DHS, Mount Bachelor Academy Settle Case

[Whooter]

Even Aspen agrees with the decision to investigate MBA.  Based on the initial evidence DHS felt they had no choice but to close the facility down temporarily.  But after after they reviewed all the evidence they found out that they were wrong and jumped the gun.

Nowhere did they say anything even close to that.

Well actually they did.

Barney Lerten stated himself:  "Under the settlement, the state is withdrawing or modifying all of its orders and actions taken against the school,"

And that says nothing about jumping the gun or that they were wrong.  We know nothing of the settlement.  It could be that they withdrew the action(s) because the school shuttered it's doors and have agreed to not use any of the methods that were found to be abusive.

lol, It could be that the state couldnt substantiate any findings of abuse.  Read the whole article, the journalist who had a child in MBA, Aspens take on it and the DHS's take on it.

DHS backed off, plain and simple.  Again I dont expect you to accept this anymore than you would a positive study on the industry!!  lol  I am just putting out the facts for the readers to review.  Everyone gets to decide for themselves which is the beauty of the internet and open information.



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[Whooter]

I'm not too concerned over whether Barry Lerten is "aware" or not of whatever it is you seem to think he was.

What I find troublesome is your quoting Aspen press release material and claiming or insinuating that it is from an article written by a bona fide reporter who has certain standards of veracity in what he has authorship of.

When you claim, "The article goes further to say...," you are averring that what preceded your words as well as what comes after them ... is from the article. In both cases, that simply isn't true.

Since I tend to view the veracity of Aspen press releases as being somewhat less believable than assurances that the moon is made of green cheese, I find your false claims quite telling.

Barney Lerten stated himself:  "Under the settlement, the state is withdrawing or modifying all of its orders and actions taken against the school,"

But THAT was not what you quoted in the post under discussion. Curious that you omitted that part of our banter, eh? Well... here's your post again, to refresh everyone's memory. READ CAREFULLY, Whooter's being sneaky again:

What I like to do is get back to the latest information at hand.  A lot of things were said by DHS that they regret.  Here is the latest article on MBA and a statement:

Link

"DHS has agreed  to withdraw or modify all of its actions against MBA"

BECAUSE THEY CLOSED.

The article goes further to say:

The DHS’ withdrawal of its order suspending MBA’s license supports our position that they did not have justification for that order in the first place. The DHS has acknowledged with this settlement that in fact there was additional evidence no abuse had occurred.

[/list]

Check the link I provided.  I stand by what I posted, Ursus.  All the quotes I provided were taken from the article.



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[Anne Bonney]

lol, It could be that the state couldnt substantiate any findings of abuse.

It could be because of a number of things, so quit stating unequivocally that they "jumped the gun and found nothing wrong".

 

DHS backed off, plain and simple.

 

BECAUSE THE SCHOOL CLOSED IT'S DOORS AFTER ALL THE ABUSES WERE BROUGHT TO LIGHT

Again I dont expect you to accept this anymore than you would a positive study on the industry!!

As soon as you find one I'll be happy to at least read it.

 lol  I am just putting out the facts for the readers to review.

Now that one IS funny.  You putting "facts" out there.  :roflmao:

Everyone gets to decide for themselves which is the beauty of the internet and open information.

Except yours isn't "open".....it's an agenda that you twist everything to fit.

[Ursus]

I'm not too concerned over whether Barney Lerten is "aware" or not of whatever it is you seem to think he was.

What I find troublesome is your quoting Aspen press release material and claiming or insinuating that it is from an article written by a bona fide reporter who has certain standards of veracity in what he has authorship of.

When you claim, "The article goes further to say...," you are averring that what preceded your words as well as what comes after them ... is from the article. In both cases, that simply isn't true.

Since I tend to view the veracity of Aspen press releases as being somewhat less believable than assurances that the moon is made of green cheese, I find your false claims quite telling.

Barney Lerten stated himself:  "Under the settlement, the state is withdrawing or modifying all of its orders and actions taken against the school,"

Yes, but we weren't discussing what Barney Lerten said, now were we? We were discussing material that YOU claimed came from an article that Barney Lerten wrote, but which actually came from Aspen Ed's press release.

Tacking on some material from the article after the fact (chopped and out of context, as per usual) which really was written by Barney Lerten, and claiming it's the same thing, just won't cut it.

Here's the rest of Barney Lerten's sentence, which you somehow failed to include for context, emphasis added:

"Under the settlement, the state is withdrawing or modifying all of its orders and actions taken against the school, but says it still stands by its decision to investigate the facility, which had about 90 students and more than 75 staff as of early last year, with tuition of $6,400 a month."[/list]

[Whooter]

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Except yours isn't "open".....it's an agenda that you twist everything to fit.

Its perspective, Anne,  I dont see your information as being open either.  You have an agenda of painting the industry as harshly as you can and you close your eyes to anything that may shake your beliefs.



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[Whooter]

Yes, but we weren't discussing what Barry Lerten said, now were we? We were discussing material that YOU claimed came from an article that Barry Lerten wrote, but which actually came from Aspen Ed's press release.

Tacking on some material from the article after the fact (chopped and out of context, as per usual) which really was written by Barry Lerten, and claiming it's the same thing, just won't cut it.

Its all the same article, Ursus, the journalist comments, DHS's comments and Aspens comments.  I really dont understand what problem you have with my posts.  I have read then 3 or 4 times and my quotes come from Barry Lerten article.

Here's the rest of Barry Lerten's sentence, which you somehow failed to include for context, emphasis added:

"Under the settlement, the state is withdrawing or modifying all of its orders and actions taken against the school, but says it still stands by its decision to investigate the facility, which had about 90 students and more than 75 staff as of early last year, with tuition of $6,400 a month."[/list]

I addressed this earlier.  Aspen agrees also that the information that DHS had warranted an investigation, no one is disputing this.   DHS doesnt say it stands by it decision to shut the facility down though.  DHS has reversed its position.



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[Anne Bonney]

Yes, but we weren't discussing what Barry Lerten said, now were we? We were discussing material that YOU claimed came from an article that Barry Lerten wrote, but which actually came from Aspen Ed's press release.

Tacking on some material from the article after the fact (chopped and out of context, as per usual) which really was written by Barry Lerten, and claiming it's the same thing, just won't cut it.

Its all the same article, Ursus, the journalist comments, DHS's comments and Aspens comments.  I really dont understand what problem you have with my posts.  I have read then 3 or 4 times and my quotes come from Barry Lerten article.

The problem is that you present a press release from Aspen's CEO as something that the author of the article has written, or imply that DHS said it.  It's completely misleading and dishonest and you know it.

I addressed this earlier.  Aspen agrees also that the information that DHS had warranted an investigation, no one is disputing this.   DHS doesnt say it stands by it decision to shut the facility down though.  DHS has reversed its position.

No, it didn't reverse it's position.  It withdrew the action(s).  There's a difference and you know that too.

[Whooter]

The problem is that you present a press release from Aspen's CEO as something that the author of the article has written, or imply that DHS said it.  It's completely misleading and dishonest and you know it.

But the press releases from DHS and Aspen are part of the article.  If we quoted the journalist who had a child there or comments from the people he interviewed this would not be his words either.  The author quoted these press releases himself.

I dont see it as misleading at all.  I provided the link to support my thoughts.



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[Ursus]

Check the link I provided.  I stand by what I posted, Ursus.  All the quotes I provided were taken from the article.

Your "standing by what you posted" apparently doesn't mean much. The material you quoted came from the Aspen Ed Statement accompanying the article. Here's that statement again; I've highlighted the portions that you claim came from the article itself:

A statement from Phil Herschman, President of Aspen Education Group, on behalf of Mount Bachelor Academy:

We are pleased that the ongoing legal dispute between Mount Bachelor Academy (MBA) and the State of Oregon Department of Human Services (DHS) has finally been satisfactorily resolved. The DHS has agreed to withdraw or modify all of its actions against MBA and MBA’s former director. The DHS’ withdrawal of its order suspending MBA’s license supports our position that they did not have justification for that order in the first place. The DHS has acknowledged with this settlement that in fact there was additional evidence no abuse had occurred.

As we have repeatedly stated throughout this process, our fundamental disagreements with the DHS' original allegations and consequent actions were strong and deep. We had collected abundant evidence that disproved those allegations, particularly the most egregious ones.

Despite the tragic circumstances of Mount Bachelor’s closure, we hope to open a new, even more successful school on the MBA campus in the future, and wish to publicly thank our skilled and dedicated employees who touched the lives of thousands of troubled teens for more than two decades at MBA, and the loyal alumni and families who steadfastly supported us.[/list]

After having had that pointed out to you, you went back to the article, and picked out some sentence that Barney Lerten actually did write (even though he was just paraphrasing the Aspen Ed statement), chopped off all the parts that didn't fit with your agenda, and tried to pass it off as the same thing. Here is the paragraph from the article that you used, said portion highlighted:

"Under the settlement, the state is withdrawing or modifying all of its orders and actions taken against the school, but says it still stands by its decision to investigate the facility, which had about 90 students and more than 75 staff as of early last year, with tuition of $6,400 a month."[/list]

I have read then 3 or 4 times and my quotes come from Barry Lerten article.

They came from material which accompanied Barney Lerten's article, but they were not from the actual article itself. To be quite specific as to authorship: the material you originally quoted was not written by Barney Lerten.

[Whooter]

Check the link I provided.  I stand by what I posted, Ursus.  All the quotes I provided were taken from the article.

Your "standing by what you posted" apparently doesn't mean much. The material you quoted came from the Aspen Ed Statement accompanying the article. Here's that statement again; I've highlighted the portions that you claim came from the article itself:

A statement from Phil Herschman, President of Aspen Education Group, on behalf of Mount Bachelor Academy:

We are pleased that the ongoing legal dispute between Mount Bachelor Academy (MBA) and the State of Oregon Department of Human Services (DHS) has finally been satisfactorily resolved. The DHS has agreed to withdraw or modify all of its actions against MBA and MBA’s former director. The DHS’ withdrawal of its order suspending MBA’s license supports our position that they did not have justification for that order in the first place. The DHS has acknowledged with this settlement that in fact there was additional evidence no abuse had occurred.

As we have repeatedly stated throughout this process, our fundamental disagreements with the DHS' original allegations and consequent actions were strong and deep. We had collected abundant evidence that disproved those allegations, particularly the most egregious ones.

Despite the tragic circumstances of Mount Bachelor’s closure, we hope to open a new, even more successful school on the MBA campus in the future, and wish to publicly thank our skilled and dedicated employees who touched the lives of thousands of troubled teens for more than two decades at MBA, and the loyal alumni and families who steadfastly supported us.[/list]

After having had that pointed out to you, you went back to the article, and picked out some sentence that Barry Lerten actually did write (even though he was just paraphrasing the Aspen Ed statement), chopped off all the parts that didn't fit with your agenda, and tried to pass it off as the same thing. Here is the paragraph from the article that you used, said portion highlighted:

"Under the settlement, the state is withdrawing or modifying all of its orders and actions taken against the school, but says it still stands by its decision to investigate the facility, which had about 90 students and more than 75 staff as of early last year, with tuition of $6,400 a month."[/list]

I have read then 3 or 4 times and my quotes come from Barry Lerten article.

They came from material which accompanied Barry Lerten's article, but they were not from the actual article itself. To be quite specific as to authorship: the material you quoted was not written by Barry Lerten.

I define the article as the "whole piece" from beginning to end including the statements from DHS, the journalist, parents and Aspen.  They were not just added on to the article they were part of it because Barry Lerten referenced the statements from Aspen, and DHS himself.
The whole article belongs to Barry Lerten, some of which are his own words, other parts of it were words from happy parents, still others were from Aspen and DHS.  I dont see any of this as mis leading.





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[Anne Bonney]

I define the article as the "whole piece" from beginning to end including the statements from DHS, the journalist, parents and Aspen.  They were not just added on to the article they were part of it because Barry Lerten referenced the statements from Aspen, and DHS himself.
The whole article belongs to Barry Lerten, some of which are his own words, other parts of it were words from happy parents, still others were from Aspen and DHS. I dont see any of this as mis leading.

Yes you do.  You know full well what you're doing.  You just won't ever admit to it.

Trying to pass off a press release by Aspen's CEO as being written by either the author of the article or DHS is intentionally misleading and intellectually dishonest.

[Whooter]

Yes you do.  You know full well what you're doing.  You just won't ever admit to it.

Trying to pass off a press release by Aspen's CEO as being written by either the author of the article or DHS is intentionally misleading and intellectually dishonest.

lol, The article was about MBA and DHS and Aspen and the families it affected.  They were all part of the article.  The DHS had a press release and so did Aspen.  The Journalist had her say as did some of the parents.  The author pulled it all together.

Any part of the article can be quoted and used as reference, plus I provided a link so there was no attempt to be misleading.

I am beginning to think you want to leave out what Aspen said and keep the DHS press release as reference for the article.



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[heretik]

So Whooter lets say your right here, congratulations. I can just see you now genuflecting in front of your computer to your almighty Aspen, saying "I got them this time, look at me I'm worthy" as Phil Herschman, President of Aspen Education Group throws you your 30 bits to symbolize your significance.

Whooter once again we have to revert back back to your inability to recognize that children are being hurt here, MBA actually hurt children. They did not see fit to keep our children out of harms way. You know for a fact that "Lifesteps" being facilitated by inexperienced personal can only lead to complications which can have devastating psychological effects. You know this, we can all agree on this.
I am going to be a bit unprofessional here and go out on a line and say I bet there were some mothers and fathers on the investiagtion team from (DHS), we know there were. I'm sure some of their maternalistic/paternalistic emotions were involved.  As a rational mother or father (while working for DHS) investigating apparent abuses of such outlandish behavior conducted because you are forced through peer pressure and with threats of retaliation by staff, you would be mortified. So thank god the initial reaction to suspend operations happened and the subsequent closure. Now we can all agree on this, right. DHS on a daily bases deals with abuses perpetrated on children, I think we all can agree they know how to do their job.
Now once the case gets handed over to the lawyers and they start to perform their ritual of two stepping, well all the smoke generated by this friction should not blind us to the reasons they were dancing in the first place. Children were abused, Whooter we can all agree on this.
As you say all the time to Anne and Ursus their are many programs out there they can not be all bad, well you may be right. This one (MBA) was. MBA wasn't selected out of a pool to be persecuted, they brought a investigation upon themselves. Professionals were sent out to perform their jobs, they did over a period of time and they put forth their results. What difference does it make what the lawyers worked out in a settlement. We all know that pales in comparison to the abuse kids are going through. Whooter you would really get this, if you gave a shit.
Samara, Anne, Ursus, DJ and others understand you more then you understand yourself. I don't believe in all good consciousness you are aware of the depth of pain children have endured while in these programs nor do I believe you want to. Picture this, our daughters at 14 being dressed up as whores made to sit on someones lap and gyrate all the while saying she is a no good slut. Have you got that pic in your head, I fucking almost break down every time I picture it or read it. Who the fuck do they think they are.
I told you before your sins you are committing here, you will have to answer for them at some point. Hopefully your God will show mercy.
You are not a person I could ever like, you do not make that possible.

[Ursus]

Yes you do.  You know full well what you're doing.  You just won't ever admit to it.

Trying to pass off a press release by Aspen's CEO as being written by either the author of the article or DHS is intentionally misleading and intellectually dishonest.

lol, The article was about MBA and DHS and Aspen and the families it affected.  They were all part of the article.  The DHS had a press release and so did Aspen.  The Journalist had her say as did some of the parents.  The author pulled it all together.

They are all part of the article package, as it was published on that particular occasion, and by KTVZ.com. Portions of that package, save the core article by Barney Lerten, may also be officially published elsewhere.

The statement by Phil Herschman, President of Aspen Education Group, on behalf of Mount Bachelor Academy, and published as part of that package, represents certain vested interests and a particular POV, which no one (save you, perhaps) would ever possibly attempt to pass off as an objective one.

Similar can be said for the statement by Erinn Kelley-Siel, Director of Children, Adults and Families at Oregon Department of Human Services (DHS), also published as part of that package, although in this case the vested interests lie not with the continued existence of Mount Bachelor Academy or its demise, but with the safety and welfare of its students which, by law and by the very type of governmental organization it is, DHS is beholden to prioritize.

And finally, yes, reporter Barney Lerten tries to pull it all together in the core article, presumably as objectively as possible, as that is part of what one does or is expected to do as a reporter.

These three parts, while all part of the same article package, are authored by three very different individuals or organizations with very different aims, vested interests and standards of objectivity. To try to pass any of these sections off as having been authored by another IS misrepresentation and fraudulent attribution.

Tell me, Whooter, when you see that Aspen press release on other websites, does it carry the byline of Barney Lerten?  

Any part of the article can be quoted and used as reference, plus I provided a link so there was no attempt to be misleading.

Yes, of course any part of the article can be quoted and used as reference, but your deceptive means of quoting and presenting what you quoted WERE not only misleading but flat out dishonest. Your refusal to even acknowledge this, after several pages of this conversation, indicates to me that your deception may even have been deliberate.

[Whooter]

Yes you do.  You know full well what you're doing.  You just won't ever admit to it.

Trying to pass off a press release by Aspen's CEO as being written by either the author of the article or DHS is intentionally misleading and intellectually dishonest.

lol, The article was about MBA and DHS and Aspen and the families it affected.  They were all part of the article.  The DHS had a press release and so did Aspen.  The Journalist had her say as did some of the parents.  The author pulled it all together.

They are all part of the article package, as it was published on that particular occasion, and by KTVZ.com.

But the statement from Phil Herschman, President of Aspen Education Group, on behalf of Mount Bachelor Academy, represents certain vested interests and a particular POV, which no one (save you, perhaps) would ever possibly attempt to pass off as an objective one.

Similarly for the statement by Erinn Kelley-Siel, Director of Children, Adults and Families at Oregon Department of Human Services (DHS), although in this case the vested interests lie not with the continued existence of Mount Bachelor Academy or its demise, but with the safety and welfare of its students which, by law and by the very type of governmental organization it is, DHS is beholden to prioritize.

And finally, yes, reporter Barney Lerten tries to pull it all together, presumably as objectively as possible.

These three parts, while all part of the same article package, are authored by three very different individuals or organizations with very different aims, vested interests and standards of objectivity. To try to pass any of these sections off as having been authored by another IS misrepresentation and fraudulent attribution.

Tell me, Whooter, when you see that Aspen press release on Aspen's website, does it carry the byline of Barney Lerten?  

Any part of the article can be quoted and used as reference, plus I provided a link so there was no attempt to be misleading.

Yes, of course any part of the article can be quoted and used as reference, but your deceptive means of quoting and presenting what you quoted WERE not only misleading but examples of fraudulent attribution.

Ursus you have had a problem with me posting in this thread from the beginning.  You didnt like the comment by the Journalist which was in the body of the article and it gave you heart burn for some unknown reason.  Now you are trying to imply that I was quoting Barney Lerten as saying what Aspens statement was.  I did no such thing.

When you stated:

Similarly for the statement by Erinn Kelley-Siel, Director of Children, Adults and Families at Oregon Department of Human Services (DHS), although in this case the vested interests lie not with the continued existence of Mount Bachelor Academy or its demise, but with the safety and welfare of its students which, by law and by the very type of governmental organization it is, DHS is beholden to prioritize.

You need to also consider that Erinn Kelley-Siel is trying to save her own job and her statement is damage control for jumping the gun and shutting down MBA.  She has an agenda which is stronger than Aspens.  She choose her words carefully to make it seem like she didnt screw up.  She never said her shutting down of MBA was justified, only that the investigation was and Aspen agrees with her on this point.



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