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Offline Froderik

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More Muslim Media Bullshit
« on: October 21, 2010, 12:55:59 PM »
Welcome to the brainwashed states of America:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20 ... rks-on-fox

 :fuckoff:  :fuckoff:  :fuckoff:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 11:32:00 AM by Froderik »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 01:09:34 PM »
I agree it was a stupid move to fire him for the comments, but I just don't think we all need to panic every time we see someone that's dressed in "Muslim garb"?
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Offline BuzzKill

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 05:07:10 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
. . . but I just don't think we all need to panic every time we see someone that's dressed in "Muslim garb"?

He didn't say anyone should - not even close.

Here's his response to the firing:

JUAN WILLIAMS: I Was Fired for Telling the Truth

By Juan Williams

Published October 21, 2010 | FoxNews.com

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Yesterday NPR fired me for telling the truth. The truth is that I worry when I am getting on an airplane and see people dressed in garb that identifies them first and foremost as Muslims.

This is not a bigoted statement. It is a statement of my feelings, my fears after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 by radical Muslims. In a debate with Bill O’Reilly I revealed my fears to set up the case for not making rash judgments about people of any faith. I pointed out that the Atlanta Olympic bomber --  as well as Timothy McVeigh and the people who protest against gay rights at military funerals -- are Christians but we journalists don’t identify them by their religion.

And I made it clear that all Americans have to be careful not to let fears lead to the violation of anyone’s constitutional rights, be it to build a mosque, carry the Koran or drive a New York cab without the fear of having your throat slashed. Bill and I argued after I said he has to take care in the way he talks about the 9/11 attacks so as not to provoke bigotry.

This was an honest, sensitive debate hosted by O’Reilly. At the start of the debate Bill invited me, challenged me to tell him where he was wrong for stating the fact that “Muslims killed us there,” in the 9/11 attacks. He made that initial statement on the ABC program, "The View," which caused some of the co-hosts to walk off the set. They did not return until O’Reilly apologized for not being clear that he did not mean the country was attacked by all Muslims but by extremist radical Muslims.

I took Bill’s challenge and began by saying that political correctness can cause people to become so paralyzed that they don’t deal with reality. And the fact is that it was a group of Muslims who attacked the U.S. I added that radicalism has continued to pose a threat to the United States and much of the world. That threat was expressed in court last week by the unsuccessful Times Square bomber who bragged that he was just one of the first engaged in a “Muslim War” against the United States. -- There is no doubt that there's a real war and people are trying to kill us.

Mary Katharine Ham, a conservative writer, joined the debate to say that it is important to make the distinction between moderate and extreme Islam for conservatives who support the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq on the premise that the U.S. can build up moderate elements in those countries and push out the extremists. I later added that we don’t want anyone attacked on American streets because “they heard rhetoric from Bill O’Reilly and they act crazy.” Bill agreed and said the man who slashed the cabby was a “nut” and so was the Florida pastor who wanted to burn the Koran.

My point in recounting this debate is to show this was in the best American tradition of a fair, full-throated and honest discourse about the issues of the day. -- There was no bigotry, no crude provocation, no support for anti-Muslim sentiments of any kind.

Two days later, Ellen Weiss, my boss at NPR called to say I had crossed the line, essentially accusing me of bigotry. She took the admission of my visceral fear of people dressed in Muslim garb at the airport as evidence that I am a bigot. She said there are people who wear Muslim garb to work at NPR and they are offended by my comments. She never suggested that I had discriminated against anyone. Instead she continued to ask me what did I mean and I told her I said what I meant. Then she said she did not sense remorse from me. I said I made an honest statement. She informed me that I had violated NPR’s values for editorial commentary and she was terminating my contract as a news analyst.

I pointed out that I had not made my comments on NPR. She asked if I would have said the same thing on NPR. I said yes, because in keeping with my values I will tell people the truth about feelings and opinions.

I asked why she would fire me without speaking to me face to face and she said there was nothing I could say to change her mind, the decision had been confirmed above her, and there was no point to meeting in person. To say the least this is a chilling assault on free speech. The critical importance of honest journalism and a free flowing, respectful national conversation needs to be had in our country. But it is being buried as collateral damage in a war whose battles include political correctness and ideological orthodoxy.

I say an ideological battle because my comments on "The O’Reilly Factor" are being distorted by the self-righteous ideological, left-wing leadership at NPR. They are taking bits and pieces of what I said to go after me for daring to have a conversation with leading conservative thinkers. They loathe the fact that I appear on Fox News. They don’t notice that I am challenging Bill O’Reilly and trading ideas with Sean Hannity. In their hubris they think by talking with O’Reilly or Hannity I am lending them legitimacy. Believe me, Bill O’Reilly (and Sean, too) is a major force in American culture and politics whether or not I appear on his show.

Years ago NPR tried to stop me from going on "The Factor." When I refused they insisted that I not identify myself as an NPR journalist. I asked them if they thought people did not know where I appeared on the air as a daily talk show host, national correspondent and news analyst. They refused to budge.

This self-reverential attitude was on display several years ago when NPR asked me to help them get an interview with President George W. Bush. I have longstanding relationships with some of the key players in his White House due to my years as a political writer at The Washington Post. When I got the interview some in management expressed anger that in the course of the interview I said to the president that Americans pray for him but don’t understand some of his actions. They said it was wrong to say Americans pray for him.

Later on the 50th anniversary of the Little Rock crisis President Bush offered to do an NPR interview with me about race relations in America. NPR management refused to take the interview on the grounds that the White House offered it to me and not their other correspondents and hosts. One NPR executive implied I was in the administration’s pocket, which is a joke, and there was no other reason to offer me the interview. Gee, I guess NPR news executives never read my bestselling history of the civil rights movement “Eyes on the Prize – America’s Civil Rights Years,” or my highly acclaimed biography “Thurgood Marshall –American Revolutionary.” I guess they never noticed that "ENOUGH," my last book on the state of black leadership in America, found a place on the New York Times bestseller list.

This all led to NPR demanding that I either agree to let them control my appearances on Fox News and my writings or sign a new contract that removed me from their staff but allowed me to continue working as a news analyst with an office at NPR. The idea was that they would be insulated against anything I said or wrote outside of NPR because they could say that I was not a staff member. What happened is that they immediately began to cut my salary and diminish my on-air role. This week when I pointed out that they had forced me to sign a contract that gave them distance from my commentary outside of NPR I was cut off, ignored and fired.

And now they have used an honest statement of feeling as the basis for a charge of bigotry to create a basis for firing me. Well, now that I no longer work for NPR let me give you my opinion. This is an outrageous violation of journalistic standards and ethics by management that has no use for a diversity of opinion, ideas or a diversity of staff (I was the only black male on the air). This is evidence of one-party rule and one sided thinking at NPR that leads to enforced ideology, speech and writing. It leads to people, especially journalists, being sent to the gulag for raising the wrong questions and displaying independence of thought.

Daniel Schorr, my fellow NPR commentator who died earlier this year, used to talk about the initial shock of finding himself on President Nixon’s enemies list. I can only imagine Dan’s revulsion to realize that today NPR treats a journalist who has worked for them for ten years with less regard, less respect for the value of independence of thought and embrace of real debate across political lines, than Nixon ever displayed.
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Offline Froderik

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 05:11:19 PM »
In Re to Anne: I don't get on aeroplanes these days. Haven't flown in over 10 years. But I certainly won't blame someone for FREAKING in that situation. Call me crazy, but I don't see tolerance and such as being all that beneficial in today's political climate. Better safe than sorry.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 05:52:48 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"
Better safe than sorry.

I'm really surprised to hear you say that.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 05:54:19 PM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
. . . but I just don't think we all need to panic every time we see someone that's dressed in "Muslim garb"?

He didn't say anyone should - not even close.



I read his response and I really think you're deluding yourself if you think he didn't mean that he was afraid.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Froderik

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2010, 06:04:39 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Froderik"
Better safe than sorry.

I'm really surprised to hear you say that.

Why? In the context of my post it makes sense.

After what happened on 911, can you blame the guy for being afraid to get on that plane...?
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2010, 06:21:33 PM »
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Froderik"
Better safe than sorry.

I'm really surprised to hear you say that.

Why? In the context of my post it makes sense.

After what happened on 911, can you blame the guy for being afraid to get on that plane...?


Well, blame isn't the word I'd use, but I've flown plenty since then and flown with "those people" and it hasn't really given me cause for concern.  But then again, it appears that I've had more encounters with Muslims that aren't "extremists".  I've talked at length with them about some very touchy issues.  I started out being afraid, but once I listened, researched and learned a little more about not only their religion but about Christianity and Judaism as well, I started to appreciate even more the value of a secular society.  Something that Muslims in the Middle East don't enjoy.  Like I said....for them it's kinda like living in a cult they can't escape.  Like group.  If they're not bashing America (over there), they're "stood up" and "confronted" only in their case they're very likely killed for going against the powers that be.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Stonewall

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2010, 07:07:17 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Froderik"
Better safe than sorry.

I'm really surprised to hear you say that.

Why? In the context of my post it makes sense.

After what happened on 911, can you blame the guy for being afraid to get on that plane...?


Well, blame isn't the word I'd use, but I've flown plenty since then and flown with "those people" and it hasn't really given me cause for concern.  But then again, it appears that I've had more encounters with Muslims that aren't "extremists".  I've talked at length with them about some very touchy issues.  I started out being afraid, but once I listened, researched and learned a little more about not only their religion but about Christianity and Judaism as well, I started to appreciate even more the value of a secular society.  Something that Muslims in the Middle East don't enjoy.  Like I said....for them it's kinda like living in a cult they can't escape.  Like group.  If they're not bashing America (over there), they're "stood up" and "confronted" only in their case they're very likely killed for going against the powers that be.


Anne,

What is a Muslim Extremist?

A moderate Muslim is one who... this is my opinion... a Muslim who follows what Muhammad taught. Without adding to it or misrepresenting it, for whatever reason.

After 9/11, Islam perked my interest... I watched on TV the talking heads who, they always put opposites against each other... as they do with every subject, and I guess they expect us to pick whatever side we want to believe. I did not know what to believe. And, I have always been one to follow politics and Foreign Policy. The Soviets took up most of my time when I considered the world, the Cold War being as it was. So, I never really studied Islam. There were bigger fish to fry.

After 9/11 I had to take a look at this situation. We had won the Cold War and we had a basically peaceful 1990's. It was a time to relax a bit. So, after the attacks I was not getting anything from the news that satisfied me in any way whatsoever. Like I said, you could believe whatever you wanted, the media gave you that choice... I don't think they do so anymore, in regard to Islam.

So, I studied the subject. I went to Muslims... I learned Islam from Muslims. It took me a couple years to grasp Islam. Really understand it.

It is like studying the U.S. Constitution. It takes time to figure out how an Imam or Islamic Cleric reaches a decision. What they base their findings on. Islam is a very legalistic Ideology. When I talk to people who are interested about learning Islam I always counsel them to go into it thinking "law".

In our system a moderate would be someone whose opinion reflects what the founders of this country meant when they wrote the Constitution, and whatever amendments to it, the generation who added the amendment what they thought it meant when they voted for it.

An extremist, in our system, would be someone who dissembles what our forefathers meant. Deceives for their own gain. Even if no harm is meant. A moderate would be someone who fairly interprets the text.

Unfortunately, and when I began my study of Islam I expected a different result... unfortunately my studies led me to understand that Al Qaeda are the Moderate Muslims. The fairly interpret the text.

That is not the conclusion I wanted to arrive at...
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Offline BuzzKill

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2010, 07:22:23 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
. . . but I just don't think we all need to panic every time we see someone that's dressed in "Muslim garb"?

He didn't say anyone should - not even close.



I read his response and I really think you're deluding yourself if you think he didn't mean that he was afraid.

Concerned/worried (afraid if you like) but he didn't say we all need to panic every time we see someone dressed in Muslim garb tho -  nothing even close to that.  What he said was rational and completely understandable and anyone who claims they wouldn't feel the same is deluding themselves.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2010, 07:37:47 PM »
Quote from: "Stonewall"
Anne,

What is a Muslim Extremist?

A moderate Muslim is one who... this is my opinion... a Muslim who follows what Muhammad taught. Without adding to it or misrepresenting it, for whatever reason.

And a Christian extremist would be one who not only follows the teachings of Jesus, but the Old Testament as well.  Both are extremely violent and if we were not a secular country, we'd be stoning women to death, not eating seafood   :eek:  and wouldn't dare mix fabrics.

Quote
After 9/11, Islam perked my interest... I watched on TV the talking heads who, they always put opposites against each other... as they do with every subject, and I guess they expect us to pick whatever side we want to believe. I did not know what to believe. And, I have always been one to follow politics and Foreign Policy. The Soviets took up most of my time when I considered the world, the Cold War being as it was. So, I never really studied Islam. There were bigger fish to fry.


Me too, for the most part.  I started looking into Islam a little bit sooner, but not much.

Quote
After 9/11 I had to take a look at this situation. We had won the Cold War and we had a basically peaceful 1990's. It was a time to relax a bit. So, after the attacks I was not getting anything from the news that satisfied me in any way whatsoever. Like I said, you could believe whatever you wanted, the media gave you that choice... I don't think they do so anymore, in regard to Islam.

I don't think they ever really "gave us a choice" as much as they weren't really paying attention.

Quote
So, I studied the subject. I went to Muslims... I learned Islam from Muslims. It took me a couple years to grasp Islam. Really understand it.

It is like studying the U.S. Constitution. It takes time to figure out how an Imam or Islamic Cleric reaches a decision. What they base their findings on. Islam is a very legalistic Ideology. When I talk to people who are interested about learning Islam I always counsel them to go into it thinking "law".


Great way to put it, especially to them.

Quote
In our system a moderate would be someone whose opinion reflects what the founders of this country meant when they wrote the Constitution, and whatever amendments to it, the generation who added the amendment what they thought it meant when they voted for it.


Eh.....I'm not so sure.  There are a lot of people that say they're "Constitutionalists", but they really have no idea what's actually in it.  Case in point, Christine O'Donnell (Tea Party darling) just the other night said that she didn't know that the phrase "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" was in the First Amendment.  When it was pointed out, her statement was "The First Amendment really says that?"  My jaw dropped to the floor.

Quote
An extremist, in our system, would be someone who dissembles what our forefathers meant. Deceives for their own gain. Even if no harm is meant. A moderate would be someone who fairly interprets the text.


I disagree for the very example I gave above.  If some of these Tea Partiers had their way, there'd be no pre-marital sex, no gays, no choice in abortion, creationism would be taught in science class, etc.  Hell, if O'Donnell had her way, we wouldn't be "allowed" to masturbate!  Seriously!

Quote
Unfortunately, and when I began my study of Islam I expected a different result... unfortunately my studies led me to understand that Al Qaeda are the Moderate Muslims. The fairly interpret the text.

While I disagree with that assessment, sort of the same could be said about strict Christians.  If you really read the Bible, it's not a pretty sight.

Quote
That is not the conclusion I wanted to arrive at...

I would imagine so.
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Offline BuzzKill

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2010, 07:43:00 PM »
October 18, 2010
It's Logical to Be 'Islamophobic'
By R.C. Marsh
From a utilitarian perspective, it's simple. The average person faces greater danger from radicalized Muslims than from other dangers that we also fear, such as sharks or lightning.

    * According to the ISAF, in 2009, there were 61 unprovoked shark attacks worldwide, resulting in five deaths and 56 injured.
    * Lightning is more dangerous than sharks. According to NOAA, in 2009, 34 Americans died from lightning strikes. Worldwide, the estimate is about a thousand deaths and five thousand injuries annually.
    * But radical Islamic terrorism is even more dangerous. According to the U.S. State Department report on terrorist attacks in 2009, "about one half" of the 10,999 identified terrorist attacks worldwide were associated with Sunni Islamists. That's the high end of the scale. By contrast, another list showing only attacks involving Islamic radicals indicates that they were only responsible for about 1,900 world-wide attacks in 2009. Still, those resulted in more than nine thousand deaths and 18,500 injuries.


The average person is thirty times more likely to be attacked by a Muslim than a shark, and hundreds of times more likely to be killed by one. But it's not wrong to be "Sharkophobic," even though the risk is infinitely small. There are good reasons to fear sharks.

    * 1) Predatory - Sharks are dangerous predators that attack when we are vulnerable. Their attacks are sudden, unexpected, and very hard to defend against.
    * 2) Single-minded - Sharks are single-minded and pursue their own objectives. This predatory behavior is controlled by instincts and criteria that I don't understand.
    * 3) Uncaring - Sharks don't care about me or my concerns. I cannot get a shark to accept me as a person of value worthy of life.
    * 4) Fear - The shark's reputation as a cold-blooded killer causes the mere appearance of one to produce fear.


Unfortunately, the reality is that there are also some Muslims who fit the same basic criteria.

    * 1) Predatory - Radical Muslims are also dangerous predators who attack when we are vulnerable. Their attacks are sudden, unexpected, and very hard to defend against.
    * 2) Single-minded - Radicalized Muslims are single-minded and pursue only their own objectives. This predatory behavior is controlled by a worldview and a set of criteria that few of us understand. (Further, those who do understand it make it clear that we could not accept it as normative without massively disruptive changes to our lives.)
    * 3) Uncaring - Radicalized Muslims do not care about me or my concerns. In fact, they do not value anyone who doesn't precisely share their own specific interpretations of Islam. (As a result, the vast majority of their victims are also Muslim.)
    * 4) Fear - It is the intent of these radicals to produce fear -- that's why we call them "terrorists." Terror is part of the method they employ to get compliance to their demands. It should not surprise us when they succeed in generating fear that greatly contributes to "Islamophobia."
    * 5) Announced Intent -- There is a fifth dangerous element unique to these people. They have repeatedly "declared war" on us, our religion, our political system, and our way of life. As proof of their intent, they have conducted violent attacks inside our country, using attackers who live among us and hide their malicious intent until it is too late. Their deception involves extensive lying and efforts to appear "normal" so that they can attack without warning.
          o Who would have thought that a mild-mannered Saudi national, who was college-educated in Germany and who had been in this country for more than a year learning to fly commercial jets, would have led the most vicious attack against civilians in U.S. history?
          o Who would have thought that a U.S.-born practicing psychiatrist, an Army officer, sent through medical school by the Army, would have unexpectedly attacked random soldiers in his own workplace, killing thirteen and wounding thirty?

Therefore, it is logical to be fearful of Muslims because a tiny percentage of them, who deliberately deceive everyone about their intentions, might be extremely dangerous.

Unfortunately, this is bad for the rest of the Islamic faith. We can't tell them apart -- until it is too late. It seems to me that this logical fear will cause the Muslim faith as a whole to suffer growing isolation. Since I fear sharks, I do not go into the water when they are around, and I get out if they show up. The same withdrawal reaction is rational when dealing with Islamic radicals.

How do we counter "Islamophobia"?

It has been thoroughly proven that prejudice is not helpful to our society. But addressing the five elements that cause rational "Islamophobia" will require at least two things.

The most important thing will be for most of the leaders of the Muslim world to repeatedly make clear, public distinctions between those who are peaceful and those who are not. That's the only way in which those of us outside of Islam can know whom we can trust and whom we should avoid. It will have to be done over and over. But to do it will call for tremendous bravery on the part of those who want to pursue peace. By repudiating radical Islam, those leaders will become instant targets for those who want to dominate the world. Those of us outside the Muslim faith need to recognize and respect that courage. Whoever takes the lead on this issue in Islam will be showing true gallantry to the entire world.

The other important step will be for average people to experience frequent relationships with non-radical Muslims. Reality and experience show us that the most effective way to get over our "Islamophobia" is by building relationships among ordinary people, millions of times. That takes many years and cannot be rushed nor forced. Efforts to force that outcome will simply raise the walls of "Islamophobia" while denying its existence.

I've always found that honesty is the best policy in any relationship.

So, peaceful Muslims, please accept our apologies in advance.

Let us honestly say that when we may appear "Islamophobic," we think that we are actually just being "prudent." Over time, a relationship will develop between us, and trust will build. But this will take time, probably years.  

Further, expect us to draw back each time the radicals trigger a surprise attack in the West. We will back off some because people like Major Hasan bring the danger to our minds again.

But if you're willing to take the time, I think you'll find that most Americans are, too. I know that I will. We are a kind and generous people who are worthy of your time.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2010, 07:56:44 PM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
October 18, 2010
It's Logical to Be 'Islamophobic'
By R.C. Marsh


I'd respect it more if it was from a more unbiased source and not a conservative "think tank".


The American Thinker
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The American Thinker is a daily conservative internet publication dealing with American politics, foreign policy, national security, economics, diplomacy, culture, military strategy, and the survival of the State of Israel.[2]
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AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2010, 07:58:32 PM »
Quote from: "BuzzKill"
October 18, 2010
It's Logical to Be 'Islamophobic'
By R.C. Marsh


I'd respect it more if it was from a more unbiased source and not a conservative "think tank".  Edited to add:  do you have any thoughts on what I wrote above?


The American Thinker
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The American Thinker is a daily conservative internet publication dealing with American politics, foreign policy, national security, economics, diplomacy, culture, military strategy, and the survival of the State of Israel.[2][/quote]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Stonewall

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Re: More Muslim Media Bullshit
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2010, 08:00:10 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Stonewall"
Anne,

What is a Muslim Extremist?

A moderate Muslim is one who... this is my opinion... a Muslim who follows what Muhammad taught. Without adding to it or misrepresenting it, for whatever reason.

And a Christian extremist would be one who not only follows the teachings of Jesus, but the Old Testament as well.  Both are extremely violent and if we were not a secular country, we'd be stoning women to death, not eating seafood   :eek:  and wouldn't dare mix fabrics.

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After 9/11, Islam perked my interest... I watched on TV the talking heads who, they always put opposites against each other... as they do with every subject, and I guess they expect us to pick whatever side we want to believe. I did not know what to believe. And, I have always been one to follow politics and Foreign Policy. The Soviets took up most of my time when I considered the world, the Cold War being as it was. So, I never really studied Islam. There were bigger fish to fry.


Me too, for the most part.  I started looking into Islam a little bit sooner, but not much.

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After 9/11 I had to take a look at this situation. We had won the Cold War and we had a basically peaceful 1990's. It was a time to relax a bit. So, after the attacks I was not getting anything from the news that satisfied me in any way whatsoever. Like I said, you could believe whatever you wanted, the media gave you that choice... I don't think they do so anymore, in regard to Islam.

I don't think they ever really "gave us a choice" as much as they weren't really paying attention.

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So, I studied the subject. I went to Muslims... I learned Islam from Muslims. It took me a couple years to grasp Islam. Really understand it.

It is like studying the U.S. Constitution. It takes time to figure out how an Imam or Islamic Cleric reaches a decision. What they base their findings on. Islam is a very legalistic Ideology. When I talk to people who are interested about learning Islam I always counsel them to go into it thinking "law".


Great way to put it, especially to them.

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In our system a moderate would be someone whose opinion reflects what the founders of this country meant when they wrote the Constitution, and whatever amendments to it, the generation who added the amendment what they thought it meant when they voted for it.


Eh.....I'm not so sure.  There are a lot of people that say they're "Constitutionalists", but they really have no idea what's actually in it.  Case in point, Christine O'Donnell (Tea Party darling) just the other night said that she didn't know that the phrase "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" was in the First Amendment.  When it was pointed out, her statement was "The First Amendment really says that?"  My jaw dropped to the floor.

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An extremist, in our system, would be someone who dissembles what our forefathers meant. Deceives for their own gain. Even if no harm is meant. A moderate would be someone who fairly interprets the text.


I disagree for the very example I gave above.  If some of these Tea Partiers had their way, there'd be no pre-marital sex, no gays, no choice in abortion, creationism would be taught in science class, etc.  Hell, if O'Donnell had her way, we wouldn't be "allowed" to masturbate!  Seriously!

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Unfortunately, and when I began my study of Islam I expected a different result... unfortunately my studies led me to understand that Al Qaeda are the Moderate Muslims. The fairly interpret the text.

While I disagree with that assessment, sort of the same could be said about strict Christians.  If you really read the Bible, it's not a pretty sight.

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That is not the conclusion I wanted to arrive at...

I would imagine so.


Anne,

If Christianity were like Islam then we would be living in a Christian Republic. Why is there is no Christian Republic in this world? Why is there such a difference between the Western World and Islamic World if there is no difference, if one is like the other?

Christians have never stoned people. Didn't Jesus say that whoever is without sin, cast the first stone?

Again, what is a Moderate Muslim? One who disregards what their religion calls for?

An extremist is one who follows what Muhammad commands?

What is a moderate cannibal? Instead of eating human flesh... they just trade recipes?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »