How Far Will Program Pushers Go to Invalidate Abuse Victims?

[Shadyacres]

Whatever Whooter, this thread is not about talking about peoples stories, with or without consent.  It is about the lengths pro-program people will go to in order to discredit the victims of their money machines.  Stay on topic.  And for the record everybody, I am male, sorry if using Bebe as my avatar confused anyone, I just really liked the picture.

[Whooter]

{deep sigh}......You really are having a hard time with reading comprehension on this one, aren't you.  My consent has been given.  Has it sunk in yet?

Hey, go easy, Anne, we are not understanding each other.  I dont think you see my point either.

I understand that you are giving consent.  Did someone get the consent of the Reubens when they talked about their son/brothers suicide and then invited them to join the conversation here on fornits?
In general this isnt right, not everyone is you and other people may not want their rape being discussed when ever someone else feels like it.  Talking about rape can stir up bad feelings in the person who was victimized, it may not with you, but it does in some victims.  

If there were another survivor on this board who was raped I dont think it would be appropriate for anyone to just start talking about it openly without that person giving the okay.  I think as a minimum it is just common courtesy.



...

[Anne Bonney]

I understand that you are giving consent.

Really?  Cuz from the quote below, it doesn't appear that you do.

Now we are seeing it with survivors rapes being discussed without the consent of the person who was attacked.

That discussion was about me and my rape.  Nobody else was referenced, so you can stop pretending that you care if I was hurt by it or not.

Did someone get the consent of the Reubens when they talked about their son/brothers suicide and then invited them to join the conversation here on fornits?

I haven't seen any 'invitation' extended to the Reubens.  I could be wrong, but I haven't seen any personally.  Even so, I think it's an appropriate discussion for the TTI because many of us who have been through programs (unlike yourself) understand how damaging they are and how that can effect someone's sense of self and could lead to or at least contribute to suicidal feelings.  If John Reuben is going to put himself out there as a representative of the TTI by starting a "non-profit" to get more kids into programs.....then he's made himself somewhat of a public figure and it's absolutely appropriate to discuss the fact that sending his son to a program very well could have contributed to how he was feeling when he took his life.  

In general this isnt right, not everyone is you and other people may not want their rape being discussed when ever someone else feels like it.

But we're talking about MY situation.  You feigned being upset that someone brought up MY rape, not anyone else.  That's what we're talking about.

Talking about rape can stir up bad feelings in the person who was victimized, it may not with you, but it does in some victims.

 

Well, WY didn't bring up any other rape victims.

If there were another survivor on this board who was raped I dont think it would be appropriate for anyone to just start talking about it openly without that person giving the okay.

That didn't happen.


Quit playing the victim here.  You voluntarily, regularly and knowingly come to a board populated mostly by survivors of these programs and routinely dismiss and minimize what we've been through.  If the heat's too much for you, either put your big boy pants on or get the fuck out of the kitchen.

[Whooter]

If there were another survivor on this board who was raped I dont think it would be appropriate for anyone to just start talking about it openly without that person giving the okay.

That didn't happen.

I tend to agree, I dont think it has either that I am aware of.  If it does I think it should be addressed, at least that is my opinion.  The moderators can approach it any way they like.

Quit playing the victim here.  You voluntarily, regularly and knowingly come to a board populated mostly by survivors of these programs and routinely dismiss and minimize what we've been through.  If the heat's too much for you, either put your big boy pants on or get the fuck out of the kitchen.

I will let the attack slide.



...

[Anne Bonney]

If there were another survivor on this board who was raped I dont think it would be appropriate for anyone to just start talking about it openly without that person giving the okay.

That didn't happen.

I tend to agree, I dont think it has either that I am aware of.  

Then why are you pretending to be so upset about this since it only referred to me and I gave my consent?  You're getting upset about things that didn't happen.

Quit playing the victim here.  You voluntarily, regularly and knowingly come to a board populated mostly by survivors of these programs and routinely dismiss and minimize what we've been through.  If the heat's too much for you, either put your big boy pants on or get the fuck out of the kitchen.

I will let the attack slide.

It's not an attack.  Calling you an asshole would be considered an attack.  ^^^^^^ is some unsolicited advice to you.

[Whooter]

If there were another survivor on this board who was raped I dont think it would be appropriate for anyone to just start talking about it openly without that person giving the okay.

That didn't happen.

I tend to agree, I dont think it has either that I am aware of.  

Then why are you pretending to be so upset about this since it only referred to me and I gave my consent?  You're getting upset about things that didn't happen.

Whether you give people consent or not I dont think it is right for others to just bring the subject of another persons rape or suicide when ever they choose.

You could give me (or someone else) consent to talk about your rape openly at any time of my choosing.  But I would consider it wrong for me or anyone else to bring the subject up, say a month from now, unless you consented to it then or brought it up yourself.

Violent crimes can bring up memories which the person may not want to deal with or think about at that time.  The person who was victimized should choose the time and place to talk about those issues.

Lets get this back on topic



...

[Watchful Yeoman]

Topic reminder.  

The fact is that Whooter did this awful thing to Anne as way to "punch back" for being caught in a web of lies in another thread.  He attempted to invalidate Anne's experience by calling what happened to her "unprotected sex," but it was actually forcible rape, which he later denied knowing.  It was demonstrated that he indeed knew this and actually made commentary on it before - his previous comments about it were posted.  Pretending he didn't know was the last possible attempt to squirm out of responsibility for his deplorable actions.  Now that has blown up in his face as well and we are back to the beginning.

Below is what Whooter said and did to invalidate Anne.  He still will not say why he feels the need to revictimize/invalidate victims of abuse.  Probably everyone here draws the same conclusion about why he does this: to protect his income stream from the TTI business.  

I have been continuously amazed at the lengths pro-program people will go to discredit abuse vicims and smear their character in order to invalidate their personal stories of abuse at programs.

Here's an example of a pro-program poster using this tactic of personal destruction to invalidate the experiences and words of an abuse survivor from one of the most notoriously abusive and harmful programs ever to exist - Straight, Inc.

Fabricated sons.  Plural.  Or fabricated daughter, singular.  Which is it?

Look, Anne, we have already established that you have not been truthful with the readers here on fornits.  You try to make the readers believe that you were this shy little girl prior to going into a program and they turned you into the foul mouthed person that we read about everyday here who blames the program for your lack of education.  You change your story with the wind and lie about the events that occurred in your program to gain attention.

But the truth is that you dropped out of school started drinking and doing drugs.  You got into car accidents and started hanging out with with kids who were ending up in jail.  You were having unsafe sex and your parents didn’t want to raise their grandchildren while you figured out your life.  Maybe straight wasn’t the best choice, but you were surly at risk and they needed to do something.



...

Anne Bonney has been very open about the abuse she suffered inside and outside Straight, including the horrible fact that she was raped as an underaged girl and was blamed for her own rape by the program staff.  She was a young rape victim not old enough to drive or to know anyone in any jails and she was put into Straight where she was dreadfully abused, as all the kids there were, and revictimized.  Whooter knows this story.  Yet he found it fit to comment on Anne's personal history with disgusting false accusations and sexualized aggression toward her.

What is wrong with sadistic cretins like this?

I stand behind my posts.

Now I'd like to hear your reasons for posting that Anne Bonney was having unprotected sex as an underaged girl. You know she was raped. Was this rape what you're calling "unprotected sex"? You do realize that your average rapist doesn't ask his victim if she wants to have "protected non-consensual sex," right? I'm curious to hear your reasons why you are taking personal potshots of a sexual nature at a rape victim. That's not cool. Did the admin warn you about this deplorable behavior?

Stand behind your posts like a man.  Why did you do this to a person who has told you several times in the past she was raped and the program staff blamed her for it?

What did the mods say to you about it?

Once more, when confronted with his own ugly words and deeds, Whooter scurries away like a plague rat.

He wants to avoid this, but he should not be allowed.

[Anne Bonney]

Whether you give people consent or not I dont think it is right for others to just bring the subject of another persons rape or suicide when ever they choose.

Then what was this all about........?

Now we are seeing it with survivors rapes being discussed without the consent of the person who was attacked.

You could give me (or someone else) consent to talk about your rape openly at any time of my choosing.  But I would consider it wrong for me or anyone else to bring the subject up, say a month from now, unless you consented to it then or brought it up yourself.

Pay attention......I gave my consent.  Has that fact still not sunk in?  Besides, it really doesn't concern you.  It was about me.  It was someone coming to my defense after you posted the vileness you did about me as a teenager.

Violent crimes can bring up memories which the person may not want to deal with or think about at that time.  The person who was victimized should choose the time and place to talk about those issues.

Pay attention......I gave my consent.  Has that fact still not sunk in?  

And it was how the violent crime was dealt with in Straight that did more damage than the actual crime itself.

Lets get this back on topic

This is absolutely on the topic of how far program pushers will go to invalidate abuse victims.  You've been a prime example in this entire thread, among others.

[Whooter]

I think we all understand that you are upset about bringing up Annes rape on the open forum and have a need to put the focus on someone else.  That is understandable.

As a recap of the discussion to date I think we all understand that it wasnt intentional on your part to hurt Anne in any way.  Your fury was aimed at me and you made an error in your rush to judgement.  Anne has come forward and says she is not upset with you for this.  She is actually more upset with me if that helps at all, DJ.

I think we can move forward from the rape topic since it has exhausted itself and we have worked through the issues.  




...

[Dysfunction Junction]

Here's the actual recap of this topic which I have just read from front to back.

1. I posted only this post in this thread.  Why Whooter is so obsessed with me, I have no idea.
2.  Whooter called Anne's being raped "unprotected sex," an absoultely heinous remark, because he was busted out telling more lies in another thread and he wanted to hit back at Anne for catching him lying, which apparently spawned this topic.
3.  Anne is upset and angry with Whooter for his callous remarks.
4.  Anne is not upset with me because I have not been involved with this topic at all, nor is she mad at any other posters beside Whooter, as she has stated.
5.  Whooter got caught again lying his ass off multiple times.
6.  Whooter tried to blame Anne, WY and me for his actions/lies.
7.  Whooter was proven to be lying that he wasn't aware of Anne's situation via his own posts.
8.  Whooter wants this topic shut down because it reveals his serious personality disorders.

I think that about covers it.  I'm lecturing this week and next but will check back on this topic later on.  See you around, people.

[Anne Bonney]

It would be helpful if you provided links for the posts, DJ, when you post them.  That conversation could have been written years ago for all we know.

Who cares if it was written years ago.  It was in a discussion with you.  You mean you can somehow grasp the details of my life as a teenager before I was shipped off to Straight but you can't remember a conversation you had with me?  Hmm.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=540#p238642


Here's another one where I stated it and you responded just a few posts down from mine.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23728&start=30#p290327

[Whooter]

It would be helpful if you provided links for the posts, DJ, when you post them.  That conversation could have been written years ago for all we know.

Who cares if it was written years ago.  It was in a discussion with you.  You mean you can somehow grasp the details of my life as a teenager before I was shipped off to Straight but you can't remember a conversation you had with me?  Hmm.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=540#p238642


Here's another one where I stated it and you responded just a few posts down from mine.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23728&start=30#p290327

No, sorry, I dont remember those at all.  Thanks for the links, though, Anne.  It helps to have a reference to help remember when they occurred.  That was 3 years ago!



...

[Anne Bonney]

I think we  (no-no) all understand that you are upset about bringing up Annes rape on the open forum and have a need to put the focus on someone else.  That is understandable.

No, people are upset at the garbage you posted about me as a teenager in order to invalidate the abuse I suffered at the hands of Straight.....but you know this already and are still trying to deflect the attention away from that.

As a recap of the discussion to date I think we (no-no) all understand that it wasnt intentional on your part to hurt Anne in any way.  Your fury was aimed at me and you made an error in your rush to judgement.  Anne has come forward and says she is not upset with you for this.  She is actually more upset with me if that helps at all, DJ.

He's not worried about me being upset with him, as he's able to read for comprehension and understands that I've given my consent for the rape to be discussed, especially in relation to how Straight's dealing of it made the damage much, much worse.  He's simply pointing out what is plain to see.  You've been feeling the heat lately and decided to post something nasty about my teenage years in order to take the attention off of yourself.

I think we can move forward from the rape topic since it has exhausted itself and we have worked through the issues.  

The topic isn't and never was the rape.  The topic is the extent to which you and other program supporters will go try to discredit survivors accounts of abuse inside programs.  And of course you'd like to move on.  You've really been catching a lot of flak lately for saying some pretty hurtful things about me and others and you'd like it to all just go away.

[Anne Bonney]

It would be helpful if you provided links for the posts, DJ, when you post them.  That conversation could have been written years ago for all we know.

Who cares if it was written years ago.  It was in a discussion with you.  You mean you can somehow grasp the details of my life as a teenager before I was shipped off to Straight but you can't remember a conversation you had with me?  Hmm.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&start=540#p238642


Here's another one where I stated it and you responded just a few posts down from mine.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23728&start=30#p290327

No, sorry, I dont remember those at all.  Thanks for the links, though, Anne.  It helps to have a reference to help remember when they occurred.  That was 3 years ago!

So.

You mean you can somehow grasp the details of my life as a teenager before I was shipped off to Straight but you can't remember a conversation you had with me?

[Anne Bonney]

I have been continuously amazed at the lengths pro-program people will go to discredit abuse vicims and smear their character in order to invalidate their personal stories of abuse at programs.

Here's an example of a pro-program poster using this tactic of personal destruction to invalidate the experiences and words of an abuse survivor from one of the most notoriously abusive and harmful programs ever to exist - Straight, Inc.

Fabricated sons.  Plural.  Or fabricated daughter, singular.  Which is it?

Look, Anne, we have already established that you have not been truthful with the readers here on fornits.  You try to make the readers believe that you were this shy little girl prior to going into a program and they turned you into the foul mouthed person that we read about everyday here who blames the program for your lack of education. You change your story with the wind and lie about the events that occurred in your program to gain attention.

But the truth is that you dropped out of school started drinking and doing drugs.  You got into car accidents and started hanging out with with kids who were ending up in jail.  You were having unsafe sex and your parents didn’t want to raise their grandchildren while you figured out your life.  Maybe straight wasn’t the best choice, but you were surly at risk and they needed to do something.



...

Anne Bonney has been very open about the abuse she suffered inside and outside Straight, including the horrible fact that she was raped as an underaged girl and was blamed for her own rape by the program staff.  She was a young rape victim not old enough to drive or to know anyone in any jails and she was put into Straight where she was dreadfully abused, as all the kids there were, and revictimized.  Whooter knows this story.  Yet he found it fit to comment on Anne's personal history with disgusting false accusations and sexualized aggression toward her.

What is wrong with sadistic cretins like this?

I stand behind my posts.

Now I'd like to hear your reasons for posting that Anne Bonney was having unprotected sex as an underaged girl. You know she was raped. Was this rape what you're calling "unprotected sex"? You do realize that your average rapist doesn't ask his victim if she wants to have "protected non-consensual sex," right? I'm curious to hear your reasons why you are taking personal potshots of a sexual nature at a rape victim. That's not cool. Did the admin warn you about this deplorable behavior?

Stand behind your posts like a man.  Why did you do this to a person who has told you several times in the past she was raped and the program staff blamed her for it?

What did the mods say to you about it?

Once more, when confronted with his own ugly words and deeds, Whooter scurries away like a plague rat.

He wants to avoid this, but he should not be allowed.

I also asked him to provide examples of where I lied.  He's yet to do that either.

And that post of his really is a prime example of the title of this thread.  Not only is it filled with outright lies about my years before Straight, it was posted solely to try to hurt me and to take the focus off of him.