Author Topic: Looking for school advice  (Read 4085 times)

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Offline kezzy123

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« on: October 01, 2003, 11:46:00 PM »
I am looking for advice about school options for my troubled 14 yr old daughter.  I would like to get some info regarding what types of schools have the best success records as well as some recommendations for school in the southeast.  Here's what's going on:  About 2 yrs ago, our daughter started developing a rather defiant, disrespectful attitude toward her mother and me.  We weren't too concerned at the time because she great around everyone else.  Her grades were good, she excelled at soccer, and she hung with a good crowd.  Things steadily got worse.  Last year, she got caught with alcohol at school and was suspended and kicked off the soccer team.  The only thing that kept her out of jail was that they found no evidence - some other students turned her in.  Jump to present day - her grades have fallen (she spends hardly any time on school work outside of school), her new circle of friends are of questionable character, she is disrespectful to teachers and coaches, she is constantly in detention, consistently breaks house rules, is verbally cruel to her 8 yr old brother, and is extremely defiant, just to name a few.  She went to a therapist for a while but refuses to go anymore.  The therapist put her on some medication which she took for a while and now refuses to take anymore.  The last straw came a coupe of days ago when i confiscated some of her jewelry because she refused to go to church.  She became enraged and began smashing things around the house.  I let this go for a a few minutes and then had no choice but to physically restrain her.  When I thought she had calmed down, I let her go, and she tried to hit me with one of her crutches (she recently had knee surgery).  My son was so terrified that he ran from the house and I had to go looking for him.  This is not the first time that she has smashed and broken things.  One of the biggest problems that my wife and I face is that punishment does not work.  If she breaks a rule and gets punished, her behavior just gets worse.  Her mother and I have decided that the time has come to put her in some sort of theraputic boarding school or program.  we will of course have to wait a few months until she has recovered from her surgery.  We are considering a wilderness program or military school.  Problem is is that everything I seem to read indicates that most of these programs do more harm than good, there are abuse reports, etc.  I would like to hear some feedback from anyone who has had any positive experiences.  Thanks.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2003, 12:24:00 AM »
Copied from your earlier post:

sounds familiar...
Posted: 2003-04-16 07:16:00  
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The arm cutting is what prompted us to get her into counseling. She admitted that she was depressed and the counselor put her on Zoloft. That did seem to help some but our daughter, out of anger and defiance, dumped them down the drain recently and refuses to take them anymore. We are not trying to have someone else raise her. We feel that, among other things, an environment change, will benefit her. Our goal is to get her some help and get her back.
--------------------------------------------

Re: Self-Mutilation: Has your child ever been screened for a personality disorder such as borderline? Please go to the following website and do some research on this illness and what kinds of treatment are available, including the latest and most promising therapy develped by Dr. Lineman. Should your daughter have a personality disorder and be placed in the wrong program, the results could be catostrophic.  Good luck, I hope you find a way to help your daughter without having to separate her from her family.  She is only 14 years old .....

http://www.bpdcentral.com
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2003, 03:29:00 AM »
Sounds like she is a normally kid growing up drugged on prozac.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2003, 11:10:00 AM »
Sir,  

Contrary to what others may think,there are some excellent options for assisting with your present family crisis.It appears your daughter is in need of help.For a compassionate,understanding person to speak with: 1-866 798-2285

I suggest that you never trust blindly,have faith, quality help is available. Best of luck.

P.S. Stay FAR away from any Teen Help /WWASP program. Far, far away.....
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2003, 12:40:00 PM »
Who does this number belong to?  http://www.purerebuttal.com????????  Stay far, far away from them.  This is NOT the board to come to if you're looking for unbiased advice on a boarding school.  They're ALL bad.
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Offline FaceKhan

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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2003, 03:03:00 PM »
Perhaps you should try to find a therapist she likes. They are not one-size fits all like these programs are.

A key rule in mental health is to provide treatment in the least invasive way possible that means you don't force someone into residential treatment unless they represent an imminent danger to themselves or others.

It sounds like your daughter is just really unhappy and sending her away would probably just make her feel abandoned. Sending her to one of these programs which are barely more than prisons is only going to make things worse. A short term bootcamp or wildnerness program may show an improvement innitially but the results wear off pretty fast. If the program is run well she will probably come home talking about how amazing it was but after a few months the glamour wears off.

Long term programs just isolate the kid so the program can lie to the parents about her progress. There are parents who come and post here that have not seen their kid in 2 years and insist they are doing great. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.


Best course is to find a therapist she likes and if she is not interested in medicating the problem then she should go to one who will respect her wishes. This can't be your therapist, it has to be hers.

Most of those drugs are rather unpleasant to take and its not surprising she wanted off of them.
A 14 year old has enough weirdness going on and those drugs can have all kinds of negative side effects.

Before you spend 20 thousand dollars sending her away (3 months of wildnerness or the first 4 months of gulag school ) you should consider the things that money can do in more positive reeinforcement.

20 thousand dollars can pay for most private schools. It can pay for a monthlong trip anywhere in the world for the whole familiy. Sometimes people just need a vacation, sometimes seperate ones :smile:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2003, 06:22:00 PM »
Kezzy - you seem to be looking for a "perfect" place for your daughter.  It sounds like you need to admit her somewhere - fast!  This is not normal teenage behavior in my eyes, does it feel like that to you?  I notice you wrote back in April - has anything changed, gotten worse?  There are plenty of good programs out there that are under 3000.00 a month that will give you both an opportunity to get help.  I had my son in a wwasp program - but there are others, I think, that offer help for the whole family.  I know what it feels like to ask for help when I couldn't do it by myself.  Some say keep it at home, but our kids have to be at home, be willing to live within the family values.  No teen, or person is perfect, so never expect perfection, keep the communication open if your kid is even open to talking, not yelling. Identify if the behaviors, in your eyes, are normal teen behavior. Your kid is in control and you seem to be lowering your standards(by allowing this behavior in your home) to get along. You can't make her cooperate with therapy, but you can make a different choice in what you're willing to put up with.  No one wants to admit their child to a program, but sometimes that is what it takes.  You can't give your family a better gift if you find one that, at least, feels like the right fit.  
Any program out there has the same abuse allegations.  And, I wouldn't doubt, by what you wrote, that your daughter would say the same things.  If you find something, go visit, talk to the teens there, both lower and upper level kids and talk to the parents of those kids if they are  willing to give you some references.

If it's truly beyond taking care of her at home, it's time to get over your fear of what you read.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2003, 10:36:00 PM »
Kezzy---The problem with residential treatment programs for troubled teens is the same problem with  finding a good Multi-Level Marketing program to invest in or work for:  It *may* be possible to build a MLM program that's not a scam, it *may* be possible to run a "troubled teen" school that's not a scam, but when you get into a game where it's common and easy for con men to scam your money and only provide the superficial appearance of "help" and "improvement" to your teen---while ultimately leaving her worse---then chances are you're going to get scammed if you play their game *at all*.

The *first* thing you need to do is *you* and your wife go into family therapy with a *good* therapist who isn't just interested in telling you what you want to hear.  Deal with your own problems---because anything in your daughter's behavior that's coming from some of *your* problems that are crazy-making for your daughter will not be fixed by lesser measures.

I don't always agree with Dr. Laura on everything, but she has some good advice on getting control of a troubled teen.  Strip her room.  Put all her clothes and stuff in a U-Store-It facility.  Get her some cheap white T-shirts, cheapo jeans, cheap sneakers, plain white sheets, plain blankets, feed her plenty of nutritious but boring food.  

You are legally required to provide a roof, adequate food, adequate clothing---take her down to the legal minimum and make her earn the rest back.  But make it reasonable and *possible* for her to earn the rest back.

The difference between *you* doing that and some "program" doing that is that *you* will not, of course, deprive your child of adequate nutritious (even if boring) food, or needed medical care, or appropriate education----and a "program" very well might.  Plenty of programs *have*.  

If she gets violent with the family, call the police and press charges.  Juvie is less damaging than many of these scam troubled teen schools---the cons are so good at conning, you aren't going to be able to tell the difference between a good school and a bad con.

Now, if your daughter has a major mental illness, like major depression, bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia, which is making her violent, then she may need inpatient treatment for a limited time---but in a *real* mental hospital, not a restrictive boarding school full of underqualified pseudo shrinks.

If your daughter flunks repeated drug tests for a physically addictive drug or cocaine, or is an alcoholic, she may need inpatient treatment for a limited time---but in a *real* 12 step drug addiction program, not a restrictive boarding school full of underqualified pseudo shrinks.

If your daughter is not mentally ill or actually addicted, and is criminally violent at home anyway, then she is, sadly enough, better off in the juvenile criminal justice system---not a restrictive boarding school full of underqualified pseudo shrinks.

If she's not got a major mental illness, an actual drug addiction, and isn't committing actual criminal acts (not just status offenses), then residential treatment is a copout and an abdication of your responsibility to your child.

Nobody said teenagers were supposed to be fun to live with.  Get your own psychological quirks in order, apply discipline by restricting her privileges, do your best to find a therapist she can form a rapport with, and if she's still a pill at eighteen, kick her out and let her learn from the school of hard knocks---it'll do her less harm in the long run than a bad scam program would.

Sure, programs will promise you phenomenal success rates----Too good to be true success rates---which is the best touchstone for a con-game known to mankind: "If it sounds too good to be true---it is."

Quit looking for "too good to be true" answers and cope.  If it was easy, they wouldn't need you.

Not what you want to hear.

So? You're a grown up.  Deal.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2003, 10:47:00 PM »
Anon - you are not using Dr. Laura's philosophy, you're using ToughLove's philosophy.  You know what that got me...a kid that didn't come home because he had nothing to come home to - no door on his room, nothing but a mattress on the floor.

I chose not to call the police because the juvie here is full of criminals that would have butt-fucked him - he was a very cute 14 y.o - and I knew the truth as I had toured earlier that month.

Like it was said - if you want honest non-biased advice on a boarding school option - don't waste your time here.  Go to struggling teens or wwasps or do a search for teen crisis help or solutions and you'll see what's out there.
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Offline kezzy123

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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2003, 10:48:00 PM »
I would truly like to get the whole family into couseling but again, my daughter refuses to go and I cannot force her.  And if I take away a privelege or something as punishment for not going, her behavior just gets worse.  It doesn't help matters any that my wife does not believe in counseling either.  Our daughter has been grounded numerous times but after a day or two my wife will lift the grounding saying that she can't stand to have our daaughter in the house and just wants her to go somewhere with friends for a while.  I think the primary problem that we have is that our daughter is very, very immature for her age.  And she just doesn't get the concept of rules and the punishment for breaking them.  I can't count the number of times that we have handed down a punishment, for example taking away her internet access for a week, just to have her ask the next day for it back and truly not understand when I say no.  She will do things like, after getting in trouble for repeatedly being on the phone later than we allow and then ask for her own phone line.  Our rules are simple.  But she has stated many times that she doesn't think there should be any rules and that she should be able to do whatever she wants.  So my wife and I are feeling that maybe whe should spend some time somewhere where she will realize that things at home really aren't that bad.  And we need some peace.  The last 2 years have put a strain on our family, marriage, jobs, and health.  My wife is constantly worried sick and has stated several times that she has considered leaving.  Our son is constantly getting the short end of the stick because we have to put so much time and energy towards dealing with his sister that we have very little left for him.  There is a lot more to this story that could feel volumes but I'll end it here for now.  Thanks to all who have responded.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2003, 10:54:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-10-02 19:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Kezzy---The problem with residential treatment programs for troubled teens is the same problem with  finding a good Multi-Level Marketing program to invest in or work for:  It *may* be possible to build a MLM program that's not a scam, it *may* be possible to run a "troubled teen" school that's not a scam, but when you get into a game where it's common and easy for con men to scam your money and only provide the superficial appearance of "help" and "improvement" to your teen---while ultimately leaving her worse---then chances are you're going to get scammed if you play their game *at all*.



The *first* thing you need to do is *you* and your wife go into family therapy with a *good* therapist who isn't just interested in telling you what you want to hear.  Deal with your own problems---because anything in your daughter's behavior that's coming from some of *your* problems that are crazy-making for your daughter will not be fixed by lesser measures.



I don't always agree with Dr. Laura on everything, but she has some good advice on getting control of a troubled teen.  Strip her room.  Put all her clothes and stuff in a U-Store-It facility.  Get her some cheap white T-shirts, cheapo jeans, cheap sneakers, plain white sheets, plain blankets, feed her plenty of nutritious but boring food.  



You are legally required to provide a roof, adequate food, adequate clothing---take her down to the legal minimum and make her earn the rest back.  But make it reasonable and *possible* for her to earn the rest back.



The difference between *you* doing that and some "program" doing that is that *you* will not, of course, deprive your child of adequate nutritious (even if boring) food, or needed medical care, or appropriate education----and a "program" very well might.  Plenty of programs *have*.  



If she gets violent with the family, call the police and press charges.  Juvie is less damaging than many of these scam troubled teen schools---the cons are so good at conning, you aren't going to be able to tell the difference between a good school and a bad con.



Now, if your daughter has a major mental illness, like major depression, bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia, which is making her violent, then she may need inpatient treatment for a limited time---but in a *real* mental hospital, not a restrictive boarding school full of underqualified pseudo shrinks.



If your daughter flunks repeated drug tests for a physically addictive drug or cocaine, or is an alcoholic, she may need inpatient treatment for a limited time---but in a *real* 12 step drug addiction program, not a restrictive boarding school full of underqualified pseudo shrinks.



If your daughter is not mentally ill or actually addicted, and is criminally violent at home anyway, then she is, sadly enough, better off in the juvenile criminal justice system---not a restrictive boarding school full of underqualified pseudo shrinks.



If she's not got a major mental illness, an actual drug addiction, and isn't committing actual criminal acts (not just status offenses), then residential treatment is a copout and an abdication of your responsibility to your child.



Nobody said teenagers were supposed to be fun to live with.  Get your own psychological quirks in order, apply discipline by restricting her privileges, do your best to find a therapist she can form a rapport with, and if she's still a pill at eighteen, kick her out and let her learn from the school of hard knocks---it'll do her less harm in the long run than a bad scam program would.



Sure, programs will promise you phenomenal success rates----Too good to be true success rates---which is the best touchstone for a con-game known to mankind: "If it sounds too good to be true---it is."



Quit looking for "too good to be true" answers and cope.  If it was easy, they wouldn't need you.



Not what you want to hear.



So? You're a grown up.  Deal."


Well said, anon.  Family Therapy is definitly in order and would help to prevent this girl from becoming the SCAPEGOAT like so many other kids who end up in these programs because their parents can't as you say "deal".

 :tup:
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Offline kezzy123

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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2003, 11:12:00 PM »
I must have been posting while Anon was also posting about stripping her room.  I had actually considered something similar.  My thought was to actually back off and treat her as if she was a renter in our house with some exceptions due to the law.  My thought was to tell her that her moother and I will no longer nag at her about her school work.  If she fails, she attends summer school or gets held back.  She's old enough to know what she needs to do and do it.  We will provide what the law requires an nothing more.  We will buy her clothes when absolutely necessary but they won't be coming from Abercrombie, Foot Locker, etc.  Kmart will do.  We will provide her with nutricious food but she is old enough to cook it herself.  Her clothes will be clean only if she does her own laundry.  The law does not require that she does chores nor does it require that we give her money for movies and the like.  If she wants money, then she can do jobs around the house for minimum wage.  If she wants a ride somewhere then she will pay us 35 cents per mile.  We are not required to provide her with internet access but she can have it as long as she pays part of the bill.  The list can go on and on.  She will have the freedom she wants as long as it does not disrupt the household and as long as she does not break any laws.  There will of course still be some rules like curfew.  Thoughts?  My wife thinks this is ridiculous.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2003, 11:16:00 PM »
Kezzy---The problem here is *NOT* your daughter.

The problem is that you and your wife are in total disagreement on parenting styles and aren't listening to each other and coming to a truly mutual agreement and backing each other up.

No kid is going to be a good, stable, well disciplined kid in that environment unless she's a one in one hundred natural saint.

You may *believe* you're coming to a mutual agreement---but obviously you're not----you may hammer at the idea until your wife shuts up and gives in, but she gets you back and gets her way back by refusing to enforce the parts of your discipline she just doesn't agree with.

This is not a daughter problem.

This is a crazy-making parents screwy marriage problem.

You need to go to counseling and learn how to communicate with your wife so that if she doesn't agree with you you *hear* her and negotiate until the two of you genuinely reach a compromise you both can live with, instead of her saying what she needs to say to get you off her back and then doing what *she* thinks is right for you guys' daughter.

Quit blaming your daughter.  The problem is in your marriage and is between you and your wife.

Sending your daughter away somewhere isn't going to fix it, because when she comes home she'll *still* be living in the crazy, inconsistent environment that is your marriage.

I notice that you are convinced that you are right and your wife is wrong.  That *may* be so.  More likely, you are at least *partly* wrong about *something*---so even if your wife won't go to counseling, *you* go.

In counseling, you can find out which bits *you* are wrong about, quit doing them, and at least make your kid's environment that tiny bit more sane---which is likely to pay dividends in the kid's behavior.

I tend to suspect you the Dad have a problem, because usually it's a teen son that twists Mommy around the finger, and a teen daughter that twists Daddy around the finger.  Teenage years are typically a time of great friction between same sex parent and teen.  If your wife is championing your daughter like you say she is, then chances are you getting counseling and fixing your problems may improve your homelife a lot----even if your wife and daughter don't get counseling for their problems, without your problems in the mix, your life will improve.

Go see a good family therapist and work on your own problems, including your marriage, before you consider residential placement of the daughter.
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Offline kezzy123

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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2003, 11:17:00 PM »
One last thing I'd like to see if anyone has had any experience with.  It is a school that my daughter's school counselor told me about last year.  The state has a residential boarding school that is part of the state school system.  A wilderness program is also incorporated into it.  Being part of the schoo system means that everyone that works there is certified in their fields (counselors, teachers, etc) and it is state regulated.  I plan to visit it soon.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2003, 11:18:00 PM »
It looks great on paper - good for you if you are committed to enforcing this.  But if either one of you is co-dependent or an enabler it won't work.  She'll push you, but you are the parent, not her friend.  She chose to lose her priviledges by her actions.  Good luck to you both.
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