Considering full moderation

[psy]

AA could go here > viewforum.php?f=59  This would be fine .

No.. put AA way down at the bottom of the forum please. Make Ursus the moderator as well.

Haven't seen Ursus around in a while.  When Ursus comes back we'll discuss it.  It's likely we'll have global moderators, though (for all forums).

[Inculcated]

Please stay on topic and do not personally attack or attempt to intimidate participating members of this message board.

First warning.

Hold up now.  The rules aren't in place yet and i'm not sure who I'll be selecting as moderators.

IDK, but I think SEKTO's sense of levity might not have translated in text w/ that…but I thought it was funny.

[Che Gookin]

AA could go here > viewforum.php?f=59  This would be fine .

No.. put AA way down at the bottom of the forum please. Make Ursus the moderator as well.

Haven't seen Ursus around in a while.  When Ursus comes back we'll discuss it.  It's likely we'll have global moderators, though (for all forums).

Hmm, interesting.

[SEKTO]

Please stay on topic and do not personally attack or attempt to intimidate participating members of this message board.

First warning.

Hold up now.  The rules aren't in place yet and i'm not sure who I'll be selecting as moderators.

IDK, but I think SEKTO's sense of levity might not have translated in text w/ that…but I thought it was funny.

Yes, that was pointed sarcasm.

[psy]

here's a draft consitution:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31104

[DannyB II]

Listen if you folks want AA, so far down it is below the cellar, so your contempt can subside. I would be more then happy to swill around in the leach field moderating the forum.
No, not to push AA's agenda but to finally acknowledge AA's influence in the TTI. Straight was built on AA's 12 steps, well I see a forum for Straight, (well you don't have Straight w/o AA). We also have the Orange Papers, Vailiants opinions, the cult argument, thought reform, other AA inspired TC's still operating.
Guys whether we like it or not AA is here to stay. It is a vital piece of the TTI.
I have said this before and I will say it again. I am no longer a member of AA officially, meaning, I don't go to meetings with a definite purpose and/or participate in AA. I have not for several years. I found no more need for AA on a continuousness bases. If any one would like to know more feel free to ask on the forum.

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Whooter]

The rules sound great, but why not ban Whooter?The reason is not because of his stance on programs but because he is a saboteur, a gifted one. I think the loss of traffic and the decline of Fornits is partially due to in-fighting and crazy ass personal dynamics. It seems that what used to be confined to the Elan forum - which was all about flamewars - spilled out into other threads.  Then, around 2006, personal info was leaked and administrators lost credibility (sorry, but true). That diminished the site. The lack of anonymity could be a factor, as well. No guest posting.  But I think also, the Who is a derailer. Who wants to visit their favorite threads when the Whooter derails persistently, gleefully, pervasively, repeatedly, tirelessly, enduringly, and deceptively.  This is different than posting your views or just being an asshole.  

When someone asked about Fornits being a support site... it was sad. This place was a community prior to 2006. Now, there are the old loyalists but it's just basically devolved into flamewars and derailed tracks. Maybe me wishing for the old Fornits is like Cheech and Chong nostlagic for '69 but, it would be great if it were more of the community it used to be.

The rules sound great, but why not ban Samara? The reason is not because of her stance on programs but because she is a silent participant in the destruction of this forum.   I think the loss of traffic and the decline of Fornits is partially due to her apathy towards posters who spend their time hurting others and exposing their personal information rather than supporting those posters who contributed in a positive and constructive manner….. That diminished the site in my opinion.. But I think also, that Samara is an instigator. Samara is the “Grand Dragon”, she likes to wear the hood and carry a torch, but since she isn’t the one who kicks the horse, she feels she had nothing to do with the hanging and therefore feels justified in not taking responsibility….. “Who me?  I didn’t do anything wrong?”

She wants  me banned because she knows I know who she is and the type of person she has become.  Fornits was great in its earlier years and was eroded away slowly due to intolerance and closed mindedness like samara represents.  Fornits can again gain the traffic back if people can just accept each other’s opinions without being threatened and feel the need to attack rather than discuss.

It would be great if people could just learn to get along more and learn from each others experiences and points of view instead of being threatened by them and trying to change them.



...

[Evil WWASP]

Thanks for responding.

I'm glad for moderation. Even its not perfect, it's an improvement.
But it would be a bad move to ban people for "outing" victims and predators. There are clearly some cases where peoples' names have been posted for no good reason, that shouldnt be allowed, but there are other times where people are merely recounting thier time in program and naming thier fellow prisoners, of starting "free so and so" style campains and movements. It's not fair to ask victims or anyone to "keep secrets."

I totally agree.  See my last post.

In the morgan case, regarding banning pile, you'd be banning him for what he did on other forums. Is that really you guys' place? Youre going to moderate and punish people for what they do in their private time? Not good.

Oh. He won't be punished retroactively for that or be banned.  If he does it again after the rules are put in place, that's a different story.  We're not going to punish people for what they post off the forum but if they link to personal identifying information from this forum i'll consider that the same as posting it on the forum itself.

 I see your points. The problem I see there is then we couldn't link to "free so and so campaigns" and such. We couldn't even post names of teens who commit suicide post incarceration or in program. Should fornits administrators really demand posters to be "secret keepers," not able to even link to identities’ intricate in this abomination and bury their terrible secret knowledge? I appreciate that it is embarrassing to be exposed as a child abuser for former staff(Joel), I appreciate it is embarrassing for program parents to be exposed as criminals, I appreciate that, in the pile case, that maybe everyone involved wanted what was transpiring to be done secretly. But I don't see why that's fornits posters' burden of secrets to carry...at least not to the point they can't even link to another site about it

Yes, there is no place for outing people when it is done because one fornits participant or a cult member is annoyed by purely by the speech of another or a "heretic," (the most obvious example of that being what goes on in the Elan forum. )Sure, to a certain extent the difference subjective call but to make things objective, don't throw out the baby with bathwater. Am I making sense?

Speaking of "seeming sane," please don't put up a forum solely dedicated to AA. Reading your (you and Antigen's) thoughts on AA, it's clear you have some "far out" opinions on the matter..and if you put up a forum, that would move your thoughts on AA from your opinion realm to official fornits position-(one that the majority of cult victim/program survivors /fornits goers don;t appear to share.)

I was considering a "drug treatment philosophies" forum instead of one naming AA specifically.  It could be a forum for AA, RR, SOS, SMART and discussion of the relative benefits and downsides.  It would also be opt-in.

And how do you think that will make the claims on this forum appear regarding brainwashing and cults? Its also insulting to victims to equate wwasp or CEDU with AA, which is what you'd be doing, kinda, if you set up its own forum.

Right, but even defenders of AA such as Danny argue that AA and the 12 step philosophy has influenced this industry.  It's going to be discussed no matter what and it would be great to have a dedicated place for it.

Well, to digress, I dont think AA has been much of an influence on the industry, I think that's just the outwardly acceptable veneer some cult prisons use to hide behind, or the particular "pet ideas" they use to abuse or force on captive teens. (Kinda like WWASP and Mormonism. Do you follow me?) It's more about what they do then what they call it. But, yes, you are right, obviously people are going to talk about it.

Your idea about a general non-committal "drug treatment philosophies" would be a great way to partition A.A. from the rendition cults, or majority age oriented "treatment cults" aimed at coercing young vulnerable people into institutionalization (Benchmark), and treatment cults in general. Perfect. No one would write fornits of as a conspiracy kook forum that way, which is my fear, because, without taking a position here, not titling the forum carefully could be like having a Mormonism forum..the implication being Mormonism is a cult or a "teen program."

Really, there are only two prolific trolls Suckit and Whooter, just ban them and get it over it. And when they reappear, ban them again. Other moderation will just be iciing on the cake

Only if they break the rules, and it's impossible to define trolling.  Neither will be banned if they stay within the rules.

I see. Sure thing.

[Samara]

Whoo - yeah, vote to ban me. That would be sort of dumb though. I'll never be the insincere shell of a human that you are. You stick around with your repeated lies against me and others, your Machiavellian tactics, and your derailment patterns, not to mention your consensus building puppet posts (responding to yourself.) I have not resorted to these tactics. I have also not practiced apathy. You already know that, though, you have even apologized for accusing me of apathy regarding Morgan when the opposite was true.  Maybe you have Alzheimer's? Whatever, you subsequently and predictably went back to lying.

It's funny you would compare me to the Grand Master when I have never physically or psychologically abused anyone in my life. And yet you advocate sticking every wayward youth in your emotional rape compounds. And you certainly wear your hood around here.

Am I apathetic? Toward you? No, I detest you, and I don't care what people say to you unless they endangered your family or physical well-being. But other than that, I'd take a hot headed asshole any day over someone as cold hearted as you have proven to be over the years.

[Whooter]

Whoo - yeah, vote to ban me. That would be sort of dumb though. I'll never be the insincere shell of a human that you are. You stick around with your repeated lies against me and others, your Machiavellian tactics, and your derailment patterns, not to mention your consensus building puppet posts (responding to yourself.) I have not resorted to these tactics. I have also not practiced apathy. You already know that, though, you have even apologized for accusing me of apathy regarding Morgan when the opposite was true.  Maybe you have Alzheimer's? Whatever, you subsequently and predictably went back to lying.

It's funny you would compare me to the Grand Master when I have never physically or psychologically abused anyone in my life. And yet you advocate sticking every wayward youth in your emotional rape compounds. And you certainly wear your hood around here.

Am I apathetic? Toward you? No, I detest you, and I don't care what people say to you unless they endangered your family or physical well-being. But other than that, I'd take a hot headed asshole any day over someone as cold hearted as you have proven to be over the years.

You have made my point.  You come on here and start personal attacks and then accuse me of derailment patterns.  If you read back I never brought your name up until you singled me out to be banned and started name calling.  You stood by silently while DJ posted anothers name address and phone number on the forum.  I pointed this out to you and you accept this behavior, yet you detest other people because they disagree with you.  Like I said you secretly like seeing people get hurt but you want to make sure you dont get soiled yourself and stay in the shadows while cheering them on.

None of us know for sure how many names you have posted under.  DJ claimed for years he never posted a single guest post and it turned out he had several aliases and posted 3,500 guest posts.  So until you have your posts exposed you shouldnt point fingers.
I dont like people like you, Samara, because you feel the rules dont apply to you, you are two faced and closed minded and feel there are no limits as long as it furthers your cause and you dont care how many people get hurt in the process.  You want people banned but claim immunity for the same behavior because you feel you are part of the majority and claim exemption status.



...

[Awake]

Ok, I am in favor of trying to improve things and the intent of the rules sound good, but I am skeptical at a glance. For myself I think we should have a little time to discuss and refine things, I don’t know what the timeline is, but I f I think we test the rules on a devoted thread and see if we can puroposely manipulate and test the boundaries regarding insults and civility and such with the current mods offering their judgement to weigh in on. I want a change for the better, but I have an itch that unforeseen problems are going to arise from this. Can there be a time period given to work out the bugs? Personally, I’d be in favor of a single username policy, but have an unmoderated section that also allowed guest posting. Some concerns I would have with rule change are the ability to be most functional, while maintaining fairness, and accessibility to new readers. The new rules sound good hearted, but the games against fornits are going to persist and they will be utilizing these rules to create disorganization, I think. So I think we should test them.

[Che Gookin]

I just want an AA forum where we can coordinate more flyer raids. I think we need to mobilize more people for that sort of thing and a dedicated moderated AA forum would be the perfect place to do it. I for one plan on emulating Botched once I return to the US and I plan on regularly flyering AA meetings in my community.

[Che Gookin]

Hahahahahaha... oh fuck, babies and bathwater. You're shitting us, right, Psy? You've got to be shitting us. Please tell me you are shitting us.

No.  I'm not.  Ginger and I made the final decision last night.  I'll be drafting up a new constitution for the forum tonight.  I'll post it publicly for comment, and then ratify it once it meets the group's majority approval.  Outing parents in the way you did before, resulting in a kid being sent to a program, is not going to happen again.  You think parents are likely to listen to anybody on the anti-program side after you out them?  You made us all look like lunatics.  It's unpleasant sometimes but parents ultimately hold the kid's fate in their hands and if it's necessary to hold your tongue and be diplomatic to prevent the kids being sent to programs, it's worth it.  In this one case, Whooter is absolutely right.  You have a good deal of responsibility to bear for Morgan being sent to a program.  Driving off parents for kicks won't be tolerated anymore on this forum.  You weren't even in a program.  What do you care, other than for the drama you feed off of.  As far as I can tell you're pretty much the only person objecting to this.

Actually, I'm all for outing parents who won't listen to reason. They need to be punished to serve as a warning to other idiot parents. The timing is what I object to in this case, but that's neither here nor there because Daniel Gauss, the asshole he is, was bound and determined to send his kid to a program long before anyone else got involved. Evidence collected from Morgan's friends show she's been stressing this issue for months. That's months of Daniel Gauss's opinions hardening on the merits of sending his daughter to a program. That's months of Morgan's mother consulting the spirit guides.

Parents should only be outed when it is abundantly clear that they just aren't going to listen.

Morgan really didn't have a chance in the first place, her fate was signed and sealed.

also, please don't ever make light of anyone being a program survivor or not. Some of the biggest supporters of Morgan at the moment haven't even stepped foot in a program. The majority of the people who signed onto help that are program survivors are too busy fucking around on fornits and reveling in their victim status. Most of the program survivors involved in the facebook group seem to busy weeping along with some pansy assed liberal agenda to send a god damn email, make a phone call, or to send a fax.

There are a few who are doing there bit, god bless them, but the majority are about as useful as tits on a wart hog.

[Samara]

Whoo -
1. Again, I was not present where DL posted numbers. I am absent for long periods, so I can't pretend I know what you are talking about.  I do not personally know DJ.  I never even knew the big hullaboo about your sorry ass because I did not track those threads. I am sorry I later took the time to figure it out, Tar Baby.

2. I NEVER cheer on people who post numbers or IDs. I don't even like it when Anne makes fun of Danny's spelling. And I like Anne. But two tango'd.

3. I don't secretly like people getting hurt. You can't even say what I secretly  like. Or are you Omniscient?   The people here who know me would fucking laugh hysterically at your characterization of me.  

4. The fact that you continue to lie about me is why I don't like you. You statements about not caring about anything but furthering my cause exemplifies how truly ignorant you are. As I've said, I've shown more restraint than the most. I HAVEN'T posted IDs or numbers, or misrepresented myself by responding to myself.  You don't even know what I think about programs, or troubled kids.

5. My attacks on you are targeted because you baldfacedly lied about me. When you lie about me, it is targeted. Of course, it's personal.  People who intentionally lie about other people are my biggest pet peeve, possibly superceding littering. The fact you brandish it proudly and repeatedly is like waving the red cape. I already know you are meaner, crueler, and more persistently so than I will ever be. I am sorry for the time I've spent defending myself from a person of your ilk. It is truly wasted... like trying to rehab a sociopath. Can't be done. The sad thing is you are so sick and twisted you enjoy it.  It is quite a feat, to beat out EVERY single person here at The Game you play. That's all it ever was for you. You don't care about kids. I don't even think you care that much about your own or you wouldn't be on this site so much. (I realize this last statment is a bit presumptuous, but I wanted to try out your style for once.  Not sure how you live with it.)

Peace out, sweetie.

(And yes, to everyone else, I'll stop responding to more of Who's posts.  If not ban me, he obviously wants to be here more than I do.)