone and there is no real standard of care....they follow what's "worked" so far......break 'em and "build" 'em, skirt the law, spin the bad press & if all else fails, close up shop and start all over again.  You guys just dont' realize how much damage the 'breaking' does.

[Whooter]

Yes, but at least the origination is from a  qualified Doctor.  Once it's in the patient's hands, they can either take it or sell it, but the Doctor is giving his qualified, good faith diagnosis with the credentialed education he's received in that field......yet...any asshole can call themselves an LGAT "therapist" or whatever the fuck other bullshit, non-accredited title they come up with for themselves....they have zero business doing what they're doing.  They're unqualified and, it appears, quite a few become intoxicated with the absolute power they end up having over people.

Right, but it seems we both agree that the pain killers can be dispensed by any ole ass hole to the end user (some college kid).  That was my original point, there is no control over how many is dispensed to the kid in the dorm room.

You have nothing to back that up and there's plenty to suggest it, at the very least, isn't something that should be practiced or treated as any type if counseling or therapy (thus, subjecting them to true regulation, not that it does any good, yet.  No teeth, but at least it woudl be a start & get something 'on the books' to protect these kids).  As it is now, any asshole can start a program.  They don't really need much, mainly the capital to start it up.  It varies from state to state, which is why, IIRCA, why there are a lot in Montana and Utah.  A qualified Dr. has to at least give a good faith diagnosis and follow the hippocratic oath.  Primum Non Nocere.  And the person is protected, however much, by the Patients Bill of Rights.  And would have access to report abuse.   And they're parents would be conditioned to not believe them.  People who run LGATs really don't have to account to anyone and there is no real standard of care....they follow what's "worked" so far......break 'em and "build" 'em, skirt the law, spin the bad press & if all else fails, close up shop and start all over again.  You guys just dont' realize how much damage the 'breaking' does.

Geesh, I think we agree here somewhat.  They dont have to account to anyone and that is why the LGATs can vary so much (i.e. no regulation, no qualified doctor).  In one program they can be short and simple and in another they can last 3 days and be extremely abusive.

I have some experience in seeing how simple some of these LGATs can be when used as team building for corporations and I have seen how they are used in some of these programs as described by some of the stories I have read here on fornits.  I think we can both agree that it is dangerous to have this go unregulated but as far as tagging all LGATs as abusive it just cant be done because we would have to look at each one individually to see how they are constructed.



...

[Anonymous]

Did anyone notice that the NYC marathon was on Sunday ans Whooter was absent for its entirety?  

Whooter was up early, posting at 4am on a Sunday.  Kinda unusual, no?  Then he stopped posting until 2:30pm.  The marathon began at 8:30am and Whooter's 4 hour time put kim at the finish line at 12:30.  Then he was back posting again at 2:30pm from the hotel.

Many of us discussed this privately before the race and we all agreed that if Whooter was absent during those hours, it would be the final proof (if you needed any more) that he is John Reuben.  I rightly predicted he would post very early on the day of the race and begin posting again several hours after, which he did.  

During the race a few items known to provoke Whooter into immediate resposes were posted as bait and he did not respond to them until 2:30pm when he went and responded to all of them.

So, just in case you were still on the fence about it, John Reuben posts here under the handle "Whooter."

[Pile of Dead Kids]

There's no fucking way that this clown can run a marathon in four hours.

[Whooter]

Did anyone notice that the NYC marathon was on Sunday ans Whooter was absent for its entirety?  

Whooter was up early, posting at 4am on a Sunday.  Kinda unusual, no?  Then he stopped posting until 2:30pm.  The marathon began at 8:30am and Whooter's 4 hour time put kim at the finish line at 12:30.  Then he was back posting again at 2:30pm from the hotel.

Many of us discussed this privately before the race and we all agreed that if Whooter was absent during those hours, it would be the final proof (if you needed any more) that he is John Reuben.  I rightly predicted he would post very early on the day of the race and begin posting again several hours after, which he did.  

During the race a few items known to provoke Whooter into immediate resposes were posted as bait and he did not respond to them until 2:30pm when he went and responded to all of them.

So, just in case you were still on the fence about it, John Reuben posts here under the handle "Whooter."

4am!  I dont remember getting up that early.  So I went back and took a look at my postings for the 7th.
Link


Times I posted here on fornits (Eastern Standard Time):

9:08,9:23,9:49,10:05,10:23,10:43,11:08,11:14,11:31,11:35,12:55,15:26,15:41,16:15,17:31,19:48,19:55,20:48,22:17

(You stated the marathon started at 8:30am so I marked the marathon times Reuben was running in Red)

Gap between posts (in minutes):
15,26,16,18,20,25,6,17,4,80,151,15,34,76,137,7,53,89

Largest gap was 151 minutes (2 hours, 31 minutes) which occurred between 12:55 pm and 3:41 pm.



...

[RobertBruce]

So who on your staff posted for you while you were running?

[psy]

I give psy permission to check my email address and compare it to the one you posted.  Its not mine.  Like you said it belongs to this Reuben guy.  Plus John Reuben wouldnt be signing his emails as  "TheWho" from his place of business to prospective parents who inquire.  Think about it.  Someone has been pulling your leg.

To be fair.  From what I know you about you, you have an IT staff. One which could easily set up proxies.  You would give them dates and where you would want to be.  They would set up proxy servers in such locations...  could even use home lines.  Then they would configure your browser and you can post on Fornits.com from anywhere, appearing to be at home, or wherever.

[Whooter]

I give psy permission to check my email address and compare it to the one you posted.  Its not mine.  Like you said it belongs to this Reuben guy.  Plus John Reuben wouldnt be signing his emails as  "TheWho" from his place of business to prospective parents who inquire.  Think about it.  Someone has been pulling your leg.

To be fair.  From what I know you about you, you have an IT staff. One which could easily set up proxies.  You would give them dates and where you would want to be.  They would set up proxy servers in such locations...  could even use home lines.  Then they would configure your browser and you can post on Fornits.com from anywhere, appearing to be at home, or wherever.

Wow, psy, thats a stretch even for you.  I think the fairy tale is over for Lenny and Squiggy (Bruce and DJ).  All those years of their lives wasted on all those threads they built in that guys honor.  They are not going to let go so easily and I understand that, it makes them look foolish either way.  I am sure there will also be some people who will maintain a "white knuckle" grip on the thought that I am still this guy.  
But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy (all the strings have been cut) just like all the other names that people linked me to in the past here on fornits.



...

[RobertBruce]

But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy

Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:

1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.

2. How you know such intimate details concerning his son being locked up.

3. Why you lied about having a son.

4. Your fiduciary interest in the TTI.

5. Why you by your own admission have such a similar back ground as John Reuben.

Nothing's been explained away or cut Whootie. Nothing. The evidence against you is overwhelming. Meanwhile.....

Your claims concerning.......


1. I am Dysufunction Junction.

2. I am concerned parent.

3. I am Ajax13.

4. I am every guest poster who hurt your feelings.

5. I am you.

6. my time locked up in HLA.


7. my heterosexuality.

8. DJ's education.

9. DJ's resume.

10. Anne's sexual history.

The list goes on and on, yet somehow each and every one of your claims has never once been backed up, never been supported by the least amount of evidence, never been verified, and on several you've already been proven wrong. Despite that you still somehow cling to these delusions based on nothing. Talk about white knuckle grip Whootie, it might be time to accept you were proven wrong long ago. It's not like I didn't tell you so.

[Whooter]

Ha,Ha,Ha Wow your pissed, Bruce, you are not taking this too well.  Sorry that it is over for you and you blew the last chance you had for a civil conversation.  Now that everyone can see that I am not this Reuben guy you will have to start figuring out how to have a conversation versus attacking people.  All those years wasted for you....shall we call you  Squiggy?  or 3 week Bruce?  lol



...

[Anne Bonney]

But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy

Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:

1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.

 I've never heard this before.  'Splains a lot though.  How did this piece of information come about?

4. Your fiduciary interest in the TTI.

Yeah, that was never really explained.  It was some bullshit like "we all have a fiduciary interest thru our insurance" or some other crap.

[Whooter]

But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy

Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:

1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.

 I've never heard this before.  'Splains a lot though.  How did this piece of information come about?

This came about when Bruce and Dysfunction Junction were posting as "Control Parent" and fabricated a PM saying that I wrote the email.  but it turned out they screwed up the date and I outed them. They put Reubens email on it,  I think Lenny screwed that one up.

One of the better days here on fornits.

Now Lenny and Squiggy are out of Business.  Sad day for them.



...

[Son Of Serbia]

But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy

Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:

1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.

 I've never heard this before.  'Splains a lot though.  How did this piece of information come about?

4. Your fiduciary interest in the TTI.

Yeah, that was never really explained.  It was some bullshit like "we all have a fiduciary interest thru our insurance" or some other crap.

It's fairly obvious to me that protecting his investment(s)is what motivates Whooter's
trolling activities here at fornits. Apparently, money is all John Reuben (Whooter) has.  
It's really sad to see how low someone will sink & what they'll do for even a little bit of money.  

Is all this anger and hurt you're causing really worth it Whooter? I know stupid question, because obviously it is worth it to you - but why?  Seriously Whooter, why does it bother you so much that people who were abused in programs post about it here at fornits?  If people want to share their experience online  hoping that someone will listen, or just wanting to tell the truth, or to lend their support to others, or to find closure, or whatever the reason is - then why the hell do you care? If you're not here trolling and antagonizing program survivors to protect your investment(s) Whooter, then why do you do it then?

[Anne Bonney]

But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy

Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:

1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.

 I've never heard this before.  'Splains a lot though.  How did this piece of information come about?

This came about when Bruce and Dysfunction Junction were posting as "Control Parent" and fabricated a PM saying that I wrote the email.  but it turned out they screwed up the date and I outed them. They put Reubens email on it,  I think Lenny screwed that one up.

One of the better days here on fornits.

Now Lenny and Squiggy are out of Business.  Sad day for them.

Yeah, I wasn't really asking you.