Putting flyers on cars outside AA meetings?

[Botched Programming]

Botched, can I make a flier for you to put out for me? I heard of this chick who got raped after an AA meeting by her "sponsor".  I'll run down the information for you.

By all means Che... I will take them Friday to the church down the street They have an AA womens meeting that night... You have my personal email so shoot it to me,,,

[Che Gookin]

Done deal, will crank up photoshop and slick it up nicely with some background designs and such. I bet I can get a graphics designer I met here on fornits to help with a logo for you.

[Maximilian]

I've looked over the orange papers website before, it's interesting. I disagree, I think AA, at least for me was a very positive experience and I enjoyed it and the people a lot. Do you have any of the flyers scanned on your computer? It would be interesting to see what they look like, I'm curious now after hearing about it.

I am sincerely interested though, why do you think AA is so bad? Is it because the abusive program you were in used AA, or did you have other experiences with AA that made you feel this way? Obviously something must have happened, if you are motivated enough to pass out flyers on your own time.

Have you ever run into anybody while posting it on their car? Did they get upset, or were they open to what you had to say? Sorry for all the questions, this is the first time I've heard about this tactic before. Do you think it works, has anybody contact you and said thanks for the flyer, I don't go to AA any longer? I'd love to hear some stories about how you do this, and what happens if you run into people or something. Like I said, I like AA but I find this interesting and am open to hearing your opinions on AA. What makes me curious most of all, is what happened that was so bad at AA that would give someone this kind of motivation? Thanks

Max... I will attempt to answer all of your questions if I miss anything I am not evading questions, just ask me and I will answer you to the best of my ability... I will remain quiet as this is personal info that I care not to devulge wide open on the internet with as it is no body's buisness other than mine and whoever else I feel confortable sharing it with.

To address if I have the paper scanned into my computer, I have several drafts as I update material so they are not seeing the same info over and over... I give them stuff to piece together... Makes some of the oldtimers actually question their own words in meetings.. seen it happen first hand as I went to a meeting and saw a guy with double digit years share about the papers that he has read and even commented how it had him not sure of some things.

As far as getting caught by any, they have seen me putting out flyers but they assume it is a restraunt menu or something,,, remeber I live in FL. I tend to make sure that everyone is inside and sometime I go in and act like I was just late for the meeting... remember seated from prayer to prayer..

Why do I not like 12 step groups in genereral, well I really feel all 12 step groups are cults, most people do not end up in a meeting just because thier lives are peachy perfect, through working their so called steps they tear down a persons individuality, proceed to trying to instill in their minds that with the first whatever they are going to die, and if a person does choose to partake, they get flooded by shame and guilt. Been to to many meetings see it regularly here with all the dang halfway houses for all the industry treatment centers that ship their products here.

As far as my experiences in 12 step groups, I refrain from answering... You have to be a friend or loved one for me to talk to you about  that... No offense... I don't know you.. Anonimity.


My motivation for it comes from how treatment centers either bastardize the steps and try to use them to break down a client and make them submit to a fucked up way of thinking...they must operate within the bounds of group think... they do not rely on their own instincts and survival skills..

Hope this answered most of your questions

Much peace and healing
 :peace:

Thanks for answering me. Do you feel that programs version of AA is what is going on in church AA meetings, though? I've never seen anyone forced to break down and submit in an AA meeting. It seemed like it was just people sharing their stories, and trying to support one another. Do you think AA works for anybody? I've known people who credit AA with saving their life, that's why I ask. Do you ever feel like you might be sabotaging somebody's recovery by giving them an excuse to go back to drinking? Like, they might say "oh AA is a cult, I knew it! Guess I'll go get drunk!" Do you believe some people have problems with alcohol that they need help, and might not be able to afford a nice rehab center?

I'm asking these in good faith, I'm not looking to turn this into a political battle about AA. I am just curious as how you perceive it, and the people that attend AA meetings. I guess because it's adults who choose to go, and choose to believe in something that works for them, I don't see what the harm is. It's kind of like religion, it seems to help a lot of people, even if it's been bastardized in the past, like you said the 12 steps were, to do harm to some people. I'm wondering, a lot of people believe in God, and religion and the afterlife. What if you were a scientist, and you happened to discover the proof that there is, in fact, no immortal souls, we completely cease to exist at death. Would you offer this proof up, and ruin many people's beliefs that seem to comfort them, or would you keep this information to yourself?

[DannyB II]

Strange, I haven't heard anyone actually suggest that...

..until you just did.

...

11/10

Really? Don't you read the threads you start? Believe me I couldn't make something that absurd up out of the blue.

From the Primer for the Uninitiated thread, Che gookin said this:

I'd hate to see you become the next fornits member to join the Whooter Patrol and piss away hour after hour doing nothing much of anything useful. Those are hours you can spend slipping anti-AA flyers under windshields at your nearest AA meeting. You've done this before, you posted that you felt incredibly liberated by the experience.

Perhaps Che Gookin was just joking around, ironically suggesting that arguing with Whooter is a waste of time just like slipping flyers beneath people's cars? I have no idea, but this is where I saw it and thought to myself, WTF is this all about? I've worked putting flyers beneath people's windshields for businesses, and it sucks hardcore, I can't imagine anybody doing this on their own time. Most people just throw them away, I'd watch them do it and think to myself, damn that was a waste of time ,but at least I was getting paid by the hour!!

Nope Che is not joking about this... It is something I have done for years now... I have editided a bunch of information from the Orange Papers that will leave an newcomer and sometimes a seasoned AA member to question what they are doing at the meetings... Take a look at my footer where it says "AA is a cult" and I have a link to the Orange Papers webby... Take a gander at it for your self...


Peace and much healing

 :peace:

BP, what happened. Seriously just what in gods name happened to you. Don't blame it on a program either. Dude you are a certified "whack job" and I am not kidding.
Che, is a fucking idiot and your listening to him. Hey, try this. Tell Che to hump his ass from meeting to meeting placing a flyers under wind shields.
BP, do you also go to Baptist Churches and do the same thing.
Last, go to your local T/C program and place flyers under their windshields.
Don't be a stooge.

(1) It's none of your business... I don't know you.

OH, it is my business when you are talking out of your ass about AA here.

(2) I was doing this way before Che knew anything about it.. I turned him on to the idea

I find that hard to believe but anything is possible.

(3) just because it.s a church don.t mean anything... Any orginization can rent a room from a church for meetings..meetings are not affiliated with the church in any way...

I was talking about if you go to Churches on Sundays and put flyers on windshields telling folks the same thing you want to tell folks going to AA.

(4) I am so sorry your brain is all fucked up with stepcult group think.

I never went to a stepcult or craft program, you did my friend.

(5) Most important...FUCK YOU!!!

Well, hell yeah.

[DannyB II]

So are you getting paid by the hour to post on a forum where everyone hates you with good reason?

That sounds like a much worse job than going around depositing flyers.

Pile no one hates Max, that is a fact. You and your disgusting behavior with a young memeber, well that is something totally different.

[Botched Programming]

Done deal, will crank up photoshop and slick it up nicely with some background designs and such. I bet I can get a graphics designer I met here on fornits to help with a logo for you.

Hey man got that flyer youve got... I will put some work on it with my photoshop give it some good graphics.. and adopt it into my format... This is going to be some good stuff for the ladies to read... I am going to try it out on the womens group first and watch from across the street at my friends house to see thei reactions... Will let you know how it works out..

Peace and much healing
 :peace:

[none-ya]

You will be posting it here so we can all see?

[Botched Programming]

Thanks for answering me. Do you feel that programs version of AA is what is going on in church AA meetings, though? I've never seen anyone forced to break down and submit in an AA meeting. It seemed like it was just people sharing their stories, and trying to support one another. Do you think AA works for anybody? I've known people who credit AA with saving their life, that's why I ask. Do you ever feel like you might be sabotaging somebody's recovery by giving them an excuse to go back to drinking? Like, they might say "oh AA is a cult, I knew it! Guess I'll go get drunk!" Do you believe some people have problems with alcohol that they need help, and might not be able to afford a nice rehab center?

I'm asking these in good faith, I'm not looking to turn this into a political battle about AA. I am just curious as how you perceive it, and the people that attend AA meetings. I guess because it's adults who choose to go, and choose to believe in something that works for them, I don't see what the harm is. It's kind of like religion, it seems to help a lot of people, even if it's been bastardized in the past, like you said the 12 steps were, to do harm to some people. I'm wondering, a lot of people believe in God, and religion and the afterlife. What if you were a scientist, and you happened to discover the proof that there is, in fact, no immortal souls, we completely cease to exist at death. Would you offer this proof up, and ruin many people's beliefs that seem to comfort them, or would you keep this information to yourself?

Max... I will work on answering some of these for you tomorrow as I don't want Danny blowing a 50 amp fuse tonight... His employer may need him tomorrow.

Peace and much healing
 :peace:

[photo man]

- Baby bong -  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:   ::OMG::  ::OMG::

[DannyB II]

Done deal, will crank up photoshop and slick it up nicely with some background designs and such. I bet I can get a graphics designer I met here on fornits to help with a logo for you.

Hey man got that flyer youve got... I will put some work on it with my photoshop give it some good graphics.. and adopt it into my format... This is going to be some good stuff for the ladies to read... I am going to try it out on the womens group first and watch from across the street at my friends house to see thei reactions... Will let you know how it works out..

Peace and much healing
 :peace:

Ya exactly what I thought Che and yourself stalking ladies at AA meeting and threatening them with rape stories. Then standing across the street laughing at their reactions. This is your idea of helping people.
Like I said  BP, your a total fucking "whack job".

[Botched Programming]

You will be posting it here so we can all see?

May take me till Thursday to get it done as I need to find some related links from Orange Papers and do more research so I can give links on the pages so that they can look on the webby's and see it is not a bunch of made up stuff... The fliers that I make up get changed up quite a bit... that way it is like a puzzle for their minds to try to put together.... You can't just go in the flier and say AA is a Cult... there has to be reason and purpose that they think it...And then towards the end their minds are open to grasping the concept of the truth that AA is a cult... Once I am done I will send you personally a copy of it... Don't want to post it and give fuel for a troll fire... As you already see we have a troll by the name of Danny already trying to show us a vulgar diplay of how his cult think mind works... He's a sicko psyco.

Peace and much healing
 :peace:

[photo man]

- Program cake / blow up doll  blow up doll - :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:         :sue:

[Botched Programming]

Done deal, will crank up photoshop and slick it up nicely with some background designs and such. I bet I can get a graphics designer I met here on fornits to help with a logo for you.

Hey man got that flyer youve got... I will put some work on it with my photoshop give it some good graphics.. and adopt it into my format... This is going to be some good stuff for the ladies to read... I am going to try it out on the womens group first and watch from across the street at my friends house to see thei reactions... Will let you know how it works out..

Peace and much healing
 :peace:

Ya exactly what I thought Che and yourself stalking ladies at AA meeting and threatening them with rape stories. Then standing across the street laughing at their reactions. This is your idea of helping people.
Like I said  BP, your a total fucking "whack job".

Hey Danny I go SA (Sex Annonymous) meetings and hang outside waiting for the women who relapse.... So Again I must say..FUCK YOU.....Danny !!!!

[photo man]

- BBW bondage -  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:   :sue:  :sue:  ::OMG::  ::OMG::

[Botched Programming]

AA

Thanks for answering me. Do you feel that programs version of AA is what is going on in church AA meetings, though? I've never seen anyone forced to break down and submit in an AA meeting. It seemed like it was just people sharing their stories, and trying to support one another. Do you think AA works for anybody? I've known people who credit AA with saving their life, that's why I ask. Do you ever feel like you might be sabotaging somebody's recovery by giving them an excuse to go back to drinking? Like, they might say "oh AA is a cult, I knew it! Guess I'll go get drunk!" Do you believe some people have problems with alcohol that they need help, and might not be able to afford a nice rehab center?

I'm asking these in good faith, I'm not looking to turn this into a political battle about AA. I am just curious as how you perceive it, and the people that attend AA meetings. I guess because it's adults who choose to go, and choose to believe in something that works for them, I don't see what the harm is. It's kind of like religion, it seems to help a lot of people, even if it's been bastardized in the past, like you said the 12 steps were, to do harm to some people. I'm wondering, a lot of people believe in God, and religion and the afterlife. What if you were a scientist, and you happened to discover the proof that there is, in fact, no immortal souls, we completely cease to exist at death. Would you offer this proof up, and ruin many people's beliefs that seem to comfort them, or would you keep this information to yourself?

(1) AA is just a watered down version of what the programs push..
(2)When a person arives to the door of any 12 step program they feel they have absolutely no hope. And to be honest cult propaganda can be very persuasive.When they start listening to the propaganda daily for 90 days their mind begins to mess with them, when this occurs they become mindless drones unable to make a decision with out the collective group think
(3)No I don't feel I am sabatoging anybody's said so called sobriety. I am merely helping them see the truth. "They have free choice whether to take the red pill or the blue one..." (Matrix Joke)
(4) You are totally right about it being like religion, hell it is one

CULT defined

(1)  a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
(2) a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator

Dogma defined

Dogma defined

1. A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
2. An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered gmato be absolutely true. See Synonyms at doctrine.
3. A principle or belief or a group of them:

Back to topic
(5) And yes if I were a scientist and I found there was no existance of creator or omnipotent God, by all means people should be informed.. to hold back information is just is to basically lie, remember in AA if the person has the ability to be honest with himself he too can recover.. True statement... How ever they addopted it I use this line too to help people to wake up from their sleep. As long as a person is plugged into the collective conscious as a group it makes it a hard to make decisions for ones own self... this is a form of independence.

Independence defined

(1) The state or quality of being independent; freedom from dependence; exemption from reliance on, or control by, others; self-subsistence or maintenance; direction of one's own affairs without interference.

Max ... I hope this answered most of your questions..

Peace and much healing
 :peace: