Author Topic: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.  (Read 1071 times)

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Offline DannyB II

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Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« on: September 28, 2010, 05:11:35 PM »
What I would like to discuss is the parents exclusively, there involvement leading up to the placement day. The relationship between the parents and the child, what went on, what is going on and overall how did the decision come about.
So there are probably several topics to choose from, I did this on purpose so hopefully this thread will not be easily de-railed. Especially when posting becomes contentious.
Examples of topics;
1. Parents being neglectful- abandoning their child
2. Parents being overwhelmed- feeling of hopeless, scared, not knowing what to do
3. Parents being tired of being parents- drug addictions/alcohol, divorce, boyfriends and girlfriends
4. Parents being manipulated by programs- gullible or tricked
5. Parents being incapable of being parents- emotional/mental issues, physical issues, financial issues
6. Parents not being able to control child-  Child with severe emotional/ mental handi-caps, ei; severe bi-polar, ADHD, autism, violent personality disorder, rebellion issues, severe drug and alcohol use, truancy....ect.

Why are so many parents placing there kids in various programs. I believe some of the reasons are above, if not what say you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Hedge

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2010, 01:26:07 AM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
What I would like to discuss is the parents exclusively, there involvement leading up to the placement day. The relationship between the parents and the child, what went on, what is going on and overall how did the decision come about.
So there are probably several topics to choose from, I did this on purpose so hopefully this thread will not be easily de-railed. Especially when posting becomes contentious.
Examples of topics;
1. Parents being neglectful- abandoning their child
2. Parents being overwhelmed- feeling of hopeless, scared, not knowing what to do
3. Parents being tired of being parents- drug addictions/alcohol, divorce, boyfriends and girlfriends
4. Parents being manipulated by programs- gullible or tricked
5. Parents being incapable of being parents- emotional/mental issues, physical issues, financial issues
6. Parents not being able to control child-  Child with severe emotional/ mental handi-caps, ei; severe bi-polar, ADHD, autism, violent personality disorder, rebellion issues, severe drug and alcohol use, truancy....ect.

Why are so many parents placing there kids in various programs. I believe some of the reasons are above, if not what say you.


I know that you mentioned parents exclusively, but in my case, I also had a guardian ad litem, so I will include her briefly as well.


As we're likely to find in most situations, it wasn't a single factor involved, but many, interwoven.



1. My parents willingly signed custody of me over to the authorities. While I believe they were doing this on the best advice they had at the time, it is still abandonment.

2. Absolutely my parents were overwhelmed. They didn't know how to cope with my suicidal behavior any more than I did, which is unfortunate but I think it was the nature of the beast in my case.

3. Contributing to my parents' feeling of overwhelm was their impending divorce.

4. I wanted to include my guardian ad litem here, because if we assume she was not taking kick backs from the facility (since that conjecture was not proven one way or another since she just vanished after finding the placement), she honestly believed it would be a better alternative placement for me.

5. My mother was heavily into her drug and alcohol at the time as well, so she didn't have the mental or emotional resources to cope with my behavior as well.

6. As I mentioned earlier in this list, my suicidal behavior was out of control. I couldn't control it, behavior contracts couldn't control it, and multiple hospitalizations couldn't deter it.



So, I guess the answer is: "Yes." I was pretty much screwed.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 08:17:03 PM »
Quote from: "Hedge"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
What I would like to discuss is the parents exclusively, there involvement leading up to the placement day. The relationship between the parents and the child, what went on, what is going on and overall how did the decision come about.
So there are probably several topics to choose from, I did this on purpose so hopefully this thread will not be easily de-railed. Especially when posting becomes contentious.
Examples of topics;
1. Parents being neglectful- abandoning their child
2. Parents being overwhelmed- feeling of hopeless, scared, not knowing what to do
3. Parents being tired of being parents- drug addictions/alcohol, divorce, boyfriends and girlfriends
4. Parents being manipulated by programs- gullible or tricked
5. Parents being incapable of being parents- emotional/mental issues, physical issues, financial issues
6. Parents not being able to control child-  Child with severe emotional/ mental handi-caps, ei; severe bi-polar, ADHD, autism, violent personality disorder, rebellion issues, severe drug and alcohol use, truancy....ect.

Why are so many parents placing there kids in various programs. I believe some of the reasons are above, if not what say you.


I know that you mentioned parents exclusively, but in my case, I also had a guardian ad litem, so I will include her briefly as well.

That was clearly a oversight.


As we're likely to find in most situations, it wasn't a single factor involved, but many, interwoven.

Definitely..




1. My parents willingly signed custody of me over to the authorities. While I believe they were doing this on the best advice they had at the time, it is still abandonment.

My parents did something similar, first it was a ward of the state, then it was to a guardian. Yes it was abandonment.

2. Absolutely my parents were overwhelmed. They didn't know how to cope with my suicidal behavior any more than I did, which is unfortunate but I think it was the nature of the beast in my case.

My parents did not know how to deal with my severe ADHD and Dyslexia, neither did I. My parents were getting a divorce every weekend it seemed, the dysfunction in our household was just sick. No other way to say it.

3. Contributing to my parents' feeling of overwhelm was their impending divorce.

Contributing to my parents overwhelm was there unresolved personal problems.

4. I wanted to include my guardian ad litem here, because if we assume she was not taking kick backs from the facility (since that conjecture was not proven one way or another since she just vanished after finding the placement), she honestly believed it would be a better alternative placement for me.

I don't think my guardian received any kickback he just felt he was doing the right thing for a messed up kid.


5. My mother was heavily into her drug and alcohol at the time as well, so she didn't have the mental or emotional resources to cope with my behavior as well.

My dad was drinking heavily and my mom was severely depressed on scripts. So yeah, drugs and alcohol.

6. As I mentioned earlier in this list, my suicidal behavior was out of control. I couldn't control it, behavior contracts couldn't control it, and multiple hospitalizations couldn't deter it.



So, I guess the answer is: "Yes." I was pretty much screwed.

Wow, this is very much my story.
I do know this, if my parents could have been there for me my experiences definitely would have been better. I have 2 sisters that raised boys with similar handi-caps and they were there all the way to adulthood assisting them, what a difference.


Hedge, I have been following your postings, they have triggered memories/experiences I had myself. Some dead on and some just a outline of a experience I had.
I will say this, growing up with parents that did not do there job and inflicted scars, sucked. They probably did the only thing they could by sending me away, they did not know what to do.
My mom told me years after Elan, that she was afraid that I would inadvertently kill myself with drugs. Lo and behold I got honest with her and told her about my overdoses, prior to going away to Elan. I was trying to kill myself with my life style.
Thanks for responding.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 09:23:31 AM »
What amazes me is that the pro-program people here automatically assume that there was a legitimate reason for kids to be shipped off.  Most of the kids in Straight were just normal teens and didn't need that kind of harsh 'treatment' or any treatment at all (I can think of only 2 or 3 that had real problems).  As I've said before, I was the lightweight of my group and the only one sent to Straight.  Straight told my parents that not only me, but all my friends would be DIJ and it was so contradictory that the "worse" ones who didn't go ended up doing just fine....they grew out of their 'bad' behavior.  I, OTOH, ended up having more problems after getting out than I did before going in.  Again, as I've said before, my father was an extremely controlling person and when my parents got divorced he couldn't handle the fact that he couldn't dictate what I did, so he found a place where they could.

Nobody gets out of adolescence unscathed and programs use that to scare parents into admitting their kids.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 09:58:32 AM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
What amazes me is that the pro-program people here automatically assume that there was a legitimate reason for kids to be shipped off.  Most of the kids in Straight were just normal teens and didn't need that kind of harsh 'treatment' or any treatment at all (I can think of only 2 or 3 that had real problems).  As I've said before, I was the lightweight of my group and the only one sent to Straight.  Straight told my parents that not only me, but all my friends would be DIJ and it was so contradictory that the "worse" ones who didn't go ended up doing just fine....they grew out of their 'bad' behavior.  I, OTOH, ended up having more problems after getting out than I did before going in.  Again, as I've said before, my father was an extremely controlling person and when my parents got divorced he couldn't handle the fact that he couldn't dictate what I did, so he found a place where they could.

Nobody gets out of adolescence unscathed and programs use that to scare parents into admitting their kids.

Based on what I have read it is a good thing that those places got shut down.  I consider myself more on the pro-program side than the anti-program side.  I am not speaking for other posters when I say I dont assume "all" kids were sent to a program for legitimate reasons.  I really dont like to speak in absolutes.  I cant speak for how things were back in the days of straight.  My more recent exposure to the industry has shown that the vast majority of the kids who are in programs need to be there and can benefit greatly from them.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2010, 10:21:23 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
I am not speaking for other posters when I say I dont assume "all" kids were sent to a program for legitimate reasons.

First, you'll notice that I said most, not all and you really can't deny that most do think that most kids 'deserve' to be shipped off.  "Max" is a perfect example.

Quote from: "Whooter"
 My more recent exposure to the industry has shown that the vast majority of the kids who are in programs need to be there and can benefit greatly from them.

Second, how do you come to that conclusion if you're just a "program parent" and not an EdCon?  Most of the parents I've dealt with and spoken to don't have a clue as to the need for others kids need to be sent away.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2010, 10:27:16 AM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

Second, how do you come to that conclusion if you're just a "program parent" and not an EdCon?  Most of the parents I've dealt with and spoken to don't have a clue as to the need for others kids need to be sent away.

From my exposure to and meeting other parents at ASR when my duaghter attended.  Reading here on fornits and other sites.  Reading Studies etc.  Maybe the parents you spoke to may be less involved in the place they sent their children to and therefore never spoke to the other parents in their childs peer group or spoke to other parents prior to placement.  I am not really sure why they wouldnt know the other parents.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2010, 10:47:33 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
From my exposure to and meeting other parents at ASR when my duaghter attended.  Reading here on fornits and other sites.  Reading Studies etc.  Maybe the parents you spoke to may be less involved in the place they sent their children to and therefore never spoke to the other parents in their childs peer group or spoke to other parents prior to placement.

I'm talking about parents putting their 2cents into other people's kids.

In Straight (and the many similar programs) it was required to have 'parent raps' 2 times a week and if any parent dared to question the methods, they were told to remove their kids from the program, which terrified the parents because they'd been taught the DIJ crap.

Quote from: "Whooter"
I am not really sure why they wouldnt know the other parents.

Isn't that a bit contradictory to what you wrote above (in bold)?  

I've spoken to parents who were extremely involved.  In fact, in Straight (and the many similar programs) it was pretty much required to be very involved and school the 'weak' parents (the ones who questioned Straight's methods) to get tougher on their kids.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2010, 11:00:38 AM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Whooter"
From my exposure to and meeting other parents at ASR when my duaghter attended.  Reading here on fornits and other sites.  Reading Studies etc.  Maybe the parents you spoke to may be less involved in the place they sent their children to and therefore never spoke to the other parents in their childs peer group or spoke to other parents prior to placement.

I'm talking about parents putting their 2cents into other people's kids.

In Straight (and the many similar programs) it was required to have 'parent raps' 2 times a week and if any parent dared to question the methods, they were told to remove their kids from the program, which terrified the parents because they'd been taught the DIJ crap.

Quote from: "Whooter"
I am not really sure why they wouldnt know the other parents.

Isn't that a bit contradictory to what you wrote above (in bold)?  

I've spoken to parents who were extremely involved.  In fact, in Straight (and the many similar programs) it was pretty much required to be very involved and school the 'weak' parents (the ones who questioned Straight's methods) to get tougher on their kids.

Hmmm, maybe the parents in straight (and other parents you spoke to) were not interested in why the other kids were placed there or their specific circumstances leading up to placement.  In my experience the one thing we all had in common was the placement of our kids, other than that we all came from different parts of the country and had little in common.  So we naturally talked about our kids and what lead up to their placements so I was familiar with the reasons kids were placed there and all were there for a good reason and would benefit from their stay.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2010, 11:05:35 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"

Hmmm, maybe the parents in straight (and other parents you spoke to) were not interested in why the other kids were placed there or their specific circumstances leading up to placement.

Same in Straight, but if the 'other' parent didn't say the 'right' thing then the 'good' parents 'set them straight' (no pun intended).

Quote from: "Whooter"
In my experience the one thing we all had in common was the placement of our kids, other than that we all came from different parts of the country and had little in common.

Same with Straight

 
Quote from: "Whooter"
So we naturally talked about our kids and what lead up to their placements so I was familiar with the reasons kids were placed there and all were there for a good reason and would benefit from their stay.

And what degree to you have to make a judgment like that?  As far as I know, only qualified professionals should be diagnosing people.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Whooter

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2010, 11:14:18 AM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

Second, how do you come to that conclusion if you're just a "program parent" and not an EdCon?  Most of the parents I've dealt with and spoken to don't have a clue as to the need for others kids need to be sent away.

Most of the parents I have spoken with have kids being placed in common so it is natural to know why the other kids were placed in programs.  It seems parents in straight or the ones you know dont speak to one another about why their children are there.



...
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Offline Dr Fucktard

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 11:24:16 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the parents I have spoken with have kids being placed in common so it is natural to know why the other kids were placed in programs.  It seems parents in straight or the ones you know dont speak to one another about why their children are there.



...

Sir, I am going to have to ask that you desist with your slandering the good name of SIBS.

You've been warned!
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 12:57:36 PM »
Quote from: "Dr Fucktard"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Most of the parents I have spoken with have kids being placed in common so it is natural to know why the other kids were placed in programs.  It seems parents in straight or the ones you know dont speak to one another about why their children are there.



...

Sir, I am going to have to ask that you desist with your slandering the good name of SIBS.

You've been warned!

 :rofl:
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Parents is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2010, 01:18:28 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"

Second, how do you come to that conclusion if you're just a "program parent" and not an EdCon?  Most of the parents I've dealt with and spoken to don't have a clue as to the need for others kids need to be sent away.

Most of the parents I have spoken with have kids being placed in common so it is natural to know why the other kids were placed in programs. It seems parents in straight or the ones you know dont speak to one another about why their children are there.

Well, you'd be wrong on that assumption.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Parents; Is it neglect, overwhelmed or tricked.
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 01:22:59 PM »
Anne I am not coming from a pro program point of view at all. I am just stating the facts of my childhood. Ironic thing about my parents was, they were extremely gifted with intelligence, my Dad was borderline genius and my Mother held a Phd in Education, my Dad also held a Phd in Aerospace Metallurgy. They were just sick and needed help and would not get it.
The reality is, I was sent away often, too much, I have not even mentioned the private schools I was sent to. I was fighting back against my parents abuse the best I could, it just took a toll on me. Being as young as I was and wanting my parents affection, validation and admiration and never getting it, the rejection was just to overwhelming for me.
I believe this is why when I found drugs and alcohol I took to it like a baby on a breast, the self medicating qualities were just to much to ignore for me.
In a weird sort of way the friends I made at Elan, I bonded to quickly and with no restraint, I felt the same from others. It was like we finally found others like us, families screwed up, we being hooked on drugs, smashed dreams and wanting to fit in somewhere.
I am so happy to here all the people you (Anne) have met from Straight, were not screwed up and had no problems at all but were still sent to Straight. Because I am sitting right now as I am typing with 5 guys and three of them were at Straight and they are saying they were "fucked up" prior to going to Straight, not that Straight helped them. Don't confuse what I am saying, please.
Anne, just because a lot of us were "fucked up" before we went to our programs, in no way makes it right that they abused us, absolutely not. I will never forget what Elan did to people there, ever.
Most of us turned out OK, though I will not put it all on Elan. Family problems, divorces, parental abuse, sibling abuse, society abuse and all these things add to people problems with life.
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