Why all the sudden a change on Fornits

[Dysfunction Junction]

Whooter is very well versed in fraud.

I tried setting up an account using a proxy from South East Asia but the link redirects me to the paypal account to check my IP (location).  It compares my IP with my home address and rejects the payment if they do not match.  So it kept failing.

So tried to make a payment to one of my businesses by using a proxy from Vietnam and the proxy location they gave me was a city named “Hoi an” so I googled the city and found a hotel and address and used that as my residence and country of origin and their phone number of the hotel.  I then used a bank of America virtual credit card and entered a fake name and sent myself $200.

I received my code #### in a day or two which indicated that my payment went through.  So I think I found a way to send money through paypal and if they conduct an internal audit there will be no trace back to me with the exception of the identification code on the virtual credit card which only traces back to a local Walmart Store.



...

[Maximillian]

Found you.  Whooters, we have to come up with a plan to make this place even more about us.  I like your child molester strategy, but I think it needs a boost to really take over this place.

[SUCK_IT]

Count me in, boys.

[Deprogrammed]

In my humble opinion it seems as though things have gotten to light on the pro-program shill and harder on the people who are against it... I see where Fornits ask to help with operating costs... and I see where it is $70.00 over paid... Makes me think that Whooter is the one who is footing the bill and hence all the new rules... Just food for thought... If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... Just might be a duck !!!! [/color]

I agree with you!

I feel it is orchestrated by some twisted survivors...names I will not mention...but they have recently gotten all lovey dovey with some certain ex- executive  staff members. look around ...keep your eyes open.
I got literally "group attacked on fb recently...b/c I publicly confronted aan ex executive staff member....I had to pull in str8 survivors to back me up...I mean veteran str8 survivors. These attacks were from all of the brainwashed lovey dovey khk survivors BTW.

[psy]

In my humble opinion it seems as though things have gotten to light on the pro-program shill and harder on the people who are against it... I see where Fornits ask to help with operating costs... and I see where it is $70.00 over paid... Makes me think that Whooter is the one who is footing the bill and hence all the new rules... Just food for thought... If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... Just might be a duck !!!! [/color]

I agree with you!

Here is my response.  Read that and on:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31282&start=30#p390510

The purpose of moderation is not to take sides or to punish shills.  The purpose is to organize discussion to make the forum easier to read and browse.  The purpose is not to censor or delete.  The purpose is to encourage fruitful discussion.  Some may feel that Whooter is an unacceptable presence.  That may be, but so long as he follows the rules, and he's very good at doing that, stretching enforcement to go after him would be taking sides.  Taking sides is what can lead to the demise of forums.  Just ask Struggling Teens.  It used to have a forum.  All somebody has to do is point out that the board is censored and it immediately damages the credibility of the forum and makes people think twice about taking anything that is said seriously.

There is also the fear of "group think".  An environment with controlled communication rapidly becomes a sort of echo chamber.  People naturally absorb the viewpoints of those around them, especially if everybody agrees on a truth.  You see this all the time on certain political sites.  Those with opposing viewpoints simply seeking to express themselves are labeled trolls and often banned.  Either that or the comments are flagged hidden.  I don't want that to happen here and drawing a solid line of "fairness" and not crossing it is a way to allow the forum some moderation without progressing into tyranny.  The few new rules are very simple, objective, fair, and mostly about organization.  If you have suggestions on improving the system, email me.

[psy]

In my humble opinion it seems as though things have gotten to light on the pro-program shill and harder on the people who are against it... I see where Fornits ask to help with operating costs... and I see where it is $70.00 over paid... Makes me think that Whooter is the one who is footing the bill and hence all the new rules... Just food for thought... If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... Just might be a duck !!!! [/color]

I agree with you!

Here is my response.  Read that and on:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31282&start=30#p390510

The purpose of moderation is not to take sides or to punish shills.  The purpose is to organize discussion to make the forum easier to read and browse.  The purpose is not to censor or delete.  The purpose is to encourage fruitful discussion.  Some may feel that Whooter is an unacceptable presence.  That may be, but so long as he follows the rules, and he's very good at doing that, stretching enforcement to go after him would be taking sides.  Taking sides is what can lead to the demise of forums.  Just ask Struggling Teens.  It used to have a forum.  All somebody has to do is point out that the board is censored and it immediately damages the credibility of the forum and makes people think twice about taking anything that is said seriously.

There is also the fear of "group think".  An environment with controlled communication rapidly becomes a sort of echo chamber.  People naturally absorb the viewpoints of those around them, especially if everybody agrees on a truth.  You see this all the time on certain political sites.  Those with opposing viewpoints simply seeking to express themselves are labeled trolls and often banned.  Either that or the comments are flagged hidden.  I don't want that to happen here and drawing a solid line of "fairness" and not crossing it is a way to allow the forum some moderation without progressing into tyranny.  The few new rules are very simple, objective, fair, and mostly about organization.  If you have suggestions on improving the system, email me.

[Deprogrammed]

you know what, Psy....I am going to have to disagree with you here.
All of this diplomacy is leading NOWHERE.
I found it out once again the other day.
You cannot reason with these "programmies"...Sorry but I have wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much experience in trying to, and them either lying, or still so very brainwashed that they don't even hear the truth at all. then let's factor in...survivors getting all lovey dovey with executive staff which i have now seen, and No I am not referring to "oine of us" as in Rich Mullinax either... I am referring to executive staff that NEVER went tthrough the program...KNEW fully well that abuse was happening...licensed psychologists.....yet they let it go on anyway, and did not EVER report what they knew about the ABUSE to any authorities.

And BTW...the "group think" is already happening...on FB lead by one you should not trust if ye have in the past.
This "diplomacy" is BS...sorry but abusers need to be held accountable.

Like I said..not a fear of "group think" or group attack" it is in progress as we speak here, and has been going on for some time now.

I am sick and tired of it.
-Suzi

p.s. Dear l;ovey dovey motherfuckers......do you not realize that you are playing right into the "group dynamic"?..Wake the fuck up! You know who you are, and so do I! You WILL be exposed! You shall see!

p.p.s.- BTW...the executive staff in which I speak is ex executive khk staff...not whooter., and the people that group attacked me for publicly confronting them were false lovey dovey (in bed with exec. staff) khk'ers! you know one of them , psy, and if ye think about it long and hard, you will know exactly who I speak of.

[heretik]

Psy, Whooter is not seeking diplomacy nor is he truly seeking to enlighten the masses, to a different point of view. Just read his posts for content, they lack experience, study and education. Which explains why everyone here has such a problem with him. On top of what I have already said he has been shown to be a bald face liar.
I think we need to examine what exactly we want to be here and how we can protect the survivors and the their testimonies. I don't believe we can have two opposing opinions on such personal experiences. These are real issues survivors either have dealt with or are continuing to deal with. Psy, you as much as anyone else knows what it feels like to be subjected to ridicule and the unwarranted scrutiny by someone with no real knowledge of what you went through at Benchmark.
Most of fornits is not a political debate atmosphere on issues, from what I have read and assume to understand Fornits is a information outlet to survivors, parents and others struggling or gathering information. We have the bonus of being able to share our experience and read others.
(IMO) Most of fornits should be shut off to people such as Whooter, not as a punishment but as a necessity to maintain the purpose of Fornits. Give him and folks as himself a forum of their own and have the rest for survivors only. I understand this poses even more problems initially but if we begin to think about this change, the answer may come.
Sorry I did not email you but my thoughts were so broad that I wanted to put it out here first, see if there is any responses and go from there.
I have collected much more thoughts on this particular issue which I can share if it allows for it.
I am not attacking Whooter, let me make myself clear on that. I am just holding him accountable for his behavior on this site and trying to find a solution for minimizing anymore of this foolishness. If there was any merit (not intellect) in what he was sharing, we/I would not be here having this conversation. His motivations are clear to everyone.
Thanks

[Samara]

Thank you, Heretik. My thoughts exactly.

The problem for me is not that Whooter is pro-program. My problem is that he has systematically changed the tenor and the spirit of this site. It is one thing to argue with a programmie; it's another thing when one sets up camp her and creates a 24/7 wall of obfuscation and derision to the extent that it governs the forum. No one can compete with someone willing to reside in his tactics, days, nights, weeks, months, years.  You can't ignore a monolith.

Fornits is already compromised. I don't care if its a bit of a Wild West with guns drawn and arrows slung, but Whooter isn't a gunslinger. He's a demolition expert.

As Heretik says: Most of fornits should be shut off to people such as Whooter, not as a punishment but as a necessity to maintain the purpose of Fornits..

[Anonymous]

Thank you, Heretik. My thoughts exactly.

The problem for me is not that Whooter is pro-program. My problem is that he has systematically changed the tenor and the spirit of this site. It is one thing to argue with a programmie; it's another thing when one sets up camp her and creates a 24/7 wall of obfuscation and derision to the extent that it governs the forum. No one can compete with someone willing to reside in his tactics, days, nights, weeks, months, years.  You can't ignore a monolith.

Fornits is already compromised. I don't care if its a bit of a Wild West with guns drawn and arrows slung, but Whooter isn't a gunslinger. He's a demolition expert.

As Heretik says: Most of fornits should be shut off to people such as Whooter, not as a punishment but as a necessity to maintain the purpose of Fornits..

Amen. :peace:  :peace: The truth is above Whooter. :beat:  :beat:

[psy]

Whooter is a liar.  We all know that.  But exposing his lies leads to fruitful discussion, so long as he doesn't go off-topic or destroy the thread, which is the purpose of that rule.  The problem is he's very slick and very good at angering others, which means people get emotional and violate the rules for him. I see all of this. The problem is that while he sticks to the letter of the law there is nothing I can do in a moderation role.  I don't have the "evidence" to prosecute him.

I see what you are saying about all this and I appreciate your sentiments but can't you just keep sensitive topics where you don't want Whooter to the CAN forum which already exists?  If he violates enough rules he will be banned.

[none-ya]

psy wrote;
"Whooter is a liar."

If people would quit engaging him , he would have nothing to lie about.