is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised?

[BuzzKill]

http://http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html

[IslamIsViolent]

Here's his most recent speech on the GZ mosque (posted about 11 hours ago):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJQ4bwGPRuk

A lecture to athists who disagree with his criticism of Islam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC35KHoI6_E

"What I know about Islam"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyNQ1zc-q74

One entitled "Wake Up America"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjSjpNe1-Vc

Another good one by a different guy (Thunderf00t):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApmnezyPSMc

[ajax13]

http://http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html

I was neither surprised, nor astonished when the speaker lied within the first minute of the video when he stated that the facility was being built a few yards from ground zero.  Since this is not the case, one is left to ask why the speaker is lying.

[IslamIsViolent]

I was neither surprised, nor astonished when the speaker lied within the first minute of the video when he stated that the facility was being built a few yards from ground zero.  Since this is not the case, one is left to ask why the speaker is lying.

It's a figure of speech.  It is very close to GZ, however.

[ajax13]

Nope.  A few yards is not a figure of speech, it is a description of a given spatial relationship, and in this case it is a false description.  So one is left to ponder the motivation behind the deception.

[IslamIsViolent]

Nope.  A few yards is not a figure of speech, it is a description of a given spatial relationship, and in this case it is a false description.  So one is left to ponder the motivation behind the deception.

I'm a few inches from tearing my hair out at your idiocy.

[ajax13]

Zero tolerance for Hasbara here, partner.  The Cordoba House is not being built a few yards from "ground zero".  To say that it is is a lie, and it follows that one must ask why the speaker is lying.

[IslamIsViolent]

* The Mosque is being built as close to Ground Zero as possible.

* It's being called "Cordoba" after the Cordoba mosque built immediately after Islam's conquest of spain.

* The source of funding for the mosque is unknown, meaning It's likely a Saudi funded mosque which will preach Wahhabism.

* The Imam for the mosque does not consider Hamas a terrorist organization and blames the US for 9/11.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to build the mosque.  I'm just saying it's an extremely offensive thing to build so close to a place so many died because of Islam...  Not by those who took the commands of Muhammad out of context, but by those who followed them to the letter.

[IslamIsViolent]

Even some American Muslims (in name only, obviously) find the concept offensive:

Iraqi Columnist in Arab Liberal Online Daily Elaph: The Hostile and Provocative Name Chosen for the Planned Ground Zero Cordoba Mosque Symbolizes Dreams of Expansion and Invasion of the Territory of the Other

Iraqi-American columnist Khudhayr Taher published an article in the Arab online liberal daily Elaph.com on May 18, 2010 in which he warns against the desire to turn the U.S. into a Muslim country. Taher called upon the American administration to ban the building of mosques, and especially the Cordoba Mosque, planned for construction near Ground Zero in New York, because, he says, these mosques pose a danger to the security of the U.S. as they are centers for spreading extremist and terrorist ideas.
Following is a translation of excerpts from the article:
"In these days, the issue of the Muslim decision to build a mosque near the place where the crime of the cowardly September 11 terrorist attacks took place has come up. We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque. It is well known that the first Cordoba Mosque was built by Muslims in a city in Spain, after they occupied this Christian country, killing its men and capturing its women to bring them to Arab countries as slaves and servants to serve their sexual pleasure. The Arabs and Muslims have never ceased to take pride and bask in the glory of this imperialist history, which they consider to be a symbol of their strength and power, and they are unashamed of the fact that the annals [of their history] are full of shameful crimes.
"Today, it seems as though some Muslims in America are enamored of the dream of bringing back this ugly imperialist Muslim history, which is based on occupying peaceful peoples, on trying to force them to change their religious beliefs by the sword, on killing the men, and on abducting the women from their homes and bringing them to their own countries. Choosing the name 'Cordoba House' for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…
"New York has many mosques, for Sunnis and for Shiites. Of course there is a significant infiltration of extremist terrorist ideology among some of the Sunnis, and likewise there is a significant infiltration of the Iranian intelligence [apparatus] among some of the Shi'ites. This infiltration, both among the Sunnis and among the Shi'ites, has spread across the U.S. New York State has many mosques, and doesn't need any more of them – not to mention that for work reasons Muslims do not attend mosque every day, but only on Saturdays and Sundays. Therefore, the Muslims have no real need for the construction of this mosque, which constitutes a provocation against the sensibilities of the Americans and a reminder for them of the Muslim imperialism in Spain and of the acts it committed against the Christians – such as murder, pillage, taking captives, and aggression against women.
"As a Muslim and as an American citizen, I hope that the U.S. government will issue a decision to confiscate the funds designated for the construction of this mosque, and to transfer them to a budget for rebuilding the towers of the World Trade Center in New York, [and also to] ban the building of [additional] mosques in the U.S., because there is no real need for them. Also, [we must] take into account the danger that they [i.e. the mosques] pose because they are hothouses for extremist terrorist ideology and for hatred of the other, and because they carry out open missionary activities considered a violation of the freedom and religion of others."

source:
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4225.htm

[ajax13]

So Hasbaranik, back to the original post in this thread and the immediately apparent attempt at manipulating the audience with false information.  Why would the speaker lie about the location of the facility, claiming that is a few yards from "ground zero", when this is simply not true?  We know it's a lie, the question that remains to be answered is why the man in the video was lying.

[BuzzKill]

Perhaps to this British citizen a couple of blocks means a few yards - it is a relative term unless one is actually taking a measurement, and a Brit would not use yards so possibly this term has little more precise meaning to him than kilometer does for me.

One thing is for sure he is not lying, but the Islamic cleric IS because this is what his prophet tells him he must do when dealing with infidels'; because Islame is at war with all others and war is deceit.  They are Liars and murderers and theives of freedom, prosperity and culture.

I hope every pig farmer in the nation is storing up great buckets of swine blood and refuse to dump all over the threshold of this monstrosity should they ever actually attempt to build it.

[ajax13]

A few yards is a false representation of the geographic relationship of the facility to "ground zero".  The man is lying to manipulate the viewer.  The question remains, what is the purpose of this manipulation?

[Anne Bonney]

They have a right to build it where they want.    People have a right to tell them they think it's in poor taste and will do nothing to further relations.  People don't have a right to attempt to get the government to stop it just because it's "offensive".  Just as in the instances of KKK rallies.  The Constitution and Bill of Rights are there to protect freedoms.  Sometimes that includes people saying or doing things we don't like.

[BuzzKill]

No one is disputing they have a right to build. The city counsel did have a right to stop its going up on that spot if they felt the building to be demolished was of historical significance. They said it is not. So, they can build. The governor or mayor or president have no say in the matter. All they can do is express an opinion which they have done, and which I and many others find to be disturbingly ignorant and politically correct to a ridiculous degree.

We have got to get real with regard to what Islam is. We have got to understand this monstrosity is an declaration of Victory; an out-post and command center in the war against the infidel.
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/08/g ... osque.html

Liberal America can not afford to be warm and fuzzy on the issue of Islam. Cold, hard, very unpleasant facts must be faced. They must admit and acknowledge the concept of taqqiya and Abrogation and what these concepts mean for us, the Infidel, when dealing with them - the Islamic faithful.

For you ajax: "THE FACTS: As noted above, it is not unreasonable to characterize the site as being “at” Ground Zero, given that it was one of the buildings damaged in the 9/11 attack, is within the zone over which the remains of the murdered were scattered and has been called by the promoter of the initiative himself “the Ground Zero mosque.”

http://bigjournalism.com/fgaffney/2010/ ... ro-mosque/

see also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQOCcx5V9RI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdX1qpCt ... re=related

and just for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmffgIqlAYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI9GLSGy ... r_embedded

Finely I'd like to suggest: Read the following, and if it seems reasonable to you sign it -
http://www.groundzerodeclaration.org/th ... claration/

[Anne Bonney]

No one is disputing they have a right to build.

Oh yes they are.  And many of them are putting pressure on the gov't to stop it.  And if it's just about the location, as many of the protesters say, why are Mosques in Tennessee and other states being protested?  Hell, the one in Tennessee was just burned down.  Why are there Q'uran burnings?  How far away is far enough?  It's being labeled as the "ground zero" Mosque even though it's a full 2 blocks (and NYC blocks at that) away from 'ground zero'.

And sorry, Christianity isn't so peaceful itself.  Crusades?  Inquisition?  Abortion clinic bombings?  Doctor killings?  The Murrah building in Oklahoma City?   Now we've got Q'uran burning and Mosque destruction.

We have religious freedom in this country.  It applies to all religions, not just Christianity or the ones we like.